was it all a crazy plot to get what he wanted? "A way to exceed expectations is to manage them [laughs]. We were in a situation where it was absolutely unclear what the ultimate decision was going to be and I wanted to make that known that it was unclear and the fan reaction was very helpful and very important."
A Quick List Of Potential Defensive Coordinators
In no particular order:
Jeff Casteel, West Virginia DC. Casteel passed up the opportunity to follow Rodriguez to Ann Arbor last fall, but maybe a year of life under Bill Stewart—and the job security that goes along with that—might have changed his mind.
Many will be skeptical of the 3-3-5, but West Virginia finished 8th and 9th in scoring defense the past two years, though yardage was considerably worse (35th) this year. I also note that the recruiting class has an ton of safety/OLB types (Jones, Hawthorne, Gordon, Emilien, Bell, maybe the other Gordon) that are 4-5 spots on the field in the 3-3-5.
Corwin Brown, Notre Dame DC. Brown is a Michigan alum that Charlie Weis chose to be his defensive coordinator; before that he was an NFL DBs coach. In Brown's time at ND he's killed Chicago recruiting and racked up kind of eh results on the field. This year ND was 38th in total defense, 43rd in scoring. They were 65th in yardage in Brown's first season, but given the crater that was Notre Dame's offense it's hard to pass any judgments.
Brown's a high risk, high upside kind of guy. He'd be a dynamite recruiter if his returns from ND are any indication, but he's only been a DC for two years and hasn't exactly torn it up. More damningly, the defenses Notre Dame has run against Michigan the last two years haven't made any sense: ND sits back in a cover-two shell and lets running backs race up and down the field against them even with Ryan Mallett and Steven Threet the opposing quarterbacks. I guess it made sense this year once Notre Dame raced out to that lead. In 2007? Not so much.
Also, ND brought in TAH-NOO-TAH this offseason to be the "linebackers coach," but it seemed like co-coordinatorship at best. How in control of ND's D was he? Also also, he reportedly dissed Michigan when recruiting some kid, though he later denied he said such a thing.
Also also also: he has a giant umwellyouknow.
John Chavis, former Tennessee DC. Currently unemployed, Chavis was Tennessee's defensive coordinator since 1995. A pissed off Johnny Majors took a shot at Fulmer by praising Chavis:
“Frankly, I think (defensive coordinator) John Chavis has saved his job for 10 years.”
So there's that. In the twilight of the Fulmer era Tennessee was wildly variable on D: 4th in yardage last year, 70th in 2007, 50th in 2006.
Chavis is old and kind of looks like Gittleson so probably won't be a bang-up recruiter but the guy knows his way around a defense.
Paul Rhoads, former Auburn DC. For fans of irony this is choice A1, as Rhoads was Pittsburgh's defensive coordinator in 2007 when the Panthers held a mostly Pat-White-less West Virginia team to nine points and precipitated the string of events that ended with Rodriguez taking the Michigan job.
Auburn's defense was 27th in yardage and 15th in scoring this year despite taking the field opposite and offense that was the functional equivalent of Michigan's. That chaos butterfly of a Pitt defense was fifth in yardage and (somehow) 42nd in scoring. Wikipedia on Rhoads' Panther career:
In 2000, Rhoads was hired as the defensive coordinator for the Pittsburgh Panthers by Walt Harris. In his first season, Rhoads was credited with improving the team's defense to their best performance since 1980. In 2001, his defensive unit ranked among the nation's top 30 in five different categories at season's end. Additionally, Pitt finished with 38 quarterback sacks. In 2002, the Panthers defense ranked among the nation's top 25 in an impressive seven different categories. In 2004, Pitt ranked ninth nationally with 17 interceptions and Rhoads was kept on staff by new head coach Dave Wannstedt. That decision proved wise as by then end of the 2005 season, Pitt was ranked second nationally in pass defense (yielding just 152.82 yards per game) and sixth in pass efficiency defense with a 99.36 rating. In 2006, Sporting News named Rhoads the Big East's best defensive coordinator. In 2007, Rhoads' defense was among the nation's leaders in various categories, finishing fifth nationally in total defense (allowing just 297.7 yards per games) and third nationally in pass defense (allowing just 167.3 yards per game). While the team finished 5–7, they ended on a high note by holding then-#2 ranked rival West Virginia to a season-low nine points in a 13-9 victory in the Backyard Brawl, limiting the Mountaineers high-powered offense to 183 yards (292 yards below their average).
Even setting aside the irony, Rhoads appears to be a good choice. He has eight years of DC experience, most of which is impressive. He's a guy Rodriguez has gone up against a half-dozen times, so there's some familiarity between the two coaches. He's young enough (41) to be an energetic, motivated recruiter. A guy like Tommy Tuberville surveyed the nation after losing Will Muschamp and picked him out, and Tuberville can find himself some defensive coordinators.
Hell… what about Tommy Tuberville, former Auburn head coach? Tuberville may want to sit on the sidelines for a while or whatever, but the parade of defensive coordinators that worked their way through Auburn never seemed to have much impact on the fortunes of the D. Tuberville was a DC for one year at Texas A&M before getting the Ole Miss job.
Eh, this one's pretty far-fetched.
Vance Bedford, Florida DBs coach. You know Vance from his two stints as Michigan's DB coach; those sandwiched an up-and-down career as Oklahoma State's defensive coordinator. This year he's vastly improved a previously porous Florida secondary.
But… no. Bedford's last stint as a DC ended in ignominy and controversy after he called Okie State fans "roaches" and then wouldn't back away from it. We all know how that sort of comment would play in this media environment. Also he wasn't a good DC; as long as Rhoads and Chavis are out there there's no reason to go back to a guy who didn't do well in a coordinator role before.
The Orgeron. Come on. You know you want him.
Chris Spielman. I'm kidding. Okay, I'm half-kidding.
So, who do I like?
Of the listed: Rhoads. He's got a good track record and could revive Michigan's Pittsburgh-area recruiting. After that, probably Corwin Brown, actually, for recruiting/piss off ND/Michigan alum issues.
Just a point about Rhoads
PItt did not hold a "mostly Pat White-less WVU team to nine points". Pat White played the majority of the game. This is addressed here: http://pantherrants.blogspot.com/2008/01/and-i-will-strike-down-upon-the...
as we've grown a little tired of the perception that we lucked out that day.
Also, wish for Rhoads at your own peril. That's all we'll say about that.
December 17th, 2008 at 3:05 PM
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Why wait until now to fire
Why wait until now to fire Shafer? Their season ended almost a month ago. And he didn't show up to the last two recruiting weekends, so why wait until now to announce? Is this about the right time to make an announcement like this?
IMHE
Do a little bit of research
Do a little bit of research on Rhoads, people at Pitt weren't all that thrilled with him. Some stats:
2000 ----- 97 --------------- 2.6
2001 ----- 118 -------------- 3.0
2002 ----- 117 -------------- 3.2
2003 ----- 185 -------------- 4.5
2004 ----- 140 -------------- 3.8
2005 ----- 185 -------------- 4.3
That's during his tenure at Pitt. That's a pretty big increase from beginning to end.
Also, he seems to be a coach that doesn't want to give up the "big play". We saw a lot of those this year, but I think the last thing people want to do around here is give up our agressiveness. It may work, and if he's the choice then it's probably an alright move, but I'd probably choose Casteel over Rhoads, cronyism or not.
Stats from this article: http://www.fanhouse.com/2006/08/31/rhoads-on-the-defense/
cronyism
people should be a bit more concerned about casteel. im not doubting hes a good coach, there just seems to be better people out there. wvu was 47th in rush defense 35 in total defense and 38 in pass defense. granted they were 9th in scoring defense, but everything else seems meh. and this was in the big east. tennesee, for the record, was much better in those categories. (according to http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/natlRank.jsp?year=2008&div=IA&site=org)
im just saying why wouldnt we go after the best guy out there that we could get?
people are going to say rich should go out and get his guys that are gonna run the 3-3-5, but isnt there anyone else worried about this?
I read the Meat Market, a
I read the Meat Market, a book about Orgeron's recruiting as a head coach at Ole Miss, and the guy sounds like a great recruiter who would help in places like Miss., La, Florida, etc. He probably wouldn't mind using a DC job again to build up his credibility a bit before taking another shot as a HC. Plus, he has a track record of pumping out top DLs and linebackers at places like USC and Miami. Probably not going to happen, but I like him the same as Rhoads.
ohhh scary...(for Bleeding Blue)
I put the avatar up there as a joke. Enough people assumed that my username was from the movie, which it wasnt...so i just put that photo up anyway...cause people assume certain things on the surface.
Back to Shafer, I do think he got a raw deal and RR had better have some big plan in store for a replacement to get the defense together, and not lose too many more recruits.
And yes, I have supported RR since day 1, but there are times when I have to question whether he really has a worthwhile plan in place...or is just grasping at straws trying to keep himself a float. I hope the former not the later for sure. I want him to succeed...but it seems to me that Shafer was not the problem as much as indecision and too-many-chiefs was.
I stand by what I said about Gibson btw. No matter how hard the guy works, as you put it...his safetys kept repeating the same stupid fking mistakes all season long, over and over.... that to me, is poor coaching.... those kids were not drilled enough to know their responsibilities 100% cold, which was the root of their problems, not athleticism. Blame Shafer for that? go ahead...but a position coach is first in-line imo, and enough reports have surfaced about Gibbys relationship with RR to suggest that RR would always look elsewhere rather than lay it to Gibby.
Just want to leave you with one of many examples: The long 57 yd TD pass Ill had in the 3rd quarter that broke the game open. Stewart was playing halves, cover 2...straight on the hash and he 1) failed to recognize his responsibility in time 2) took a bad angle at the WR on the sideline route (probably because he was too late in recognition) and 3)misplayed the play by trying to get to the ball rather than playing the receiver and making a tackle which would have saved an extra 30 yds and a TD.
Yes, you CAN coach Safetys to not play like that...you can (but do you get through to them by drilling it in to their technique?)...there were many other examples by other guys, similar to that all season long. We could go on and on discussing why these safetys sucked...
Strictly business...Not personal.
oh no
where to start....
Guess I struck a chord there with the whole angry thing.
no horseheads in my bed please - kthx
"We could go on and on discussing why these safetys sucked..." yes we could, but the problem I have is this quote from you:
"and that stupid fucking worthless lackey Gibson to keep his job as DB coach."
Also, with regard to RR
"but there are times when I have to question whether he really has a worthwhile plan in place...or is just grasping at straws trying to keep himself a float" ummm, no grasping. Definite plan: see Barwis+Godfather of the Spread+3-3-5 =domination in 2010 and beyond.
Stats from WVU defense in 2007: 6th in Defense nationally, 15th in pass defense and 29th in pass efficiency defense. That's, uh, pretty good.
Did I question wtf was going on with the D this year? yes
Have I personally attacked any coaches or players? no
I can also pretty much guarantee Gibson did not tell Charles Stewart, career third or second stringer, to flail at the ball/a huge TE on the sideline and let him run to the endzone - that is on the player...Just like I'm pretty sure Vance Bedford or English or whoever else was coaching the year before didn't tell Stevie Brown to act like a matador and allow Oregon free touchdowns.
Picking Stewart as an example of bad coaching is like saying Rodriguez should have made Sheridan=/=suicidal kitten. Yes, players have culpability and also have limits to their natural ability and football instincts. Coaches have culpability too, I agree, but I'm pretty sure RR wouldn't make Gibson Associate Head Coach if he wasn't up for the task. I'm sure RR knows more about coaching and evaluating coaches than we do. The Shafer thing sounds like a difference in philosophy more than anything.
My soul dong is dislocated....
Consider Rocky Long
Rocky, head coach at New Mexico for 11 years, former DC at UCLA. Runs an unorthodox 3-3-5 set with 3 LB's or 5 DB's capable of blitzing at any time. He had 2 straight top 20 defenses and held Utah to 13 pts. As a Michigan and A New Mexico fan I would love to see him the swap MWC for Big Ten as coach Locksley swapped Big Ten to MWC.
This points to Casteel to me...
This is from the Freep article also:
The two coaches had differing philosophies from the start as Shafer believed in a base 4-3 defense and Michigan began the season with that before morphing into Rodriguez's traditional 3-3-5 format late in the season.
"That’s kind of the reason the decision was made," Shafer said about their differences. "It's one of those deals throughout the whole deal (we debated.) We came up with that decision that it was time to go our own ways. It just didn't fit as simple as that is. I wish Michigan all the success in the future."
Self proclaimed MGoBlog "quiz-bowl stud"
coould also mean
a promotion from within.. i owuld be very suprised if michigan ISNT running hte odd stack next year. and like i sais last year, its not bad. I run some odd stack stuff, it just isnt my fav. but maybe michigan will be really good with it... maybe they need to be more of a single high safety team...
yeah, i figured this woudl come out
i wish him the best, RR missed the boat on this guy im afraid, but maybe its the best for michigan, you have to be on the same page
my $$$ goes to a guy who
my $$$ goes to a guy who wasn't even listed. not many foresaw RR being chosen as HC let alone Schahfer being hired as DC last year. I'm under the assumption that this hire will be somewhat of a surprise to a lot of us.
i only respect other superfans
Shafer and Demise is not him being too hard on himself
as a poster suggested, but rather, Shafer's statement that he takes responsibility for the demise of Michigan is a shot that he is being unfairly blamed for, well, the demise of the program.
In short, he is acknowledging that he is a scapegoat for what some fans perceive as a demise of the program.
Does not sound like this was mutual.
We can't run. We can't pass. We can't stop the run. We can't stop the pass. We can't kick. Other than that, we're just not a very good football team right now. - Bruce Coslet
I've looked at the 3-3-5,
I've looked at the 3-3-5, too, and think it's sound. Every defense has problems, of course. This is a particularly strong run defense, and has some susceptibility in the passing game. If I have to make a pick in the college game, it's usually to stuff the run and make the QB beat me through the air. So, I'm not saying we should switch to it, but I'm okay with it if we do.
3-3-5
I don't think people should be scared of the 3-3 front. We ran it in college, and had the best run defense in the conference the second year we ran it. Of course, our ilb was the conference's defensive player of the year that season. Gsims has already said this, but the types of coverages are limited. We only ever ran 3, quarter quarter half, and cover one in short yardage and goal line situations. Route wise it is susceptible to 4 vert, and routes into the flat. Not saying Michigan should make the switch, just that its not the end of the world. I was also disappointed with this news as I liked what Shafer was doing with the defense. Plus consistency on a coaching staff is always helpful for the players.
Can't we say that part of
Can't we say that part of Shafer's problem was that he was saddled with coaches he didn't pick who were coaching a system (his) they had never coached?
This line of reasoning is overblown. The main responsibility of position coaches is to develop players' fundamentals and basically serve as an intermediary between them and the coordinator/head coach. I don't think the way a position coach does his job has that much to do with what scheme the DC uses. It's not like defenders in a 3-4 have to learn how to tackle differently than defenders in a 4-3.
The one part of this reasoning that I can buy is the possibility that there were personality clashes between Shafer and the position coaches. In that case, then yeah, not getting to pick his staff would have been a handicap. But even in that event, changing DCs is more painless than changing three position coaches.
Rhoads is good? Really?
I vaguely remember reading some very entertaining posts on some Pitt blogs about how much they hated Paul Rhoads. Maybe they just hated him because he worked for The Wannstache, though, I can't remember.
At this point, I just want some continuity and stability. During these rebuilding years, I would very much like the drama at Michigan to be turned down to 3. Schembechler Hall needs some quiet time.
"We just had a mutual
"We just had a mutual decision," Shafer told the Free Press. "We had different thoughts on the way we did things. I take full responsibility for the demise of where Michigan's program is at this time."
So it he that sabotaged our program?!?! Bastard.
Yeah...
If you are an 18 year old
If you are an 18 year old black kid (since our team is largely african-american) do think you'd have an easier time forging an affinity to a younger person who is your race, or an older white guy? My hunch says more would go for the younger black guy.
valid point. as much as it
valid point. as much as it shouldnt matter about race and coaching it plays a major part. why else would almost every basketball team have one black coach on their bench? also do not be surprised if the new dc comes out of left field much like the hiring of Rich Rod did last year.
pretty sure Chavis is hispanic
judging by his name and his pic.... 52 is not old for a coach... Les Miles is older than that, as was Moeller, and Carr for much of his career (and Bo..and many of the coaches...no one is bitching about 57 year old Fred Jackson and his ability to recruit...)
... the age of a DC is not as important as his knowledge and how he relates to the kids in both recruiting and coaching. Nothing bad has been said about the guy's abilities...so to diss him based on him being middle aged and not black is pretty fucking stupid and narrow minded imo.
Strictly business...Not personal.
I don't think Brian was
I don't think Brian was talking about his coaching ability - he explicity says he's a great coach. I think he referred to recruiting ability.
And my point wasn't that black kids don't like white people - but that most people have an easier time relating to people like themselves. There aren't many native-american players out there.
