2020 Recruiting: Darion Green-Warren
Previously: Last year's profiles. S Makari Paige, S RJ Moten, S Jordan Morant, CB Andre Seldon, VP William "Apache" Mohan.
| Harbor City, CA – 6'0", 187 | |||||||||||||||||||
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24/7 | 4*, 90 rating #24 CB, #32 CA |
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| Rivals | 4*, #123 overall #12 CB, #17 CA |
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| ESPN | 4*, #243 overall #19 CB, #18 CA |
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| Composite | 4*, #189 overall #13 CB, #20 CA |
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| Other Suitors | USC, OU (decommit), UGA, FSU, UF, Clemson, Neb | ||||||||||||||||||
| YMRMFSPA | Channing Stribling | ||||||||||||||||||
| Previously On MGoBlog | Hello post from Ace. | ||||||||||||||||||
| Notes | Twitter. AA game. | ||||||||||||||||||
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Junior Year: |
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You may have heard some hooting and hollering around these parts about USC's incredible disaster of a recruiting class. The Trojans brought in just 13 guys, only two of them four stars, and ended up ranked just behind Vandy and Oregon State. They got one of the top 25 guys in California. So did Michigan: Darion Green-Warren, who was apparently a USC silent commit for a long time. Michigan badly needed cornerbacks in this class, so a hat tip to Clay Helton there.
Green-Warren was also a public commit to Oklahoma. He grew up just outside of Norman and committed to the Sooners early. He opened it back up after OU fired their DC and DBs coach; there is some speculation that Alex Grinch, the new DC, was not enamored with Green-Warren's athleticism.
That is a common thread running through all of Green-Warren's evaluations, which is odd for a consensus four star. Green-Warren's positives are sometimes hand-wavy platitudes, exemplified by this Rivals video in which he's praised for his "competitiveness and drive" about three times—give or take a paraphrase—in 49 seconds:
There is some meat in there about Green-Warren's ability to press guys out of their routes.
[After THE JUMP: not that fast but gets work done]
Your author gets a little nervous when the first thing out of an analyst's mouth is something about how ornery a dude is. That goes double for a spot like cornerback where athleticism is more important than almost any other position on the field. And there are a lot of people questioning Green-Warren's athleticism. Adam Gorney, the analyst speaking the video above, in text form:
…not going to blow you away physically, but he’s going to compete every single time he’s on the field. …
Steve Wiltfong after seeing him in person at the AA game:
"… impresses from a stature standpoint … made some plays in coverage … Overall athleticism is a question mark."
"…. speed is not a strength … good instincts and is physical. … I like Green-Warren from a technique standpoint, and he’s also a feisty competitor … breaks well … lack of makeup speed. … If you’re looking for a guy who can shut down Ohio State’s seemingly endless bullet train of wide receivers, this probably isn’t the guy."
…not a quick twitch athlete … relies more on smarts and instincts right … need[s] to improve his short area burst, closing speed and ability to turn and run down the field to reach his full potential as a player.
On the other hand, the ranking service Adam Gorney works for moved him up 100 spots in their rankings over the course of his senior year:
Something is going right despite the constant burbling about his lack of speed. High school stats need to be taken in context but our favorite CB stat is the ratio of downfield tackles to PBUs and Green-Warren's off the charts here. Last year he had 10 non-TFL tackles and 8 PBUs. Green-Warren is getting work done.
The positive sides of those evaluations indicate how. Biggins again:
… one of the smartest corners in the country. … great natural feel … advanced technique and is one of the most competitive players in the region. … very good ball skills and ball awareness. He’s a physical player, very good in run support and an excellent open field tackler.
physical at the line of scrimmage … not going to let you get into your route, and he’s going to compete on the back end. …. great feet. … going to be very good on an island if he needs to be…. very good week for him [at the AA game] in terms of being consistent and being one of those corners that had his side of the field locked down, so nothing really happened.
24/7 named him the Alpha Dog of a loaded west coast 7-on-7 tourney:
…most consistent player for Ground Zero from start to finish. … took on the challenge of manning up with every team’s best receiver and was in lock down mode all afternoon. He was extremely impressive covering [#115 composite, ASU signee] Johnny Wilson in the semi-finals and [#65 composite, OSU signee] Gee Scott in the championship game.
Another report from the same tournament praised his "instincts, awareness, and feet." Other 7-on-7 performances were similarly positive: "made the biggest play of the day … great closing speed and instincts"; "best defensive player for Ground Zero … advanced technique and was rarely tested"
EJ Holland after seeing him at the AA game:
…really good length, likes to get physical and plays with some of the best technique you'll see at the high school level. … all about developing his body. … wasn't talked about a ton at All-American Bowl week, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. When you play cornerback, quiet is usually a good thing. … blanketed some of the country's best wide receivers and earned a starting spot on the West squad.
Gorney handed out an award for the best cover guy at the AA game; Green-Warren was one of three honorable mentions behind five-star Georgia signee Kelee Ringo.
So Green-Warren is a fit guy. Put him in a correct context and he can do things for you. Michigan thinks that's press coverage 100% of the time. So does Green-Warren:
“I think scheme wise, Michigan is the best fit for me. … They run a lot of man concepts and I love coach Harbaugh and coach Zordich."
Gerald Martinez of 24/7 had a different take after seeing him at the Opening, suggesting a move to safety might be in the offing:
In situations where he can play near the line of scrimmage and physically battle for position, Green-Warren makes some great plays on the ball.
However, when he gets caught in man coverage downfield, Green-Warren struggles to transition out of his backpedal fast enough to run with the wide receiver. Green-Warren can get away with playing cornerback with a safety deep to help him on vertical routes, but that also limits the coverages a secondary can run to his side of the field.
Though Michigan has moved more towards two high coverages in the aftermath of the first OSU nuking, they're not going to put a safety over Green-Warren much. So if he gets his hands on the receiver and his technique wins he'll be good. If he's chucked away early he's not going to make it up. Michigan will endeavor to make crossing routes someone else's problem.
Etc.: There was some confusion about this since Green-Warren repeatedly said he was going to enroll early: he did not.
Why Channing Stribling? Stribling ran 4.6 40s at the NFL combine and his pro day en route to going undrafted but after a period where he was inexplicably phasing out of this dimension just before he had an opportunity to make a play on the ball he became an excellent college corner. From PFF's NFL draft scouting takes:
Outstanding production… gave up completions on just 21 of 65 targets … physical at the line of scrimmage … receivers struggle to separate from him in press coverage. … Locates the ball in the air extremely well; knows when to cut his man off to go for the pick, but can also play off his man’s eyes and hands to knock the ball out as it arrives. … Speed, agility questions likely to drop him to the bottom of this class despite college production …Once beaten off the break he struggles to close the gap without the QB making a throwing error.
Stribling has an inch or two on Green-Warren; he was a high three star as a recruit.
Other comparables include JT Floyd—the fairly good senior version—and Brandon Watson. Neither of those guys had the recruiting profile Green-Warren does. Watson in particular is a guy whose press chops and smarts made up for a lack of athleticism (until it really really didn't).
Guru Reliability: High. Healthy, AA game, camps, no positional projection. Some variance in the ranking, and Rivals admits that they're of two minds about the guy.
Variance: Low. Like Seldon, a very good corner prospect with a baked-in drawback.
Ceiling: Moderate-plus. Probably tops out as a day 3 NFL prospect; good shot at being a very good college player.
General Excitement Level: Moderate-plus. The "but Ohio State" does loom a little large here, larger in fact than it does with Seldon.
Projection: Immediately thrown in the mix to crack the two deep behind Ambry Thomas and Vincent Gray. Sounds like DJ Turner is likely to be one of those guys; Green-Warren is competing with George Johnson III, Jalen Perry, and his classmates for the spot. I assume Seldon is going to be the nickel in year one.
Going forward there's a starting spot open next year that Green-Warren will compete for with the aforementioned guys. Green-Warren has the most encouraging recruiting profile amongst non-smurfs and might be a slight betting favorite if that was a thing. It's wide open. Green-Warren will get his crack at the job.
Jeremy LeSuer might also be a good comparison. I could see DGW being a lock down guy against the Indiana/Minnesota battle ship type receivers, but he may struggle with a Chris Olave type where a guy like Seldon would match up well. I think he can still be a very valuable piece, but he can be exposed to mismatches. If he's put in the right scheme (I think Michigan's scheme suits him well) I think he can be a very good B1G corner.
So if we could create a frankenstein CB out of him and Seldon we'd have an all-american. Got it.
Sounds like Moneyball
Hello post has a 4.67 zero fakes out of five 40 time. (Not listed in this post directly). I'm always confused as to what is actually fast. I know the 2020 draft prospects at corner probably averaged a 4.5, but there were are number of them in the 4.6's. Seems like with a college strength and conditioning program you'd also lose .1 or .2 from you time.
Lewis ran a 4.54 at the combine. Watson ran a 4.52 at his pro-day (so probably a little slower than that). Stribling ran 4.6.
Point being, yes speed matters. Especially if you make guys play on an island chasing after OSU guys running 4.35 drags. Though, guys like KJ Hill at OSU ran a 4.6 40 himself so it's not as though OSU has 5 WRs all running 0.3 seconds faster than all of Michigan's DBs. The last 2 combines they've had as many WRs run 4.6 (3) as they've had run sub 4.4.
At this point adjustments should be in the tool chest. Going 1 on 1 outside and hoping they don't run some mesh stuff isn't good enough. DGW types will be good press your face off outside DBs who can hack it against even the OSUs of the world. But you can't just expect your athletes to out athlete their opponents ESPECIALLY when the other coaches have a plan B and C.
Hill is a 4.6 guy and Olave ran an electronically timed 4.73. OSUs guys don’t have some otherworldly speed. It’s about scheme.
Olave ran an electronically timed 4.73
That was back in HS but I take your point. OSU does have some burners. McLauren and Campbell were 4.35 guys but that speed didn't seem to leave Lewis in the dust and he was a 4.54 guy.
I agree it has a lot to do with scheme. Man cover 1 works for Michigan most of the time because they have better athletes than 9/12 teams on their schedule AND they have better technique/coaching from Zordich. The problem is when they run up again guys who can match that athleticism with equal coaching (Hamler and Olave) you have to have a change up in your pocket. Michigan hasn't shown to be capable of pulling that out of the bag and it working against OSU to date.
DGW is good enough (from a recruiting perspective) to compete with OSU. If you see him trailing an OSU WR by 2 yards on the 6th crosser of the day, don't blame him. He shouldn't be in that position to start with. If you see him getting worked on a jam outside, yeah that's not as much a scheme thing as it is him just not being able to hack it.
Why are you watching from afar?
Get in here, you're one of the best posters I've seen here in awhile!
Been out in Boston for the last 6 years. Moving back to Michigan in a week! Yay upcoming 14 day quarantine.
I just have this feeling Olave has bettered that 4.73 since getting to Flavortown!
Either that or we have DBs that need to be timed by sundial
I think DGW is definitely going to be a contributor, but my question is why aren't we going after more raw athletic CBs who Zordich can coach up technique wise? Zordich is a great coach, so I'm not sure why we're going for so many technically developed CBs who don't have super high ceilings lately
I'd rather have the player who intuitively knows how to play, and work on his agility, than a fast guy who doesn't know how to effectively play and hope he learns.
I disagree. Technique can be coached up more easily than improving someone's athleticism, speed, and agility.
True. But let's say you have limited coaching time and want to run a complex scheme with enough change-ups to keep up with anything the best coaches can throw at you. Do you pick a raw quick-twitch guy, try to teach him technique AND a complex scheme, and hope he can digest it all? Or do you pick a smart, technically advanced player and use his brains and your scheme to overcome any athletic limitations? Given that every school wants to get the quick-twitch guys, and Michigan wants to sell education and a 40 year plan as part of the package, I can see why the latter approach is appealing.
I think he”ll get faster once he gets in the college strength and conditioning program. Look at Isaiah Simmons he was running a 4.75 in highschool and then went to combine and ran a 4.39.
The PEDs played a part in that.
I had to upvote you for this - a first for me on one of your comments!
You're less than negative 100million now!
You're welcome!
George Johnson is a raw athlete they've put at corner now. His recruiting write-up on this site compared him to Breaston, as a shifty high school QB being converted to WR. His numbers below are from that article, and "okay" is probably a good description of them for a slot WR, but I think these would be pretty good for a 6' CB? Steve Lorenz was very high on him, saying Georgia and FSU wanted him, and apparently Don Brown "stood on the table for him". So this guy seems like exactly the type of player you're suggesting.
"He put up a 4.3 shuttle and a 32 inch vert at a Nike Camp, which are okay. The 40 time cited at 24/7 is 4.55, which is pretty good but not great."
Eamonn Dennis in the 2020 class is the other. Harbaugh calls him Mike Sainristal. His profile will probably be up next now that he's at CB rather than WR, but I think that pretty much describes it. Sainristal but at CB is insanely athletic but raw.
Fair enough, I guess we have taken a few guys similar to what I was referencing
The thing about E.Dennis though - if the recent 40 time reported for him bears out - is he's so fast they can't afford to keep him at CB full time.
Would seem to be a candidate to play alongside Seldon if 2 Nickel CBs are called for. Don't see him beating Seldon out to be the primary Nickel tho...
But with that speed, if he were viewed as a potential lockdown CB, we'd have been competing against more than BC for him, MA or not!
I think the idea is that Michigan already has Giles Jacskon and Mike Sainristal ahead of him for slot reps, with a very highly rated AJ Henning coming in with his class. Speed in space demons out of the slot seem to be pretty well set for a couple of years. Which is wonderful. Dennis was probably made aware of this, and that the path to playing time was clearer at CB.
So If those guys are what we're hoping they'll be, then yes I'd love to have that type of speed on the field at CB.
My point about Dennis's relative value at CB vs Slot is, guys who can post 4.37 40s and cover like DGW are 5* CBs, with Bama, Clemson etc. banging on their doors. Dennis did not have Dabo & Sabes offering that I'm aware of. I temper my expectations accordingly.
But he should absolutely be given a try there, given the lack of extreme need at WR/Slot. I would just like to see them find a way to get the ball in his hands occasionally - let's bring out the McDoom package and see what he does with it.
All I'm saying...
Dennis ran a 4.37??? Source?
Source? Mgoblog!
In fact, it may be referenced in the very post we're replying in the comments of!
But originally, it was reported in the "Dennis moves to CB" news, I believe.
Agree wholeheartedly. Cannot coach athleticism. Physically gifted guys seem to work out well in positions requiring raw ability like corner.
Agree wholeheartedly. Cannot coach athleticism. Physically gifted guys seem to work out well in positions requiring raw ability like corner.
I have heard that said before!
One thing that really stood out on DGW's highlight tape was his absolutely vicious hitting and impressive tackling technique coming up to tackle near the line of scrimmage in off coverage. I can easily see why some would project him to switch positions since the vast majority of safeties don't play the run and quick pass game as well as he does.
DGW seems to have a similar profile as some of the other cornerbacks Michigan has recruited. Vincent Gray, DJ Turner, and Jalen Perry all had straight line speed concerns. Turner played safety in high school but showed good agility (i.e. feet) and is a smart, savvy player. Gray stood out in his willing to aggressively come up and hit players in off coverage. Some thought Perry should transition to safety. So on and so forth.
In other words, Michigan clearly has a plan at cornerback and it's not to use these players in the same manner Jourdan Lewis, David Long, Lavert Hill and Ambry Thomas were used. I'm not saying they'd turn down players of this prototype moving forward. But it does sound like Michigan is planning on mixing up their coverages a lot more, which entails cornerbacks who are willing to aggressively support the run and who are able to execute a variety of coverages from a mental and technical standpoint. That would be my guess.
I should clarify that if any of these players can improve on their speed and hack it in Don Brown's patented hyper aggressive man coverage defense, they will certainly be allowed to do so. Aggressive press coverage is always going to be a staple of any Don Brown led defense. But few college football teams in any given year are going to have the type of athletes at cornerback needed to hang stride-for-stride with Ohio State's wide receivers, which have been the fastest or second fastest group of receivers in the nation the last couple of seasons.
Bottom line, we've recruited talented prospects to play cornerback (let's not forget George Johnson, who offers an intriguing physical package). But those abilities may need to be creatively deployed for maximum results. Let's trust the coaching staff to put these players in positions to succeed.
I find it fascinating that we are loading up recently with high end safety talent and consistently recruiting ok CBs. I have to believe some of this is Brown's priority. He asks so much of safeties that he has to have elite ones. Seems to believe as long as corners can press at the line and cover just long enough that will work. Since we haven't been burned by bad CB play in so long, I am mostly buying it. I will take Daxton Hill and Vincent Gray over a 5 star CB and a meh-safety. We'll find out this year.
I will admit I'd feel much better if a 5 star CB and 5 star DT showed up at the door tomorrow.
I think we may be underestimating Seldon just because of his height. He's rated a little higher than all of the safeties in his class. Of course the ratings take his height into account, particularly as it affects his NFL prospects.
I agree I like Seldon more than any of our corners signed since Ambry Thomas, and Green-Warren is second. I think he will be very successful in Don Brown's system. I see both of them getting some quality snaps by the end of the year.
I love Paige, Morant and Moten as a safety class. I think each of them has the capability to be a plus starter in the Big Ten and are perfect fits for our system. Add those guys to 2 more years of Daxton Hill last year and safety is set for a while.
The upside is that if his press technique can be refined and given the college-training-boost, we might have a pretty good B1G corner.
The downside is if he's been achieving these tremendous results with advanced technique and maxing out his physical gifts, and is unable to do the same against college WR.
A step slow in long speed...will likely need safety help over the top. I expect him to be outstanding in covering the first 20 yards and elite in run support. He plays hard and smart-love his ball awareness. Any surprises will be pleasant ones.
If he can get his speed down to the 4.55-4.65 range, he will be a great player for us. He was ranked highly and started at the AA game for a reason. This was a big recruiting win across the country.
Seems like a good college corner who doesn't have that extra gear to run a WR's route if he doesn't jam him at the line. That's okay for me, especially since guys sometimes rely too heavily on athleticism and don't ever develop good technique (obviously you'd like both but those are hard to come by). If he's asked to chase a guy against OSU or PSU all day across the field, that's a coaching issue and not a player's, most likely. But both him and Seldon showed they could handle top WRs in their class during the camp circuit consistently, and I'm confident that he'll develop at UM to keep pace.
Feels like a guy, like Gray that I'm going to wish we bulked up and put at S rather than forcing him in at CB for 3 years before we finally realize, we should've just redshirted him, put 20 pounds on him and let him learn the safety spot.
Nonetheless, he'll be a solid situational option, but Stribling was long enough to cover guys down the field even when he was a step behind.
Gray may turn into Strib, but I think Green-Warren would be best redshirting and starting his journey at S or NB.
Not saying "No" to a RS, but DGW is a CB!
We're loaded with highly ranked S crooted to play S, why jam him in there too, instead of jamming WRs at the LOS?!
I'm acronym crazy today!
Our DB recruiting is just abhorrent. I don’t understand why or how really, but my word none of these guys would get a whiff at a top tier program.
Poor damn Brandon Watson. That parenthetical, or some version of it, is going to follow him around -- at least among the type of folks who read this board -- for the rest of his life.
Kind of a bummer post for a top 200 guy at a position we’ve all been clamoring for top guys at.
He may not have the measurements, but every time he was put up against top competition he battled and won. Based on the All American game performance, he’s one of the top CBs in the class.
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