WTKA Roundtable 11/29/2018: What Are We Doing Here?
I broke it up by times so you could skip past the bad thing if you don't want to talk about the bad thing.
Things discussed:
1. Disaster in Columbus (at 1:00)
- Ed rips on Don Brown for the South Carolina game
- 2016 and 2017 Michigan vastly out-schemed Ohio State, so it's not an overall pattern.
- The problem is Michigan had the #1 defense so couldn't anticipate their flaws. At halftime, fine, you can't get to the quarterback and can't live with Watson anymore. Change it up!
- OSU probably going back to being a Tate Martell offense next year
- Catch three balls.
- Bowl destination?
2. Glory in Crisler (at 19:51)
- Too soon to talk Monday Night
- Why was Michigan State the consensus pick for the B1G? This year's is a better team than last year's.
- Craig: Teske was the player of the game: UNC didn't want anything to do with under the basket. Brian: No it's CM. Sam: No it's Iggy. Wait we all forgot Livers
- Turned it into a halfcourt game.
- Versus last Novembers
- Purdue preview
You can catch the entire episode on Michigan Insider's podcast stream on Podbean.
Segment two is here. Segment three is here.
THE USUAL LINKS
- Helpful iTunes subscribe link
- General podcast feed link
- Direct download link
- What's with the theme music?
"I turn on the game and I'm like who is this 60 year old freshman?
November 30th, 2018 at 10:45 AM ^
Ed rips on Don Brown for the South Carolina game: Think defense got tired, but yea they attacked the safeties for long TDs. Ed is not totally incorrect. You can pass on this D (see State, Ohio)
2016 and 2017 Michigan vastly out-schemed Ohio State, so it's not an overall pattern: True
The problem is Michigan had the #1 defense so couldn't anticipate their flaws. At halftime, fine, you can't get to the quarterback and can't live with Watson anymore: Terrible argument. Thats what all the LSA students say when they see and engineering exam - hey I didn't study so I don't know how to problem solve. Welcome to Umich enginnering b!tch. Point being, coache's job to anticipate and prepare team. This was a failure. No two ways about it.
OSU probably going back to being a Tate Martell offense next year: Likely, but is Haskins gone for sure? When the hell is Michigan going to catch a break? Who pissed off god? The one time in few years M is better TEAM OSU has record breaking passing QB. FML.
Catch three balls: If and or buts...yea lets not do this.
Bowl destination: Rose. Otherwise, blah.
November 30th, 2018 at 10:51 AM ^
Yeah we literally couldn't stop them, those three drops would have made the game slightly more interesting in the third quarter but not going to flip that game
November 30th, 2018 at 2:18 PM ^
Precisely. Pointing to a couple of dropped passes that could've increased our point total from 39 to 49? We gave up 62 points! I still can't believe that we went to Columbus, with the best team we've fielded in 12 years, scored 39 points, and got blown out. Defense plays to form and 39 points gives us a nice 2 score victory.
Don Brown has a lot to chew on over the winter.
November 30th, 2018 at 12:20 PM ^
The 3 drops thing is making me insane. A major problem with Michigans offense this season was they want all in on efficiency over explosiveness. Which meant they had to have 11 guys executing on 3 or 4 plays to get a first down. Any mistake, penalty, missed block, dropped pass meant the end of the drive. Then they had to do that for 10+ consecutive plays to consistently score points. Add in to that they are throwing to 3 different TE's frequently. Which meant any drop by any of 3 guys whose nominal primary objective on the field is blocking means the end of the drive. You can do that if you can spend the first half plus scuffling and throwing body blows and still be in the game. Michigan couldn't really do that in either loss. Recall when Eubanks dropping a pass "doomed" the first half of the NW game? Michigan got the lucky kickoff fumble that made the first half score close. But OSU immediately went back to gashing the D and Michigan went back to line plunging and throwing critical short passes to this or that TE.
If you're complaining that Funchess or Braylon or whoever dropped the critical pass then OK. At least, it was your best player. If you're complaining that TE1, TE2, or TE3 dropped a random pass in the middle of the game. Then not OK. That is college football and your scheme has got to account for it.
Why aren't they throwing the ball to the WR (whose primary reason on the field is to catch the ball?)
I won't say the coaches were overconfident but the game did look as if the coaches were confident to the point of complacency. They more or less thought if they rolled at exactly what they'd done every other game that would be good enough.
I would say at this point, any fan, coach, or player who thinks Michigan can do that and feel confident about beating OSU, particularly in Columbus, is deluding themselves.
November 30th, 2018 at 12:37 PM ^
Yeah its like Michigan fans are just ignoring the two drops OSU had or the couple of times Haskins missed wide open guys. Nobody talks about those hiccups because the OSU offense was gaining 8 yards a play rather than running it up the middle twice and for wasted downs to start every drive.
November 30th, 2018 at 2:27 PM ^
I won't say the coaches were overconfident but the game did look as if the coaches were confident to the point of complacency. They more or less thought if they rolled at exactly what they'd done every other game that would be good enough.
It certainly flew in the face of Harbaugh's comments leading up to The Game that they prepare for OSU all season. I didn't see a lot of innovation in their scheme on either side of the ball.
December 1st, 2018 at 2:48 PM ^
With all due respect, TE's should be expected to execute simple assignments like catching a football. That does not fall under the rubric of executing a complex play perfectly from the standpoint of all 11 players getting their assignments right.
December 1st, 2018 at 2:41 PM ^
God, not god.
November 30th, 2018 at 10:50 AM ^
I disagree that OSU played like shit all year. Their defense sucked all year, their offense was a top 5 unit and people ignored that going in.
November 30th, 2018 at 11:07 AM ^
Haskins had one of the best years statistically in the history of the B1G. Their offense was Big 12 esque.
November 30th, 2018 at 10:55 AM ^
No dead commie references from Craig Ross this week. I am disappoint.
November 30th, 2018 at 3:54 PM ^
Sorry. I thought old, dour Marxists was getting stale.
I try not to be boring---I don't argue I succeed---but I have to earn a living and this radio thing (I don't get paid; not saying I should get paid) takes time---though I can appreciate those who might say "you actually prep for that?"
November 30th, 2018 at 6:06 PM ^
You're anything but boring, Craig. Love your insight.
November 30th, 2018 at 11:06 AM ^
Ed Feng was particularly moronic in this episode.
He kept insisting that the computers say UM has a 2% chance at the CFP, so UM must have a shot still. When in fact, there is literally no scenario in which UM is in.
What separates Ed from other numbers guys at say, Fangraphs or 538, is that they are able to put numbers in context, understanding that the math is only part of the story. Ed just points at a spreadsheet and says “math.” He doesn’t understand football; he doesn’t even seem to understand the point he’s trying to make half the time.
November 30th, 2018 at 11:16 AM ^
If Georgia, OU, OSU, and UCF all lose we technically could get in. Its stupid and won't happen but there is in fact a chance.
November 30th, 2018 at 3:58 PM ^
Recall some context. I saw the ESPN site saying UM had a 2% chance to make the playoffs. I thought this was a joke, completely absurd, since I couldn't think of any plausible or even possible scenario where UM got in.
So I asked Ed about it. He doesn't believe it is 2% either, or so I think. But he tried to outline where this number might have come from. I think Ed would agree with your comment that "there is literally no scenario in which UM is in..." but he was trying to back-door where this 2% came from.
November 30th, 2018 at 11:19 AM ^
What upsets me about the coaching is OSU was able to completely revamp their offense over one off season and get better by meeting the strengths of their players and we take an entire off season and year of Patterson and run an offense in the OSU that looks exactly the same as it does with any other QB
November 30th, 2018 at 11:20 AM ^
Brian's continued refusal to discuss the Ohio state game is childish.
I get it. We were all upset. My weekend was somewhat ruined. But it's been a week. Get some exercise, meditate, go back and analyze.
Nobody died, bro.
November 30th, 2018 at 11:32 AM ^
Concur... It always amazes me how people can get so wrapped up that they shut down. Grow the fuck up, already. I don't know why it amazes me - shit happens so often, and the response is always so poor, that I should be used to it by now. Whatever, the macro-view of Michigan's football world is hella better than it was 4 years ago, and is still trending up.
So fuck off, whiny bitches.
November 30th, 2018 at 11:32 AM ^
Don't need a whole UFR, but I really wish someone who has been reviewing defensive plays all year, could give us an assessment of Chase's ability to rush post injury.
Also, how much Bush and Long's departure hurt the defense. (Game was close until they went out.)
November 30th, 2018 at 1:28 PM ^
I'm glad to see someone else saying this and I'm honestly surprised there's not a horde of MGoSycophants attacking you. I honestly thought this entire thing was exceptionally childish. Even is Ed is wrong, it's still completely inappropriate to treat someone the way Brian did on the air and makes Brian look worse for it.
I love this blog and have been coming here for years before I created my account but it's getting harder to listen to someone who has to constantly remind people that he's the smartest person in the room.
November 30th, 2018 at 11:26 AM ^
Ed and Brian seem to be at odds with each other during this discussion, on multiple topics. Is this a well known issue or just emotions getting the better of them?
November 30th, 2018 at 11:33 AM ^
Well known. Brian has a long held view of contempt regarding Ed. Don't know why... Guess personalities just clash, or some such BS...
November 30th, 2018 at 11:40 AM ^
Ah, ok. I wasn't aware and I thought I caught some contempt. I've listened to this segment quite a bit, but it definitely stuck out this time. Thanks.
November 30th, 2018 at 11:36 AM ^
Brian is kind of an asshole and condescending to anyone who disagrees with him and nobody else pushes back on him other than Ed
Ed is also childish and thinks his numbers mean way more than they do. So you get what you get between the two of them
November 30th, 2018 at 4:40 PM ^
Emotions getting the better of them.
Brian doesn't suffer fools easily, even if it is on a stray comment/belief about an inconsequential bowl game. He has trouble discerning the dancer from the dance. As do we all, at times. Brian probably is, most of the time, the smartest person in the room about UM football, where this means he invests more time in it than any of us who aren't coaches and where he is damned smart to begin with. We can all be this way about something we have invested in and have become expert about. I have learned, on one or two topics (not football, that's for sure) it is wise to just roll my eyes---and try to not let others see it.
But Brian, for his occasional prickliness, is a kind and generous man. He is a good person who sometimes has a limited veneer surrounding his emotions. He takes UM football seriously, maybe too seriously, and the scars and cuts are more painful for him than for others. Still, I think some of this is shtik.
Ed is no dope, of course. He has a PHD from Stanford but his sports knowledge is more diffuse than UM football. Soccer, the NBA, the NFL, others. He is more of a sports generalist. Ed is a terrific man, a good friend, and I can't say enough positive about him. I feel blessed to share an hour every week with Ed and Brian.
I thought, for years, we had maybe 10 listeners. Even my Mom doesn't listen. But this is family, a family of UM diehards, so these occasional tiffs might take more out of all us---listeners and direct participants---than maybe it would if this was some slick or "professional" production. And, maybe, the fact the hour is so unvarnished---sometimes awkward and stupid (I stand at the head of the class in both)---is why it appeals to some. I concede I have said some really stupid shit. But maybe that's part of the value of this sort of program. I dunno.
But I do know this business of Michigan football really is the business of caring. And caring with others in this community---the chance to high five those carrying the same hopes. And in this process, maybe emotions get raw. That's OK, because this is all really is about hope.
Emo? I don't care.
Next year we will party like it is 1999.
Honest.
CR
November 30th, 2018 at 1:20 PM ^
Sometimes I hear things on that station that makes me want to rip my hair out.
"At halftime I knew we weren't stopping Ohio State's offense"
Think about that for a second. How did TCU, Penn State, Indiana, Minnesota, Purdue, Nebraska, and Maryland give the Buckeyes a better game than we did? Do they have a better defense? Nope. Do they have superior athletes? Nope. Do they have better coaches? No. What they had was a a faster paced offense that took advantage of OSU's defense but more importantly wore on their whole team, mentally.
What does an opponents faster paced offense have to do with stopping Ohio's State's offense? Because they're 18-22 year old kids.
What the **** am I talking about?
I'll tell you. When you get into a game where one of your units isn't performing, it effects the other units. When your offense scores but your defense goes out and let the other team drive down the field to score themselves, it's a mental gut punch. Your team is looking for a spark - something that creates an advantage. That's why turnovers are considered Sudden Change and it's also why teams celebrate takeaways so much. It's a tactical and mental advantage.
You don't need any further proof than our game last Saturday. There's a dropped touchdown in the first half that would have probably sent the teams to halftime tied. Instead, our team doesn't get that touchdown AND allows Ohio State to march 70 yards for a FG and a 5 point lead.
In the second half, the defense does its job again by holding OSU to a field goal. How does the offense respond? By dropping another pass. And then there's a blocked FG. And then there's an interceptions. How does that effect the defense? They let Paris Campbell sprint around the edge for a touchdown on their first play of the drive. This shit wears on the players, and that's a fact. They already know Ohio State is playing better than anything they've shown on film. And they have the most hostile crowd in the Big Ten all up in their ass. Throw in dropped passes and a blocked punt, and you can forget about it.
Those teams I mentioned above have inferior talent, there's no question about it. But their players played way above themselves because they FELT like they were in the game the entire way. When Ohio State scored, their team came back and scored. That inspires kids. That shit is real. Anyone who says otherwise hasn't played sports.
Sorry for rant.
November 30th, 2018 at 4:30 PM ^
The guys spent a segment discussing how will the defense defend teams when they can't get pressure such as what happened against OSU this season. We had these same discussions last year after PSU and Brown said they did too much man and didn't practice enough zone. Why didn't we carry that over and make an adjustment at some point during the OSU game?
December 1st, 2018 at 2:51 PM ^
The idea that there is some other defensive scheme that Michigan could have gone to seems flawed. They did change their coverage, but it didn't matter. It generally doesn't matter what scheme you play if there is no pressure on the QB.
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