OOC Over - End of Vanilla?

Submitted by Drew_Silver on

With our out of conference schedule over, can we now expect an end to our vanilla play calling?  By vanilla I mean designed to win the game with talent rather than 'decided schematic advantage'

I want to posit that our offensive line play has been limited by our coaching staff's lack of concern over RPS wins losses in the OOC.

We saw one interesting play - the Morris pitch to Peppers - which was due to the fact Speight was dinged, not a desire to be unique.  (When can we expect the return of the full house backfield?)

It will be interesting to see what wrinkles come out against Penn St. / Wisconsin /Rutgers / Illinois

Any time the staff can get MSU to chase their tail in the film room and practice will be determiend by what they see on film in these 4 games.

Maryland / Iowa / Indiana will be the petri dishes for OSU

 

I believe the line will improve this week signifiacntly due to PSU being back on their heels trying to figure out what we are doing.  I believe the coaching staff will get them guessing and that will be the difference in the run game.

 

jmblue

September 21st, 2016 at 8:58 AM ^

 

We saw one interesting play - the Morris pitch to Peppers - which was due to the fact Speight was dinged, not a desire to be unique.

 

If that were the case, O'Korn would have come in.

EGD

September 21st, 2016 at 9:06 AM ^

It seems to me that against Colorado, M saw that the WRs were not getting open against CU's outstanding corners and that the edges were more vulnerable in the run game than the middle against CU's fireplug DTs. So we threw to Butt and ran sweeps & end-arounds. If that's "vanilla," fine, but I think that's basically the kind of playcalling we can expect to see from here on out: identify the areas where M is at an advantage or disadvantage, run plays that capitalize on the advantages and minimize the disadvantages. I am not convinced we have some Porsche 911 offense sitting in the garage and that we are out driving our stationwagon around because the competition level isn't strong enough yet.

EGD

September 21st, 2016 at 11:47 AM ^

Yeah, but the Florida game was a bowl game.  Obviously with a couple extra weeks of bowl practice you can experiment with things and add new wrinkles that you might not have time for in a normal week of regular season practice.

Another thing about the Florida game was that some of the schematic success we had came from breaking tendencies.  The most obvious example was probably the "where you at, Vernon?" touchdown pass to Chesson, which came on a double-move combined with a pump fake from the QB.  M had torched Indiana and Penn State with that same dig route and run it for a decent gain against OSU as well.  So when Hargraves saw Chesson make the in-cut and saw Rudock loading up to throw, he had to have read "dig" and jumped the route looking for the big INT.  If M had indeed been running that dig again, maybe he gets that pick.  But M broke its tendency there and made Hargraves look like a fool.  Well, you can't break tendencies until you first establish some tendencies.

PopeLando

September 21st, 2016 at 2:31 PM ^

Mara Jade on Grand Admiral Thrawn: "He has no patterns, no favorite strategies, no discernible weaknesses. He studies his enemies and tailors his attacks against psychological blind spots." Harbaugh is almost Grand Admiral Thrawn. Almost.

reshp1

September 21st, 2016 at 9:13 AM ^

I don't think coaches keep stuff in the garage as much as they have certain plays that they think will work against certain opponents based on tendencies. So when new stuff comes out every week, it's not that they've been saving it necessarily, but more that it hasn't been appropriate for the opponents thus far. Maybe with the truly exotic gadget plays, they'll keep stuff under wraps until they're in a tough spot. 

Lucky Socks

September 21st, 2016 at 9:18 AM ^

I think we mix in some looks - but only for the purpose of giving Chryst and others something to think about. We'll stay rather vanilla this week. And if you see something interesting on offense or defense, and it doesn't work, I don't think we'd call it a failure as long as it's on film to set up the wrinkle we want to use against Wisco or MSU. I expect to win handily. PSU people expect it too. Maybe close through a quarter but physically we pull away late. And I also expect to get a heavy dose of running game rammed down PSUs throats to try and solve some of our issues before Wisconsin.

Needs

September 21st, 2016 at 11:36 AM ^

This is a good game to get a measure of the running game's ceiling. Pitt ran for 6.1 per carry and 340 yards total, plus Penn State's likely down its three starting linebackers. Plus, this is Braden's third game back and he should have knocked the rust off. If UM struggles in its base run package, time to be concerned.

 

It'll also be a good test, assuming JD plays, of how much the early issues in the pass D last week are a concern moving forward and how much they can be chalked up to Lewis's absence.

schreibee

September 21st, 2016 at 2:25 PM ^

Weren't most of Colo's big gainers/TDs when getting iso on safties though?

How much does Lewis help that if alignments cause assignment confusion?

UCF caused the same confusion, but just weren't good enough to exploit until already way way down.

We had been warned of growing pains as the players learn this complex new D, and we knew we were fortunate the OOS opponents weren't world beaters. Colo gave us more of a scare than anyone was prepared for. In my mind there is NO WAY they are not better than psu. We will see....

Don Brown said he's not adjusting his schemes (simplifying Coyote has called for).

There is no way getting Lewis back is not a positive (if he's full go), but it's the assignments we've been biffing. Think back on Clark's amazing one on one coverage vs UCF that could have been a big play. Peppers had great coverage on a long pass...

I don't think we're gonna see a whole lot of our DBs getting tested in man. They'll try to confuse, our guys have to learn and adapt...

markp

September 21st, 2016 at 9:26 AM ^

I bet we see Peppers get 5-10 offensive snaps this week unless we run out to an early lead like 2015-Northwestern.

I also just realized Peppers already has 278 all-purpose yards this season. He has yet to tally any INT-Ret or receiving yards and he still has 49% of the 568 he had all of last season.  He's currently on pace to have over 1000 all-purpose yards and he's had two snaps on offense so far.

The more you break it down, the more fun it is.

Marvin

September 21st, 2016 at 9:28 AM ^

Vanilla is also common in early season games. We've been playing a lot of freshmen and they're not always ready for more sophisticated stuff. You get your "vanilla" packages down and then move on to more complicated play calling as the season progresses. 

 

Drbogue

September 21st, 2016 at 9:36 AM ^

The best way to get MSU to "chase their tail" is not to give them anything for the film room. It's to confuse them during the game - ala Peppers last year causing them to burn 2 timeouts in quick succession. You run the game plan you need to win the game. I would not anticipate much trickery for PSU, Wisconsin, Rutgers, or Illinois. We have distinct talent advantages over all of those teams. And besides, execution is what really matters more than interesting plays. Reps at running inside the tackles and running PA are far more important. Prove to MSU and OSU that we can impose our will and that has much more of an effect than preparing for 2-3 plays a game.

FreddieMercuryHayes

September 21st, 2016 at 9:38 AM ^

Personally, I would rather stay vanilla for as long as possible, unless certain wrinkles are a set up for bigger wrinkles against our best opponets.  I personally don't like the idea of putting weird things on film to make someone prepare unless it's truly a 'gimmick'.  I think it's better to surprise a good opponet with unexpected playcalls and tendancy breakers much like MSU seems to do against us every year.

mclub

September 21st, 2016 at 9:49 AM ^

I think you'll see more wrinkles in conference, as Harbaugh says, to put stuff on tape for other teams to think about.

In the big games, studying tape will work against Ohio State and MSU.

We roll out the same player package, from previous wrinkles, and run the real play we want to run. Not only is it an unfamiliar play, but film study and tendencies works against the opponent as well.



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BroadneckBlue21

September 21st, 2016 at 9:51 AM ^

How are WR sweeps and reverses and deep post routes vanilla? Of course they have not run everything, we hope, so they can set up different plays in future games, but the offense is as we see it. I don't think they're going to set up a bunch of dread options. We are going to continue to see Hill in short yardage/ goal line get carries, and we'll see them use that to fake and pitch outside when they see a stacked front. I don't think Harbaugh holds back plays, but he does use them only when needed, as we saw against Colorado. Adjustments when straight up manball isn't enough.

schreibee

September 21st, 2016 at 2:44 PM ^

My sense was the OP was asking when we'll start seeing the "Stanfordization" of the offense, not will we see more of the "Fun n Gun", maybe?

Concern over not being able to run was expressed, not over not being able to get the edge vs Hawaii, UCF & Colo.

I have loved seeing McDoom (it is time to either give that jet sweep a rest or come up with a variation - his last sweep was crushed by about 9 defenders). I LOVE seeing Jabrill get some touches. If we decided our D could afford to part with him, he could be like another Stanford McCaffrey. Chris Evans needs more touches, in space preferably. 

But none of those is really the Stanfordization that Brian has diagrammed to great extent over the past 18+ months. Getting that offense in gear and running smoothly is OUR ONLY TICKET to ever getting even with osu. We cannot outspeed them, not this year, not any time soon.

It's beating people up even when they are loading the box (hello UCF) that gets Stanford wins vs USC, Oregon, Iowa, even a narrowest of possible margin loss to msu's best team in generations in the Rose. I think it's time to show some of those wrinkles, take those out of the garage and see if they run!

allintime23

September 21st, 2016 at 10:13 AM ^

I hope you're right about the O line but I don't think that's entirely the case. I do think defensively we haven't seen anything yet. I also don't think Penn State will draw out the big guns.



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Kevin13

September 21st, 2016 at 10:31 AM ^

coaches are going to coach as the game goes and run just what they need to, to win the game. Colorado is a better team then PSU so I wouldn't expect to see a lot more. We did run in three different QB's last week to give teams something to think about.

Want to give future tough opponents something to think about without showing your entire hand yet.