Rooting Conundrum - MSU or ND??
So ND plays MSU in East Lansing on saturday night and I don't thnk I've ever had such a hard time figuring out who to root for. We play both teams, so head-to-head is a wash. Thought process, in bullet form:
Pros of Rooting for MSU:
- Big Ten Pride.
- Gives us the opportunity to ruin their undefeated season.
- ND loses two in a row, on national television, has legit chance to start the year 1-4. HAHA ND we hate you.
Pros of rooting for ND:
- They have a better shot than MSU at finishing the year with a good record/national ranking, which would help us in the long run.
- Would give us an extra boost of confidence to see a team we just beat go on the road and win.
- MSU loses at home on national television. HAHA MSU we hate you.
Thoughts? I'm leaning towards rooting against MSU, just because I hate Dantonio.
September 16th, 2010 at 10:55 PM ^
I have to admit, Dantonio rooting for Ohio State that day was not good. You're correct, it was in MSU's interest for UM to win that day... ahead of their game with Penn State.
But what "public trashing" of Michigan, and Michigan man response are you talking about? Seriously?
As for the dance around the floor with Mike Hart, other than the reference to him as a "little guy", which took it too far... the "Pride before the fall" line was loved by nearly every Spartan I know. Hart was an arrogant ass after another very good football game in this series. Dantonio reacted, and ironically since then... UM hasn't beaten MSU.
As for hanging 40 on MSU, we'll see. And State's offense will hang a few on you too... and with a little good fortune, hold the ball for most of the game.
It will be a good football game.
September 16th, 2010 at 11:21 PM ^
As for the public trashing and Warden Dantonio's shit talking with a student athlete, I believe MWolverine has it covered below. Your coach is no better than an angry child.
As for State hanging points on us...Our defense is not great, but we're better than Boca Raton High who took a knee instead of shaming you even more before your home crowd of 10,129 people. A beatdown is coming; and it's not over potluck dinner.
September 16th, 2010 at 8:08 PM ^
'Nuff said.
September 16th, 2010 at 8:13 PM ^
State to blow a huge lead and lose a heartbreaker. That equation has this result:
September 16th, 2010 at 11:56 PM ^
I am completely ignorant when it comes to all the bashing of the sports radio scene up there. It all makes sense now. How in the world did such an incoherent, irrational individual get on air in a market as big as Detroit? As someone with a Broadcasting degree that has worked sparingly in sports media ,I can speak with some authority on this subject; and that was embarassing. How could anyone listen to that for any reason other than the unintentional comedy?
September 16th, 2010 at 8:22 PM ^
I'm not from Michigan so my hatred for MSU is alot less than most people. I will be rooting for MSU
September 16th, 2010 at 8:42 PM ^
no brainer for me. Little Brother is getting too big for his britches lately and needs a good kick in the ass (from ND and M both). Also, D'antonio is a dick so that's reason number two. Reason number three is that it would be a real downer for them to lose to a program starting with a new head coach in year one while D'antonio is in year four of his so-called rebuilding.
P.S. I really hate ND too but since ther can't be any ties...
September 16th, 2010 at 10:32 PM ^
...as long as "Little Brother" isn't a threat.
September 16th, 2010 at 8:49 PM ^
but Dantonio is an un-wiped ass in my opinion.
Nuff said.
September 16th, 2010 at 8:58 PM ^
All the way! i hate everything about MSU..
September 16th, 2010 at 9:28 PM ^
Freekbass and the Irish all the way
September 16th, 2010 at 9:29 PM ^
for some reason i want them to win for long run. this was difficult though because i hate them both so much.
September 16th, 2010 at 9:29 PM ^
twice a year, ND and OSU.
September 16th, 2010 at 9:35 PM ^
cares? We need to beat them both.
September 16th, 2010 at 9:45 PM ^
i always think of how it will benefit M. when the benefits are somewhat ambiguous going into it i take a nap!
September 16th, 2010 at 9:46 PM ^
September 16th, 2010 at 10:33 PM ^
...MSU is your measuring stick? Interesting,... as long as you all aren't obsessing. That would be bad.
September 16th, 2010 at 10:48 PM ^
September 16th, 2010 at 11:04 PM ^
...don't take things so seriously.
Given all the talk for years that MSU doesn't matter, or can't ever measure up, etc., etc.... I find threads like this amusing. I must admit. A lot of thoughts and posts for a rival that supposedly doesn't matter.
I was just trying to make a joke, that's all.
ND and MSU has been more than just another game on the schedule for a long time. And I find it interesting that posters like you, not trying to flame... honestly, constantly need to try and remind people where the program has been. Today, here and now... the game in Ann Arbor is pretty close to even. Your history has nothing to do with it.
As for the media, Spartan fans have long used the term "Blue Wall" when refering to the Detroit coverage of UM versus MSU... and the assumed slant in favor of UM. It just depends what side of the fence your on as to how you see it.
Honestly, I "troll" if you need to call it that... to share thoughts and have a little fun. No more, no less.
September 17th, 2010 at 2:34 PM ^
And then you can talk about the value of your content. There's a way to come into someone else's house and act. And that doesn't mean not being all meek and mild, or not sticking up for your team. Look at Irish. He gets negs for his digs too, but adds value content otherwise, and has a healthy point total. You may not have had time to get there, but earn some cred before you feel free to take your shots.
And I was just sick that you turned it into the tired meme of "measuring yourself by us too", when it had nothing to do with actually achievement between the two, and more has to do with the media and Spartan fans perception that every time they win a game, boy, they're going to win the next one, and the worm has turned. I've heard to for over 20 years. It's not Michigan or Spartan bias (though there's one media source I think a pretty good case could be made for...but not overall) that I'm talking about. I don't think they're "rooting" for State. It's just a tired, easy angle media regularly takes. You've probably seen it in the other direction...when Amaker beat MSU in B-Ball, guys like Rosenberg and such were saying "Oh, the tide has turned, Michigan has caught up with MSU", and not only was that premature, it was obviously not the case.
I'm not one on here that (probably tongue-in-cheek) is going to take the attitude that we're going to roll you in October. There's talent on that team. I think Dantonio is basically a good coach...I'm just not a fan of him much as a guy. But then, I haven't particularly liked any of your coaches that much since Perles (who had his faults, but I think was basically a stand-up guy). I mean, I didn't dislike John L., but I can understand why you would if he was your coach. (But for contrast, Bobby Williams was worse, and I wasn't a fan of him much, either). It'll be a good game. Do I think we will win? Yes, because what's missed in this whole "here and now" theory is that the only things that have changed is MSU is a bit better coached (but was such a mess hasn't really had time to stabilize the program yet), and MSU won at U-M Stadium for the first time in 20 years versus the worst Michigan team, ever. (And you could probably go back even longer if you want to debate the veracity of the win in 1990...but that's just going in circles).
So, yes, when MSU wins one, I'd say I'd like to see them either win one here, which they finally did, or win 3 in a row up there, to show things have really turned to an equal or superior basis. History matters, because till you've had some time, you can't really show things have changed....because blips have happened for decades, without there being the major change you speak of. I'm sure if Beilein beats MSU this year, even twice, you're not suddenly going to think your program has fallen behind Michigan's (Because it will not have).
And they'll have that chance when they come to Michigan Stadium. Just like they might lose, then have all the pressure put back on them next year, with the threat that if Michigan wins in their place, MSU has dropped two in a row, with the next one at the other guy's place...which makes 2008 a blip, possibly makes Dantonio look at losing 3 in a row in the only thing that has kept him in MSU's good graces. That happens, and you might be looking for a new coach. But the latter is speculative. You look at college football as a Super Bowl, you win, and you're champion forever. I look at it more as a 7 game series, a history of punches and counter-punches. We've taken some hits, but we're not eliminated yet.
September 17th, 2010 at 4:25 PM ^
Not sure how to have "cred" and positive points when I've posted here all of three weeks. Hell, with the name "Sparty" that puts me in the negatives without trying. So, negative points in my case is a feather in the cap, no? ;-)
You can look at UM-MSU as a seven game series if you want to, and I get your point about "blips", but the simple fact that I can honestly tell you in return that I believe Michigan State will win the game in Ann Arbor should tell you something. That is what I meant by your history doesn't matter this year. This game, in three weeks, can go either way.
The talent level is on the rise in East Lansing, but have they put a season together yet under Dantonio when expectations are high... no. Do they have to prove it, yea. I get it.
Two thoughts on UM hoops... it was Rob Parker, more than anyone else, who played up Amaker. Parker and Izzo did not get along. And we've seen some further examples of his reporting in the Rather Hall stuff, with claims about Cousins' involvement.
And last year, better team/program or not.... MSU was more than fortunate not to get beat in Ann Arbor.
September 17th, 2010 at 4:54 PM ^
What's the Rather Hall "incident"? Is that the group attack of Spartan football players on attendees of a potluck dinner? I don't know that I'd used the term "incident". I believe the term "assault" works. "Battery" works. "Incident"...no, not so much.
Anyway, I didn't follow your entire back and forth, but generally one gets negative points here for posting nonsense (i.e. Mike Hart started the beef with Dantonio) or saying anything negative about RichRod. Positive points are often had for posting pictures of kittens or making solid arguments. Completely fair or logical? No...but it can be a nice place to get ones college sports fix during a long summer of baseball.
That all being said, MSU football has looked weak so far against poor competition. Your coach is more angry than good. If you can barely get by Boca Raton High School...in Detroit...you don't stand a chance against Michigan.
September 17th, 2010 at 5:20 PM ^
The Rather Hall massacre (better?) also followed a bar fight the night before where members of a fraternity, reportedly, jumped some of the players who came back at them the next night. (Winston) Does it make it right? No. But context.
It's not like somebody is randomly masturbating on porches, or sticking up cabbies at gunpoint.
You're right about MSU, they have certainly looked less than stellar up to this point. And you're right, we stand absolutely no chance against the new maize and blue juggernaut.
September 18th, 2010 at 1:39 AM ^
You'd probably have gotten pluses for taking it in humor and stride and throwing up a kittens pic. But then you have to go and compare a guy cracking an innocent bystander's skull, and coming right back to practice from jail, only to do it again, to a guy flashing his wang. I know which of the two I'd like to be subjected to. (One I can laugh at..the other sends me to the hospital).
The "sticking up cabbies at gunpoint" only works if he hadn't already been thrown off the team...kinda like If Winston had done it again, after he had been thrown off the team. Which he wasn't. Till after he did it again. And you can't really shout "CONTEXT" when you use statements like that...because he didn't really have a gun. But I think your context is just parsing words. Because just as the cabbie believed he was being robbed at gunpoint, and that's good enough, the kid with the cracked skull doesn't care that someone else incited this or that before. It's the end result, in both cases.
September 18th, 2010 at 1:33 AM ^
Trolls, which you say you're not, are the type that go on other people's sites and think things that cause negative points are a feather in the cap.
How do you have cred? You speak reasonably, don't take cheap shots, and prove to the members on the board that you're interested in serious discussion before you take your shots. As I mentioned, look up user "Irish", who's never going to be the point leader here, because as you say, his name, combined with remarks, will lead to the occasional negging. But he has thousands of points. Because in between the smack talk, he contributes valuable content to the board. We've also had a number of Nebraska fans around here since they joined, and while they have a difference of opinion on say, 1997, they bring up other stuff that is worthwhile.
Just coming around to feather you caps is just the road to banning. Bring some interesting insight or views, and earn the right to be a little douchey. Because at the rate you're going, you won't make it to the M/MSU game on these boards.
And I'm not and have never said you shouldn't believe your team can win. I mean, I have seen enough to know even in great odds, one's team can win in a rivalry game, so you should always believe that. And when the there aren't overwhelming odds against your team, it can even be based in fact. I'll say again, I don't think either team is blowing out the other. But the history is that MSU has had a lot games where they've come close...even in Michigan Stadium. And it hasn't worked out. I mean, by that reasoning, Michigan was Overtime close last year to beating MSU. But they didn't. So it doesn't matter. Like you say...maybe Michigan was close in basketball to beating them at Crisler last year. As probably a number of other times. But it didn't happen. And if it had, it would be something that happened in the "present", and here and now, and might make me think we have a better chance to win again. But it wouldn't change MSU being a talent rich, greatly coached, program with major success. It would mean we won a couple of games.
And Parker is and was an Ass, and he made up ridiculous crap about MSU (as well as others). And should have been fired then, (if not before), instead of waiting till the Lions debacle.
September 16th, 2010 at 9:48 PM ^
September 16th, 2010 at 9:56 PM ^
the only option for me this week is to root AGAINST MSU.
September 16th, 2010 at 9:58 PM ^
but enjoy the suffering of whichever team is losing/loses. one of them is bound to be miserable, so just forget what team is winning and enjoy the suffering
September 16th, 2010 at 10:04 PM ^
No question here for me. Go Irish! M is starting out 2010 on a roll... and I would love to see it continue deep into the season. I want the teams we've beaten already to do well (even if I do dislike ND very much). I want to believe we are for real and that what our O and D even has shown is not a mirage of wins over paper tigers.
I want some glaring weakness that MSU has to be exposed that we can exploit when we face them. At this point, I am more concerned about RichRod piling up wins and earning another year (actually years!) and M being relevant again. I certainly don't want MSU to be a problem for us. : P Simply put, there is not any way that I can root for MSU or Dantonio.
I really want ND's D to be pretty good so that Denard's and the O's superb day is legit in the big picture. 2-0 is a great start, but I would really luv to see 6-0. I want to drink the cool-aid deeply and see M back at the top. I am happy, but still remember last year. Honestly, I'm not really interested in having a good game when we play MSU. I just want us to beat them (41-21 sounds good to me) so Sparty can go back to being Sparty and we can move into contention for the Big 10 title. So yeah, it's hard to say... but 'Go Irish'.
Ugh. Really what I am screaming is, "GO BLUE!". Anything that continues the good feelings from the past two weeks, I am all over.
September 16th, 2010 at 10:15 PM ^
You can all debate who you dislike more, MSU or ND...
September 16th, 2010 at 10:56 PM ^
Thank goodness Winston's gone... he might smell blood in the water, and try to rip it out and eat it.
September 16th, 2010 at 11:31 PM ^
Hoping ND makes a good showing offensively to get a better idea where we are on defense. The winner? I can't force myself to pull for Sparty, but if they win it's good for the conference and I get to see Kelly pout some more. So it's a no-lose situation for me. ND wins and I get to see a stadium full of fans with sucks-to-be-Sparty looks on their faces.
September 17th, 2010 at 12:01 AM ^
My hatred for all things ND is partially sated by beating them. Now I feel that I can watch them win without throwing up in my mouth a little bit. At least for a week. After they beat down MSU, they can do the decent thing and lose the rest of their games.
September 17th, 2010 at 12:27 AM ^
Nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
September 17th, 2010 at 3:01 AM ^
Shit Storm
September 17th, 2010 at 11:16 PM ^
Honestly, despite all the "we don't care about Sparty" or "MSU", etc. statements, they ARE a rival and we care about beating them. It's just that historically they've cared a lot more about beating us.
I grew up in Michigan and lived the rivalry. There are lots of Michigan families, and Michigan State families in my area and I get it. It's important to Michigan, however it is only in the context of the rest of the rivalries that we realize it's not the #1 thing on the agenda.
When in doubt, I go down this list. Prioritize.
1) Ohio State- always, always, always root against Ohio State. Under no circumstances are you to root for Ohio State. Even if they're playing a SEC team or Satan. I don't care for the "Big Ten prestige" argument- did anyone else care about "Big Ten prestige" in the aftermath of September 1, 2007? No, they didn't. So why should we? So, as far as I'm concerned, to hell with Ohio State.
2) Michigan State- I can never really root for Michigan State in football either- again, would they ever root for us? Nope. So why should we? But I did watch them in some of their games solely for the sheer value of watching an entertaining trainwreck with Bobby Williams, John L and Drew Stanton. And even recently in the Carr/Hart era, I loved watching Dantonio scowl and get all pissy. So, yeah, it's not like I don't care about Sparty- I care about them for the entertainment value that they've provided in the past and even today, I find their obsession about all things Michigan football to be quite entertaining.
3) Notre Dame-They get a bump up to #2 if they're good.. which they haven't been in 17 years. The nature of this rivalry is my dislike (not hate) for Notre Dame and all the attention the Domers get in the media, and the single-minded coverage of Notre Dame in the media and NBC. The fans I know are mostly decent guys but they have this over-inflated image of the football program, that they deserve to be great. As we very well know with our own troubles in the Rodriguez era, tradition doesn't automatically ensure football greatness. But the fact remains that I dislike Notre Dame. But I don't dislike them enough that I would root for USC or Michigan State against them.. I've found myself rooting for the Domers versus USC, for example.
4) Everyone else- really depends on how good they are at the time we play them. Minnesota has been lousy as of late, but we do play them for the Jug. Penn State has their own bones to pick with us of course but I respect them more than most of the other teams in the Big Ten. But this is a vague category.
Therefore, I'll be watching. But it's a win-win situation for me. One team will lose and it's guaranteed to be a team I dislike. So I'm OK with it. I'll just be smiling a little wider if Sparty self-destructs (Sparty, no!) and loses to the Domers.
September 18th, 2010 at 1:15 AM ^
I'll be rooting against nd more than sparty because nd is 2nd overall in all-time winning pct. We've got a ~0.003 edge on them, but they're an independent so they can go with a weaker schedule whenever they want. We're stuck with osu, psu, neb, uw, iowa, etc. basically real teams. I'd prefer to stay #1 in all-time winning pct. even if it means rooting for little brother once a year.
September 18th, 2010 at 2:53 AM ^
I dont think Michigan state fans and/or players would ever root for blue to win. I usualy want all of the Big 10 teams to win all of they're games and for michigan state to lose all of they're games. I just dont like michigan state at all. I dont even like people who wear michigan state shirts. Lets go Nortre Dame!!! Dantonio sucks!!!
September 18th, 2010 at 2:57 AM ^
Y'all think Sparty coaches noticed who was woozy last game ? How many blitz packages are in store for poor Crist ? ALL ND's QB's will be pressured ALL game long, MSU will control the tempo and rush for 150+ yards, and Sparty will walk away with a double-digit win. God bless poor Crist.
September 21st, 2010 at 6:11 PM ^
but now im glad MSU won, cause I'll feel that much better beating them if their undefeated.