UM with 6 first rounders since 2013 if DJ selected,
If DJ is selected in the first round of the NBA draft, it would mean 6 UM players have been selected in the first round since 2013. For comparison, excluding this year, only Kentucky and Duke have had more than 6 first rounders since 2013.
UM is a basketball factory.
Can't wait to hear Maizen's take.
"if we would have had a tougher schedule, DJ would be in the top 5"
also, this was fun to dig up
There's a lot of group think that goes on in this community and when someone doesn't engage in it they get called out and negged into oblivion. I'd rather have honest discussions and say what i think even if it is unpopular. I'm not always going to be right, but at least I put out there what I believe. Moreover, how said it is that someone is so bothered by what me or Yost or anyone else says that they feel the need to start an entire thread about it. Yeah, you the real MVP.
Then you would not be negged and attacked all the time. But when people question your opinion, you attack them. Trust me man, we didn't all start the aggressive behavior, and the fact that you have 3 upvotes and only 1 downvote(as of now) on this post shows that many of us, including myself, are willing to let it go and give you another chance. I totally agree that there is some degree of groupthink on this blog(when isn't there groupthink when a bunch of like-minded people gather?), but there has definitely been some interesting and tame discussion between commenters here that have differing views. When you comment/post..... that does not happen. Instead of blaming everyone around you, maybe you should look at the one person that seems to bother almost everyone else. Not that I really care about you, to be honest. But I do care about Mgoblog and would love to have serious conversations about Belein and his awesomeness, but also his deficiencies. I think that has happened a lot. Other people mention that Belein doesn't recruit well and he schedules too many dandys(dandies?) on the schedule, and we have civil conversation about it. But you phrase it as if you dislike Belein and are searching for his faults all too often, so the logcial conclusion that many of us make is that you have some vendetta against Belein. I know you say after the fact all the time that you have admitted your mistake in attacking Belein earlier this year, as many have. But you never start with any of his good qualities or even mention them unless we force you to. I don't know why I just wasted my time typing this, because honestly, I just expect you to attack me for saying this. Might as well hit save since I got this far....
wasn't expecting that to get so long....
I'm pretty sure The Fugitive IS THE MVP for those posts. Those are fucking hilarious man. Yost owned up to it and took it like a man. Read the comments from the post about you. You would be a lot more respected if you could accept it like Yost did instead of making fun of an objectively funny poster and post. Going back through all that was awesome. We all owe The Fugitive for the work he did with those posts. Makes Mgoblog..... Mgoblog
But you never start with any of his good qualities or even mention them unless we force you to.
Note to self, start chortling.
But FTR it doesn't bother me to get negged. I don't even undertand the purpose of voting on posts unless the goal is to make someone feel bad or good for expressing an opinion. You say i attack people but I'm called a troll, asshole, douchebag, prick, etc on a weekly basis and for the most part I let it slide. Have I clapped back a couple times? Sure, but any normal poster would. If someone doesn't like my viewpoint on a topic or doesn't like me for whatever reason then the easy solution would be to not engage in conversation or just neg me and hope I feel bad. You keep talking about Beilein but there are a million other things discussed on this board that I partake in that no one seems to have a problem with. Why is it that.
"If someone doesn't like my viewpoint on a topic...the easy solution would be to not engage in conversation or just neg me and hope I feel bad."
Generally the point of a message board is engage in dialogue. If two people have conflicting viewpoints, one of the main reasons message boards exists is to give people the opportunity to discuss those viewpoints. If your attitude when posting is don't respond unless you agree with me, and then when people do disagree you get combative and agressive, yeah you're going to be called a troll.
"You keep talking about Beilein but there are a million other things discussed on this board that I partake in that no one seems to have a problem with. Why is it that."
Probably because you're not being combative when you're not talking about Beilein? I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. It's possible for people to disagree with you specifically about Beilein, so that's what gets brought up. It's possible you're only combative about Beilein, so that's what gets brought up. It's possible that since you're overly negative about Beilein that's the only thing people think about with you/the only thing you're notable for to them, so that's get brought up. There are a ton of reasons why that could be.
Overall, you're one of the more critical people of Beilein. Some of those criticisms are completely valid. You do get negged unnecessarily because of who you are. And this site does get overly critical/neg happy when people criticize Michigan (I've had it happen to me before). But some of your criticisms are complete stretches. You very rarely admit when you're wrong about past Beilein criticisms. You get really agressive really quick (about more than just Beilein, the Frank Clark shit recently comes to mind).
So yeah, you do have some valid points, you do get criticized/ignored for some of those points, your complaints are valid there. But you're also incredibly combative/aggresive and people who ignore you because of that/your extreme negativity are right to do so as well.
And just to clairfy: you don't have to care. You can be as negative/aggresive as you want and good for you. But if you do that and act like an internet tough guy, you don't get to complain about being called a troll and having the valid content of your posts ignored. It comes with the territory. How you post dictates how seriously people take the content. And it doesn't help that you also have some takes that are critical to an extreme that take away from your valid points.
Who is complaining? Who is acting like an internet tough guy? Who is being aggressive? I'd argue the posters calling me an asshole, prick, troll, douchebag, etc fit that description much better than I do. I'd argue the posters who actively auto neg fit that description better than I do. If you want to neg bang me do it. If you want to call me names do it. I don't care. There are more important things in life to be worried about than what an anonymous screen name is saying behind their keyboard. And unlike them I've put my name and personal twitter out there for everything I've said. How many of these other posters lobbing smack at me from the cheap seats can say that.
I've explained my stance on JB time and time and time again. How many times do I have to say I'm glad his team proved me wrong last year? A million? Because that's what it feels like. It's sad something like this keeps getting thrown back in my face. It's sad there are so many posters unable to handle anything remotely negative said about their precious Michigan sports teams, which is why someone like Marcus Ray gets so much hate here. The fact that some posters are so invested in what I have to say is a much sadder indictment on them then it is me. It wasn't my intent but can you say trolled much?
I don't think my takes are that extreme at the end of the day so we'll have to agree to disagree on that front. I think the drama queens react to them in an extreme way which makes it seem more polar than they are. Regardless, people's sensibilites are getting offended way to easily. It's a sports blog. It's not that serious.
I am pretty sure his take would be that Michigan basketball will never operate where it could until Jim Harbaugh proves himself and wins a championship. He will use Urban Meyer's success at multiple programs as evidence that Michigan basketball simply is not there yet.
Am I doing this right?
Would probably be along the lines of, any player who is a borderline first round pick seems to always jump ship at first their first opportunity, which then leads to gaping roster holes and unclaimed scholarships as Beilein never seems to account for his own ability to develop said players into fringe first round NBA picks. All of which is of course valid.
Spot on. Beilein is a top 10 coach who tries to win with top 40 talent. What's Michigan's recruiting class ranked again this year? JB signs one top 10 class and immediately goes to a Final 4. No one is questioning his eye for talent or his ability to develop players. He's second to no one in college basketball. Getting enough of them here year after year after year is another story. I've always said the only difference between the DJ Wilson's and the 1 and dones are the two years on scholarship Wilson did absolutely nothing.
And we all agree on that. But Belein just can't recruit at the highest level for a bunch of factors. Yes, most high school kids probably don't think he is as cool as John Calipari. He doesn't have the track record of Coach K or Boeheim. He doesn't have the bag men backing him up as any of those guys. So he is going to have to do what he does with the talent that he gets. Bitching about the possibly greatest coach in UM history's one flaw, even though it is something that he can not change seems a little ridiculous. Not that you were doing it directly right there, but we all see the backhanded compliment "Top 10 coach who tries to win with top 40 talent". You think he just chooses not to land the most talented players because he doesn't want them? You really think that?
Yes, I really think that. I think he despsises the 1 and done and wants very little to do with most 5 star players. I think he's most comfortable recruiting in the 75-150 range against lower power 5 schools and high mid majors. The fact that he's still lamenting losing DJ, Hardaway, Burke, Nik etc early says a lot.
This is like asking why does it matter if you recruit like Nick Saban when you can recruit like Mark Danotnio. I'd rather try and win with top 10 classes year after year after year then top 50 classes. The 2013 class was incredible but it's also the clear outlier in his 10 year UM career. Funny how no one talks about the Doyle, Chatman, and Dawkins class anymore. I don't think it's outrageous to expect JB to pull in a top 15 class every year and sign more McDonalds All American than zero. JB will continue churning out pro's because he's that good at development. He has always done more with less, I'd like to see him do more with more because I think he's a top 5 X and O's coach in the game and that's being wasted to a degree when you are at a talent disadvantage vs many top 25 teams. It's like putting a bad engine in Jeff Gordon's car and asking him to outrace everyone. Doesn't matter how good of a driver he is because at some point he's going to need the horsepower to win the race.
Actually we are. 5 of the 6 1st round picks Beilein has produced came from one team. What about the other 8-9 years?
And again, how many times do I have to tell you that I don't care if people give me shit, so why the hell do you keep bringing it up? It doesn't upset me. Give me as much shit as your little heart desires.
The fact that you are pointing to MAAR as some proof positive example that we don't operate at a talent disadvantage against most top tier teams is about the funniest thing I've ever read on this blog. "Hey guys, who cares if 60% of our recruiting class bombed out, look at MAAR!" Solid argument there.
but as much as Coach B gets credit for development our top picks are at best roll players in the league. Nik 8th pick in the league averaging under 10 points and shooting under 40%, Trey 9th pick barely hanging on in Washington, Caris 20th looks promising, we won't discuss Mitch as I'm not sure he will ever make it back, THJ 24th and the best career so far.
Which 5 man class are you talking about? At most 3 1st rounders in one class, Nik, Caris, and Mitch. Trey and THJ were different years. Kentucky has had 3 players from the same class numerous times and their players have been successful. Dukes's 2014 class has a chance to go 4 for 4 depending on Grayson Allen.
If you honestly believe JB is a better recruiter than pretty much every coach in basketball than I have some ocean front property for you in Arizona.
Kentucky has three Final Fours, including a title in 2012 with that first round talent.
Duke has a title in 2015 with that first round talent.
I mean...Yeah, that would kinda be a good response, right?
Why?
it would be a travesty and a sham and a mockery if DJ isn't selected in the 1st.
I really think that good players who will stay for 3-4 years will be more productive in his system.
Odd take.
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That's not really a fair comparison. Kyrie would have probably been a top 3 pick in 2010 if he could have gone straight to the NBA. Once he had the foot/toe, sitting out was the right call....just look at what Caris had to go through.
No he wasn't. He's an example of how Beilein can take a raw player and turn him into a contributor. At best, he would have been a 2-and-done player.
I think we would've done just fine if Miles Bridges (1-and-done talent) was on our roster. Same goes for Mo Bamba.
He's gonna be so pissed when he gets here and find out everyone's talking about him.
Please?
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That's Beilein's fate at this point. Prove it every season.
Seasons mired in mediocrity should be at a minimum with his resources and coaching history. If we're on the bubble next February, it better be because we got bit by the injury bug.
Yes and no. With the amount of money he is being paid, the resources and infrastructure at his disposal, and - frankly - the UM brand that he could (should) leverage in recruiting, there is no justifiable reason for UM to be "mired in mediocrity." I find that pretty ridiculous.
On the same token, he's proven a few times that if he can string together a series of March wins, the majority of the Michigan Mafia will forget about February's mediocrity.
People seem pretty happy about Amaker's previous below mediocrity levels when Beilein loses in the first round.
I think it is a pretty apt comparison. There are more teams that can put together a first round player in basketball, and once you add in international players, it becomes tougher. And 2 less picks in the round.
There are certainly more players to be drafted in the NFL, but for a team that doesn't get any one and dones, and the drafting based on potential philosophy of the NBA makes this an astounding stat.
He also recruits guys that have the type of physical profile that the NBA loves, such as 6'6 guards like Nik and THJ, and skilled and long 6'11 bigs like DJ. So even if they aren't incredibly productive they're still drawing a lot of NBA interest because of their measurables.
It's amazingly sad how many posters are so concerned with what I think.