OT- Game of Thrones S05 E04: The Sons of the Harpy
It's that time again kids! King Tommen is going for the record with Margaery and not really getting involved with learning how to be king. Arya couldn't part with Needle. Jorah impnapped Tyrion and is taking him to the Mother of Dragons. Here come the Sand Snakes!
Do you know why all the world hates a Lannister?
More a bunch of massive changes than anything else. There are only a couple major characters where they're supposed to be based on the books. The last scene was a major departure, since Barristan has important things to do once Dany's flight from the arena happens.
We are well off the fails.
Unless you're referring to the various hints as to Jon's parentage, which they're not outright confirming the major fan theory, but they are not at all subtly hinting at its validity.
It would seem his death may be to make way for Jorah's return to Dany's side.
Spoilers! Don't read unless you're up to date on the books!
A couple thoughts on the episode:
- The show certainly seemed to confirm the R+L=J theories. That being said, it seems like Martin has been willing to lead readers along a path before only to suddenly change course for the sake of surprise. I hope the showrunners will avoid this; sometimes surprise for the sake of surprise can ruin a story.
- I am disappointed with how Cersei's interactions with the High Sparrow have played out in the show. In the books she asks them to forgive their debt to them in exchange for rearming them. It's a pretty damn big deal to arm a completely independent army in your own city that you have no guaranteed control over. While we are shown more of her incompetence as the books go on, this maneuver in the show was a little hard to believe. She asked for essentially nothing in exchange for a pretty huge concession.
- While the outcome of the fight doesn't disappoint me, the way the fight went down in Mereen is a bit irritating. The Unsullied are supposed to be better fighters than they appeared to be, and why the hell were they running around with spears in a city like that? I'm not sure bringing a spear to a knife/sword fight in close vicinity is in line with what we should expect of the Unsullied at this point in the books or the show.
- Random question - was Melissandre trying to create some shadow baby ammo? I don't recall any attempt to do so in the books up to this point.
Like you mentioned, show Cersei is quite different from book Cersei. I think we are supposed to think she armed the Faith Militants basically as a tool for imprisoning Ser Loras and to piss off Margaery.
At this point, most of her actions in the book are driven by paranoia. In the show it seems like they are playing more to the petty struggles with Margaery.
"Petty struggles"?!?! Are you kidding me??!?!
We're talking about who's going to be the power behind the Iron Throne (or at least who can best manipulate the king). While the catty wordplay may have gone on a bit too long, the stakes couldn't be any higher.
I can say why I think it is petty, but it might give away how this season might end.
"At this point, most of her actions in the book are driven by paranoia"
And also her ego leading her to believe that she can rule better than she really can. She thinks that she can make these complex tactical moves when she can barely form a cohesive strategy. They play this off in the show as her trying to remove opposition on the small coucil, which is close, but still not quite what's in the books.
... seemed to definitively answer the question regarding Selmy's fate
This made me laugh.
I gather that most of the people that finished book 5 around the time it came out share a similar opinion / disdain for Martin.
In fact - do you think Martin's inability to finish the books will cast a dark shadow on the show? I can't imagine too many long-time book readers will be happy when the show finishes 5-6 years ahead of the books (if they ever finish...).
The bigger issue for me is how little has actually transpired in the 4th and 5th books. I enjoyed the 5th book more than the 4th, but when I finished that last POV I was very disappointed with the realization that so little had happened. He needs to stop introducing new viewpoints, and the fact that the show has eliminated so many of them already is indicative of how important those new stories must be in the long run.
Is the argument that the writers will run out of "published" chapters of the Game of Thrones? Or that they will run out RR Martin written content?
I think it's valid that the next books may not be published before the series concludes. However, does this mean that the show is being producing in a vacuum?
If the writers and Martin have made these statements, please let me know.
Barristan in the show:
Old and wise; likes to recount stories of Rhaegar; Walks the streets along when he clearly knows there's unrest and he is old; gets boxed up in a narrow alley where his long sword will be much less effective; (likely) mortally wounded by a bunch of weird-ass no-name fanatics.
Barristan in the books (SPOILER ALERT SPOILER ALERT SPOILER ALERT SPOILER ALERT):
Old and wise; Takes over leadership after Dany departs; Unites almost all factions (the Shavepates, Stormcrows, etc); Kill elite bodyguards with ease; Prevents coup d'etat by preemptive strikes; Leads the defense of Meereen with strategic vision; Personally trains, encourages and inspires new recruits; Lead the vanguard soldiers and recruits to giant battle outside walls of Meereen. (End of 5th and beginning of the 6th book)
Yeah, my feeling like yours: as Jesse Pinkman used to say, WHATEVER, MAN.
Vague speculation on where the show might go based on book info below:
I have a feeling D+D are cutting through the famed "Meerenese Knot" with an axe and not playing the little game Martin did in the books by drawing out an insanely boring and overwrought timeline. Therefore as important Selmy is to the events in Mereen, if they decide to not even have events in Mereen he may become far less important.
were alluded to in Episode 3.
I liked the episode, and was a little leary after the last episode that the Sansa Ramsey story line would lead to nowhere remotely good, but I think this could be a very interesting storyline. Overall, a very good episode, much better than the 3rd ep, but found it hard to believe the sons of the Harpy would take out the unsullied soldiers and berestan so easily. Can't wait until next weeks episode. Thankfully we have this show on until True Detective and Hannibal come back in June, and my favorite show Person of Interest finale is on tomorrow. Good stuff all around.
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Read the books and am very satisfied with this season. Love it, even. It's departing, but they are different beasts as required by the medium.
So far I really like what they're doing. There is just a ton of fat in books four and five that they're either doing away with altogether or combining from multiple storylines. The bones are still in place, but it feels like this is what Martin would have written if he had an editor who would have been willing to challenge him over the past couple of years. Frankly, so far I like this version better.
Interesting thing I realized Barristan's death means (NOT book spoilers):
Barristan has been singing sweet songs (literally in this episode) about Rhaegar to Dany. The episode very obviously referenced the Lyanna story early and later had Selmy talking up Rhaegar. Dany believes Robert to be the usurper and evil. However, it is her brother who raped and killed Lyanna. It's Rhaegar that is responsible for that.
Barristan should know this (correct?) and has kept it from Dany. As has Jorah, it seems, though, Jorah was unafraid to talk more objectively about Rhaegar in previous seasons. Unless I'm wrong, book Dany has no idea about the Rhaegar-Lyanna story. [NOTE: I've read the books and don't remember if Dany knows about Lyanna - someone could correct me and mark it as book spoliery].
Would Dany believe anyone that tells the truth about Rhaegar? What happens when Tyrion meets Dany and says "your family was fucking crazy?"
Barristan's death means a lot with respect to Dany winning the hearts of the Westerosi. She wrongly thinks people are praying for her return and Barristan might have been the only one left she trusts enough who could have shed a more accurate picture of current Westeros.