WTKA Roundtable 5/12/2022: Put That Beer Under Your Coats!
Things discussed:
- Some people on this podcast have never seen Brady Bunch, or Seinfeld, or both!
- Long NIL discussion: The NCAA is in "We gotta do something" mode but have no ability to actually do something.
- They can't do anything because they're hamstrung by their own legal arguments that deny them a way to have players sign contracts, and hamstrung by their enforcement mechanism which is the schools investigate their own.
- How do you even define "inducements"? What if Michigan gives every player a Corvette because this is the school where the people who engineer American automobiles go and that's a good marketing strategy for the Big Three?
- Craig: The NCAA's stance here is "Please hide your beers or we'll tell you to hide your beers!"
- What's the college model? Brian: the D3 level is still that model. Seth: Even that is still an exchange of goods (degree) for services. Why draw lines in the first place?
- There are needs for control. Capping salaries at different levels for competitive balance. Having players sign contracts so they can't be poached, because that's not going to stop.
- Caleb Houstan: Why did he pull out of the combine? Who's offering to draft him on workouts? Or is something else going on?
Sam's sitdown with Saddi and Phil: Part 1, Part 2, Part 3.
You can catch the entire episode on Michigan Insider's podcast stream.
Segment two is available here. And you can watch the video here:
The Usual Links:
- Helpful iTunes subscribe link
- General podcast feed link
- Direct download link (right-click/save as)
- What's with the theme music?
You have an NBA out; you don't have a Bobby Hurley out.
I haven't had the chance to listen to this yet, but I'll add this thought: the NCAA needs a players' union to negotiate with. The current status quo--guys leaving after one year to go to another school for NIL money--is going to hurt college sports in a way that damages everyone. And the NCAA needs someone to bargain with re: how to stop that while making it worth the players' while.
Right on the money Erik.
who was the B1G player being paid by an NBA player?
I bet the NBA player is Lebron
I haven’t listened to the recording yet, but Magic Johnson is a big Sparty booster and Steve Smith gave MSU several millions. I wouldn’t be surprised to find out they have a well-ingrained pay it forward culture. Magic pays Smith, Smith pays Draymond, Draymond pays…
The rumor was always that Draymond Green paid for Miles Bridges to come back for his sophomore year to partner with Jaren Jackson Jr. to bring a title to MSU. Too bad they lost in the first round.
DIII is not an exchange of goods for services as it relates to athletics. DIII is prohibited from having athletic scholarships and all scholarships they do utilize are strictly on what amounts to an academic chart for GPA and SAT/ACT scores. find where you are on the chart and that is your scholarship.
i would also suggest that FCS/DI and DII are still pretty pure forms of college football in that you still have athletic scholarships but there is basically no monetary incentive beyond that. i am not aware of any institution in those ranks making any signif money from their football team, and i would hazard a guess almost all are supplemented by the general account of the respective schools. could there be a little payola for recruits? sure, but it'd be tiny compared to what's going on in the P5.
"DIII is prohibited from having athletic scholarships and all scholarships they do utilize are strictly on what amounts to an academic chart for GPA and SAT/ACT scores."
Saying this doesn't make it true. Even 25 years ago DIII schools were using discretionary financial aid packages to bring in athletes they wanted.
Wabash College offered two of my best high school friends different aid packages, despite their academic achievements being nearly identical. The one with slightly worse testing scores was a fringe D1 runner being lightly recruited by schools like Purdue and IU. He got nearly 25% more "Presidential Scholarship" funds than the other guy who was a bog-standard baseball player.
I've watched the same thing happen time and again at DIII & NAIA schools over the last 15 years I've been coaching high school sports.
Stick to the topic. Scholarships, not financial aid packages. Besides, debt is not a great incentive.
I’ve coached a long time, and have kids who are college athletes. It’s possible I might know of what I speak.
I guess Shop Smart's point is athletes are helped in DIII via "regular scholarships" even though any preferential treatment is forbidden! That does not negate your experience either.
"I’ve coached a long time, and have kids who are college athletes. It’s possible I might know of what I speak."
Was that supposed to end the conversation?
I don't understand what you're saying. Financial aid packages are effectively scholarships for playing sports without calling them that. In soccer, where my son plays, it is actually almost preferred for kids to go to DIII instead of D1. Why? Because in D1 there are very few scholarships to go around for soccer and most kids get a small portion. In D3 you can get a nice financial aid package that is not entirely based on your test scores or GPA.
Obviously for the most part this is still closer to the intended amateurism model than D1, but let's not pretend all of the kids going to Podunk State A&M and on the football team got in or pay the same tuition because of their AP classes.
Additionally, even at lower-level schools it is often very restrictive for those athletes to maintain or choose their major. I know a girl who was a soccer player at Illinois St. and the coaches there pushed her to change her major because what she was studying took more time and some labs would conflict with the occasional practice. Instead, she transferred and quit soccer.
Lots of wheeling spinning about the NCAA and Houstan, and yet lots of fun.
SAY 👏🏻 XAVIER 👏🏻 WORTHY’S 👏🏻 NAME 👏🏻
Texas tampered with Xavier Worthy. What do you think Michigan could do about it?
Oh nothing at all. My post was meant to be silly, sorry if it didn't come across that way
One other market shift that I wonder about in the context of NIL and the portal (at least for the worst offender, basketball) is changing the draft rules and relationship with the NBA. The NFL requires 3-years in college, the MLB and NHL have draft-and-follow policies in place with the NCAA, but the NBA is a free-for-all with only the 1-year from high school rule.
That 1-year rule has a direct impact on the large number of kids declaring for the draft or entering the portal because everyone wants the quick pathway to the league. Look at Caleb's situation for a minute. Let's assume a team has given him some sort of "promise" that if he's available in the 2nd round or as an UDFA they'll sign him to at least a 2-way deal. That may be reason enough for him to take his chances with the league instead of risking another year of college. But what if he already knew who had his rights? What if that team could work with him in the offseason and let him know where he stood so he can come back another year? That's what our hockey draft picks did.
Comments