If Not Now, When?
I posted about this on The Sporting Blog so this is going to be a rehash, but since this is the Leno-Conan tiff of college football right now I haven't thought about much else: holy crap in a hat, USC hired Lane Kiffin.
There are a thousand different ways in which that statement can be taken: wow, what a snake. Wow, Al Davis was right. Wow, even Charlie Weis shot down USC. Wow, I love hot dogs. In all ways the hire makes no sense, and the rest of the blogosphere is busily examining all of these angles plus dongs on a rock. Last night I had the same giddy reaction that the rest of the universe did. USC hired a guy who rose through the ranks thanks to nepotism and has time and again proven himself an idiot of the highest order. Woo.
Today, though, I'm bothered. That USC had to stoop so low as to grab Kiffin indicates the coming sanctions are harsh, but taking Orgeron and maybe picking off Chow and the thing stuck in my craw indicate that maybe USC is going to get off easy. The thing that is currently stuck in my craw is the thing I had to resort to all caps to properly express over at TSB:
LANE KIFFIN WAS THE OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR AND RECRUITING COORDINATOR WHEN REGGIE BUSH WAS ON THE TAKE AND JOE MCKNIGHT COMMITTED TO USC. USC is hiring one of the guys—possibly the guy—who was most responsible for the NCAA coming down on the program.
Can this be interpreted as anything other than a taunt? USC is going to get penalized in two different sports in February. They've fired one coach for directly paying a runner and lost another because he managed to ignore agents in his locker room. And they bring in Lane Freakin' Kiffin, a guy who
- has racked up seven or eight very public secondary violations in one a year at Tennessee
- is currently under investigation for employing Tennessee undergrads as a sort of USO show from sea to shining sea
- pursued and acquired Bryce Brown when his recruitment and sketchy AAU-style handler became too much for Miami, which I remind you is Miami
…argh… Spock… herecomethe… ALLCAPS
- LANE KIFFIN WAS THE OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR AND RECRUITING COORDINATOR WHEN REGGIE BUSH WAS ON THE TAKE AND JOE MCKNIGHT COMMITTED TO USC.
USC is getting hit with football violations and they have just hired the guy most directly responsible for those violations occurring as their head coach. He is bringing Ed Orgeron and possibly Norm Chow back with him, giving USC more than one coach who had full knowledge of the shenanigans going down in LA and did zero to stop it.
USC has just double-dog-dared the NCAA to do something meaningful. They've thrown away the idea of contrition in favor of defiance. They are saying yes, we have had three separate incidents in two sports in a matter of years, but this is not a lack of institutional control. It is the institution. Insofar as we can, we cheat.
This is the NCAA's Waterloo. If USC does not suffer severe repercussions that make it all but impossible for them to compete on a national level for five years in both major sports, the idea that the rules mean anything is over.
January 13th, 2010 at 4:49 PM ^
Isn't it common knowledge in recruiting circles that RoJo family was "paid" on his recruiting trip to USC. That his family got a shopping spree and then all of a sudden shut down the Michigan coaches and wouldn't even let them in the door?
I expect this was common practice with a lot of recruits.
January 14th, 2010 at 12:08 AM ^
Step 1: Repeat unsourced, unverified rumor.
Step 2: Use it as a junping off point for further speculation.
Sterling work.
January 13th, 2010 at 9:55 PM ^
@chitownblue2: You say you're going to get negged, I say this may actually be one of your best posts ever. The myopic homerism that runs through this board can get pretty outlandish at times.
January 14th, 2010 at 10:06 AM ^
We've been operating under an assumption that what Brian says on his blog is canon. I think the response so far has demonstrated very much the opposite. If people tend to agree with Brian a lot, I think that's because Brian is right a lot.
This isn't one of those times. The allegations against USC are not necessarily "minor," but they're not as big as they are being made out in the above entry. And they're still allegations; the NCAA conducted its fact-finding, and hasn't yet released the facts. Brian is already assuming:
- USC was found guilty of turning a blind eye in skeezy agents to solicit through bribes several very highly rated players
- Lane Kiffin was aware of this
- Norm Chow was aware of this
- The opportunity to get $$$ solicitations from L.A. agents was used to recruit nationally rated players to SC
January 14th, 2010 at 10:21 AM ^
, it could suggest USC knows they're innocent, or at least that Kiffin wasn't implicated.
This is a good point. We can assume that USC is a program with a death-wish, flagrantly throwing it's middle-finger at the NCAA (or maybe just a bunch of morons?), or one that believes Kiffin isn't implicated in the probe.
January 13th, 2010 at 4:00 PM ^
Wasn't Kiffikins the one who ran him out of town the first time?
January 13th, 2010 at 4:08 PM ^
Word is that O and Chow were being brought in by USC no matter who the head coach was going to be. Supposedly Chow left partly because Carroll kept giving Sark/Kiff more responsibility/credit, though Carroll was apparently reaching out to bring Chow back before he got the Seattle offer. The supposed personal beef is between Sark and Chow, though I'm not sure on the reasons.
January 13th, 2010 at 4:04 PM ^
I dont about this. I see a loss of schollies and maybe some vacated wins, but I dont know if the institution is getting this banhammer a lot of you are pining for. I would agree with what Purple Stuff said. Everyone is so jazzed about USC getting crushed by sanctions that they've forgotten that they dont even know what violations are.
That said, Kiffin is a clown, a product of nepotism and would have been a disaster in Knoxville had his father's defense not played so well in SEC games.
Good luck with that, USC.
January 13th, 2010 at 8:11 PM ^
Frankly nepotism or no nepotism, with a defense run by Monte, an offense run by Chow and recruiting run by Orgeron, it would take the biggest bungler in the world to mess that up. Especially at USC. Unless violations go down or Kiffin is truly the worst HC I have ever seen, USC will be fine.
January 14th, 2010 at 8:11 AM ^
I'm laughing becasue you're right. But, then I remember the Peach Bowl pantsing I took this year thanks to the family Kiffins gameplan and I sob.
I will be going back and forth on this coaching staff all off season, but you're right, given the talent at USC and the entire coaching staff, they ought to be fine.
I'd still bet money Laner somehow fawks this up. One way or another.
January 14th, 2010 at 11:33 AM ^
The biggest risk involved w/ bringing Kiffin in is that they will have some sanctions of indeterminable strength, which will probably include some sort of probation. And the guy you hire racked up numerous secondary violations in just over 1 year at Tennessee? He should have excellent coordinators around him while he is there to not mess up the product on the field, it is getting into more trouble off the field that has a better chance of derailing this train.
January 13th, 2010 at 4:21 PM ^
this is kind of like the comment Bob Knight made against Calipari at UK, how can a coach hop from school to school and leave a wake of ncaa investigations or violations and still emerge unscathed? While the student athlete gets boned, miss post-season games or transfer and sit out a year, etc? If the ncaa rules exists to protect student athletes what happens when the individual coaches are doing the harm to the kids and the coaches can transfer before the sh*t hits the fan. Coach Sampson got suspended 5 yrs by ncaa, could this happen to a FB coach like Kiffen if the violations are major?
January 13th, 2010 at 6:33 PM ^
I mean, for severe offenses. Then, a coach may think twice about what he's doing. Even if he then goes to the NFL, he will have burned his bridges and be much less secure if he gets fired.
Still, this would not solve a big part of the problem: the fact that nobody is required to testify under oath and threat of perjury unless the courts or congress gets involved.
Maybe congress should stop spending its time on BCS tournament issues, which have little consequence for most students, and start dealing with these more important issues: like cheating coaches who leave their recruits in the lurch when they leave to escape NCAA sanctions, turn a blind eye to steroids, etc. Should somebody investigate NCAA investigative biases driven by the vendetta of journalists alleging minor mistakes or NCAA oversights of major offenses enabled by the buddy system with current and former officials and infractions committee members?
Do we need some kind of agency that is more effective than the NCAA? Is it possible?
(sigh).....I don't know.
January 13th, 2010 at 4:23 PM ^
I don't care one iota what happens to the USC football team, but I'll punch a hole through my projection screen if I don't get at least 39 hours of the Song Girls in HD next fall.
January 13th, 2010 at 6:43 PM ^
I'd get 3D TV for that.
January 13th, 2010 at 4:40 PM ^
Well Brian, you almost summed up my thoughts word for word. Just change 5 years to 10 years and add in a few well placed F-bombs.
This is clearly a direct challenge to the NCAA. And, if history is any indication, the penalties will make you think Micky Mouse works there in addition to his job at Disney.
January 13th, 2010 at 4:49 PM ^
Can you imagine the signal a slap on the wrist will send?!?! There are already plenty of schools running a muck out there. This would throw the door wide open.
"What do you mean? USC did it" .
January 13th, 2010 at 5:09 PM ^
He's the guy they got to take the fall, yet should keep the gravy train flowin' in the meantime. Perhaps?
I imagine the interview went something like this:
January 13th, 2010 at 5:07 PM ^
At this point, I fully expect UM to be hit with massive sanctions for God knows what "violation" that the Free Press can dream up, and for USC to get off with a few vacated games and maybe a 2-scholarship reduction. Doesn't seem fair, but then what is.
As for Kiffin, I have my doubts that he'll stick around at USC for more than a few years before taking another shot at the NFL. He is too young and connected to not try it again, and the Al Davis factor probably won't hurt him as much as people think, since Davis may very well be filled with sawdust and beetles and not an actual human being.
January 13th, 2010 at 5:23 PM ^
It's been awhile since I last posted here but all I have to say before I disappear into the night once again is...
Amen Brian. You pretty much nailed it as far as the NCAA is concerned and if they botch this USC thing then I guess Mr. Tarkanian was right and the NCAA is in fact the crookedest organization in the country.
January 13th, 2010 at 5:28 PM ^
Isn't the issue here about institutional control? If someone paid Reggie Bush while he was playing, wouldn't that make him ineligible? Therefore, all those USC wins would be vacated? There would at least be those sanctions, which would be severe in their own right. If that doesn't happen, then really the rules don't matter. Connecting USC by saying they were involved or knowingly looked the other way is a higher standard, but not all the facts are out yet. We need to wait for the report.
Just the way the program operates, I have a hard time believing Bush was the only player who received benefits. Only the investigation will reveal what they found. Since Bush talked, he could out other players to lessen the attention on him.
January 13th, 2010 at 9:51 PM ^
It's merely pretending that those years don't exist. I lived in Minnesota when the academic scandal with their basketball team broke, and I guarantee you that the bad feeling of having the 1997 Final Four run vacated didn't even come close to balancing out the good feeling of the Final Four run happening in the first place.
If that's all that happens to USC, what's to stop them from happily violating the rules again and winning a bunch more championships that they'll be told later never officially happened?
What I think ought to happen, assuming the violations are as severe as everybody expects (an idea largely based on Brian's suggestion regarding their basketball team): scholarship limit reduced by 25 or to the number of returning scholarship players, whichever is higher, for 2011 (basically, they won't be forced to cancel any scholarships for players already in school but they can't add players unless they're more than 25 below the normal limit), with the penalty reduced by 5 every year thereafter, a four-year bowl ban starting in 2011, and an automatic waiver of all transfer requirements for any players already there.
That won't happen, but I at least hope that what happens isn't the NCAA being very angry with USC and writing them a letter telling them how angry they are.
January 13th, 2010 at 5:29 PM ^
Arrogance is a very hard thing to shake and USC seems to have as much as anyone. The question of course is who at the university knows what? Is it possible the president is unaware? The AD? Is everyone so blinded by success and the adulation ESPN and alumni?
I hope it never comes to this at Michigan. It won't. Some places are just different and we are seeing more than ever how different we are from the likes of USC.
January 13th, 2010 at 8:54 PM ^
The University of Michigan Football team is under NCAA investigation.
The difference is that Michigan fans on MGoBlog assume we're innocent while they assume that USC is guilty. We'll see how the assumptions play out.
January 13th, 2010 at 11:01 PM ^
Another difference is that there are allegations at USC of players being ineligible, in multiple sports, due to FAR more serious pay-to-play situations (considered broadly). Of course, you know this (edit: as you discuss below).
It's apparently more enjoyable for you at this stage of your career to take shots at MGoBlog posters by creating straw men. Don't worry, it's completely detached and hilarious.
January 13th, 2010 at 11:14 PM ^
No - I'm poking fun at Brian and idiotic followers starting a pogrom against a school and a coach because telling themselves that "the successful schools cheat" is somehow comforting while Michigan struggles. If they establish that bad things happened, and that Kiffin took part in them, I'll join the parade. But this "THEY MUST BE PUNISHED!!!!" bullshit before a thing is announced so you can RAGERAGERAGE about it when they're NOT punished as much as your out-sized sence of vindiction demands is something Drew Sharp does. Seriously.
January 14th, 2010 at 12:08 AM ^
That's kind of fair, actually. I've just heard so many rumors about USC shenanigans like the Bush/McKnight situations over the years (I'm no insider, so I have no confirmation of course) that whatever the investigation turns up, I'm convinced it will miss most of what's really going on.
Bringing in a coach known primarily for 1) recruiting, 2) his father, and 3) for NCAA secondary violations amidst an investigation about things that occurred in part on his watch does seem like thumbing your nose at the NCAA. But I do agree: going crazy over this now is silly, especially since this kind of thing happens all over. I just had a hard time with comparing the USC situation to the Michigan allegations, which I don't think are of the same type or legitimacy.
January 14th, 2010 at 1:21 AM ^
Do you mean to imply that people hold subjective views? That they have opinions, not exclusively formed from a thorough and rational consideration of facts? Shocking.
This pogrom of which you speak -- it is as poorly thought-out as would be positing a generalized intention for a group's shared perception without fully considering all the factors that influence why different individuals in the group hold the same view. Undoubtedly, anyone idiotic enough to do that should wait for all the facts to come to light.
January 14th, 2010 at 8:32 AM ^
That's all.
January 14th, 2010 at 9:43 AM ^
In response to your first paragraph - I think it's perfectly reasonable for Brian to have opinions that are not based solely in 100% fact. I do not think it's reasonable for him to call for USC's head-on-a-platter when he has no idea if his opinion is actually, you know, true. It would be one thing for Brian to write "this is potentially shady, as their are questions" and "IF THE NCAA DOESN'T BOMB THEM TO THE STONEAGE, THIS IS A FARCE." One acknowledges that his assumptions may not be true. The other acts as if they are. See the difference?
As per paragraph two - you may have to put that in slightly less over-wrought prose. I honestly have no idea what you're attempting to say.
January 14th, 2010 at 12:01 PM ^
I don't have a problem with Brian's hyperbole and emotional inflammation. That's good entertainment, which is one of the main products I seek at this site. Just a matter of preference, there.
My issue is that you called those of us engaging in the mud-slinging "idiots" based on your presumption that we all are acting in that manner:
...because telling themselves that "the successful schools cheat" is somehow comforting while Michigan struggles.
This is a dubious conclusion, at best. Maybe we're just having a bit of fun at USC's expense, because the situation they're in is, on the face of it, absurd and comical. My "over-wrought prose" was drawing a parallel between the generalized intention which you posited (a conclusion not based on facts; rather, it is a subjective interpretation of factual events [people's posts] which you have only a superficial exposure to [that is, you can't crawl into posters' heads to see why they posted X, Y, or Z]) and Brian's implication of Kiffin being guilty of various things despite having only a superficial exposure to the facts.
January 14th, 2010 at 12:35 PM ^
to figure out why you've spent this entire post defending USC?
How hard is it to figure out that all anyone is saying is: if the allegations are true, then there should be severe punishment handed down? How do you turn this into a problem with Michigan fans? We didn't create the problem at USC.
When an issue like "practice gate" is brought up, you're quick to jump on the "Michigan MUST be doing SOMETHING wrong", and "where there's smoke, there's fire!" trains. Anyone that doesn't think Michigan doesn't cheat has their head in the sand, right? Typical homer MGoSlappies. Eveyone does it. We're no different than OSU, USC, etc.
Yet, when the shoe is on the other foot, and USC is being deluged with allegations, you switch over to the "where are your facts?", "we cheat too", and "innocent until proven guilty!" camps.
I know you don't like most of your fellow posters, and I'm sure you feel like you bring some sort of non-homer balance to the board, but...I just don't get your schtick.
January 14th, 2010 at 1:31 PM ^
Nailed it.
January 14th, 2010 at 3:32 PM ^
When an issue like "practice gate" is brought up, you're quick to jump on the "Michigan MUST be doing SOMETHING wrong", and "where there's smoke, there's fire!" trains.
I never did this.
How hard is it to figure out that all anyone is saying is: if the allegations are true, then there should be severe punishment handed down?
That's not what Brian's saying. Brian's saying that they should be shot to hell NOW. Before we know if the allegations are true.
January 14th, 2010 at 4:20 PM ^
When an issue like "practice gate" is brought up, you're quick to jump on the "Michigan MUST be doing SOMETHING wrong", and "where there's smoke, there's fire!" trains.
I never did this.
Are you kidding? You wrote an entire post on the WLA immediately after the FREEP article came out basically saying that in the allegations, coupled with the quotes, were indefensible and had to be true. You then deleted the post from that blog when it was repeatedly pointed out how idiotic it was.
January 14th, 2010 at 4:39 PM ^
I had initially typed out a clarification of your mis-representation of what I wrote, but I'm not going to bother.
Rather than attack anything I've said, rather than say what I'm saying on this thread is wrong, rather than arguing it, you decided to go ad-hominem and pretend that I have an ax-to-grind with Michigan - and idea that anyone who knows me, especially my wife, would laugh at as I make her watch Michigan hoops tonight at 8:30.
If you want to talk about this subject, and not about how much of an asshole I am, I welcome that.
January 14th, 2010 at 6:01 PM ^
He actually pointed out that there is no way these players did less than 20 hours of activities a week, but that they may or may not have been countable. IIRC, his main thrust (lol thrust) was that until we know what the countable hour totals were, we can't know how things stand officially. However, his argument (once again IIRC) was that "voluntary" is anything but, and that's acknowledged at all schools. It's the price to play college sports, and he was railing against that.
January 14th, 2010 at 8:49 PM ^
Bingo. My point was "making kids to 30 hours of work for sports, on top of classwork, while the school makes money off their efforts, while they don't get a cent of that money, and often don't get a useful degree sucks."
And it was deleted because one of our contributors is a computer retard and destroyed that intertube.
January 14th, 2010 at 12:13 AM ^
I think it is as naive as it is arrogant to assume that USC's problems haven't happened at Michigan or any other school. I don't think they need people piling on right now, just like Michigan didn't need it in August last year. We don't know what the NCAA will say, so it is kind of premature for Brian and many of you here to be dumping on SC and predicting its demise. I hope SC comes out unscathed if it deserves to, and it might; remember, we don't know what Bush did or didn't do for sure and we don't know what the NCAA is going to do. And I expect USC to be back at full strength soon enough, and I hope we are too so we can even the score on the field instead of having our fans hurl insults at a program we would be lucky to be like in many ways these days simply because these fans are jealous or scared of what SC is, has been and is going to be. Hope Michigan doesn't receive this kind of treatment when the NCAA gets ready to issue its ruling. Yeesh. Go Blue.
January 14th, 2010 at 11:26 AM ^
You make fair points and I agree. We don't know what the outcome will be and should reserve judgment. I think the underlying concern isn't so much that some schools are outright "cheating" but that they may be playing closer to the edge than Michigan is willing to these days and it may keep us from competing at the highest level with Alabama, Texas, USC etc. There is a feeling that some schools may be more prone to over recruiting (Alabama), negative recruiting, female greeting parties...we all get the picture. This is largely perception and it may or may not be true but it is the source of the frustration.
One important note however. In this instance the allegations against USC are far more serious than those against Michigan - they are more like those involving the 90s Michigan basketball program.
Hopefully we just start winning again and it is all history.
January 13th, 2010 at 6:04 PM ^
I'm not convinced that Kiffin is evil. I don't know. I don't think he'll be so successful either...
January 13th, 2010 at 6:30 PM ^
Why do we care that much about USC again? Don't we have to actually get to the Rose Bowl to worry about them?
January 13th, 2010 at 7:41 PM ^
I can't speak for all, but one reason to care about USC is that they are one of only two programs which we have played more than 10 times and has a winning record against us (the other being Cornell). Yet, we are undefeated against them in regular-season play.
Suffice to say, we want to win against them in the future. And in order to do that, it would help if they stop cheating and/or are penalized for having cheated.
To answer your second question, we may end up playing them in the Pizza Pizza Bowl next year, for all you know.
January 14th, 2010 at 7:57 AM ^
Never stops shoving this stat in my face.
January 13th, 2010 at 8:05 PM ^
I want Baxter at Michigan and anything that makes USC look bad right now just increases Michigan's chances of nabbing him.
January 14th, 2010 at 10:37 AM ^
because we compete against them for recruits on a regular basis. Also, I want our program run cleanly and I want a level playing field.
January 13th, 2010 at 6:38 PM ^
regret at leisure
January 13th, 2010 at 7:06 PM ^
NCAA rules comitte is very political. I could see the less popular USC basketball program getting hit harder than the football program. My guess is that the football program will face a realtively light penalty of scholarship loses and and possibly forfeiting all wins that Bush played in.
It would be pathetic if they do come down harder on us than USC!
January 14th, 2010 at 12:19 AM ^
Some people don't think think USC cheating affects Michigan. It does do so indirectly. The year that Reggie Bush and Leinart were recruited both of them were very highly on the UM. Also that year, I remember how USC got seven 5 star players. I have followed recruiting for years, I've never seen such a haul of players by one school. Even former Michigan player, Justin Fargas left for USC. Remember him? He told his ex- Michigan team mates what USC was going to do. Fargas bragged on what Carroll and USC were going to do one year before their dominance.
I remember someone saying on the news that the USC coach passes 59 high schools on the way home everyday. He does not need any other advantage. He already lives in the most populous state in the union. You guys better wake up!
Year after year, USC accumulated very high ranked recruiting classes. Until recently only Florida, Texas, and now Alabama have been able to compete with them. No one pulls in such talent consistently. If USC cheated it effects many team in two ways. It decreases talent in those school that could get these player, and secondly schools will get their butts kicked by them because of their talent.
You should care! The NCAA has penalized SMU and gave them the death penalty. They are just now emerging from the edict. Michigan's basketball team was also penalized for much less than any thing USC is guilty of.
Know this, nothing exists alone and every thing effect, and affects every thing else. Michigan lost twice to Carroll's USC Trojans. Any unfair advantage can ripple through the whole of college football.
USC's hiring of Lane Kiffin will just continue the inequity, and lack of integrity. The NCAA needs to do its job.
January 14th, 2010 at 8:50 AM ^
This post is full of grammar pain.
Also, what, exactly, is USC guilty of that is worse than the violations in the Michigan basketball program? Inquiring minds would like to know.
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