Sources: Stalions bought 30 tickets over 3 yeara
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/38727023/u-m-staffer-bought-tickets-11-schools
Sources caveat applies but this provides more insight into the complaint.
October 23rd, 2023 at 3:34 PM ^
Well, they can't do anything with THIS season other than vacate wins retroactively. The investigation process literally can't move fast enough for that.
October 23rd, 2023 at 3:26 PM ^
I don’t know what to think now. That sounds… not great.
October 23rd, 2023 at 3:26 PM ^
The story is back 2 back investigations from an NCAA that does an investigation once every 5 years on nobody important.
Michigan is on top so here they come.
You could find something on everyone. See OSU funneling 13 mill to recruits.
October 23rd, 2023 at 3:41 PM ^
The Copium is really strong with this one.
October 23rd, 2023 at 3:27 PM ^
oh for fuck's sake Cooper Stallions what are you doing
October 23rd, 2023 at 3:31 PM ^
seriously?? Connor was using Cooper as an alias? Dude.... couldn't you have used Doug, Larry, Sebastian????
October 23rd, 2023 at 3:28 PM ^
Yeah that's really really bad. Hope that he was a rogue operative, and either way, clearly he's a fucking moron buying the tickets in his own name
October 23rd, 2023 at 3:38 PM ^
If everything in this article checks out, the best case scenario is that Stalions admits to the NCAA that he did this on his own accord with no input or knowledge from Harbaugh or any other coach and was also not reimbursed for any expenses. Genuinely curious though, there have been 5,869 articles on this subject yet I can't find one that actually says what the punishment is. Does anyone know? Or is this going to fall under some general ethics/sportsmanship clause?
October 23rd, 2023 at 4:11 PM ^
I saw in an Athletic comment that someone mentioned Baylor also had a similar violation in the past, and that the penalty was minor. But that's all I've seen/heard with regard to penalties/previous violations of the rule.
October 23rd, 2023 at 4:14 PM ^
The Baylor punishment was a half-game suspension, but the violation was nowhere near as serious. A staffer was at a single game of an opponent and had a plausible explanation for why he was there. No allegations of sign stealing, just a single game, no clandestine angle.
October 23rd, 2023 at 4:11 PM ^
There's no set punishment. But I fear the obvious choice would be vacated wins. Unless somehow, someway this little operation didn't result in a competitive advantage.
Also, a well-deserved show cause for Mr. Stallions and anyone else who knew/participated. After the NCAA is done, I hope the University destroys him. He very well may have single-handedly ruined the best three-year stretch in our modern history.
October 23rd, 2023 at 5:03 PM ^
What good does this guy falling on the sword do when the NCAA already thinks Harbaugh is a liar?
October 23rd, 2023 at 3:29 PM ^
Isn't this what we expected? M staffer, on his own (likely) purchases tickets for friends to go scout future opponents. The only difference from "illegal" to "legal" is that this was recorded with an Iphone ahead of time. I guess I fail to see the giant uproar.
The NCAA is expected to receive video evidence this week of illegal technology used in scouting tied to tickets purchased by Stalions, according to sources. An opposing Big Ten school looked up in-stadium surveillance video from a game earlier this year, and sources said the person in the seat of the ticket purchased by Stalions held his smart phone up and appeared to film the home team's sideline the entire game.
October 23rd, 2023 at 3:32 PM ^
I have two questions that I feel like haven't been really answered to my satisfaction.
- What is the actual penalty for in person scouting?
- How much of an actual, quantifiable, advantage does something like this bring?
October 23rd, 2023 at 3:35 PM ^
IIRC, the rulebook does not define a specific penalty for that. Which could either be a really good thing (slap on the write and/or rules re-written/clarified), or a really bad thing (postseason ban on some future season), show cause for some coach(es).
October 23rd, 2023 at 3:37 PM ^
I don’t really think anybody knows. I think the team just has to play the games without concern for what is going to happen. It does not say there is any evidence related to this season at this point.
October 23rd, 2023 at 3:38 PM ^
1. The penalties are not stated
2. Really not much because teams, in theory, should be changing their signs every week. Which is why this whole thing is so infuriating. This clown is going to ruin our best three seasons for nothing more than personal hubris and ambition. After the NCAA gives him a show cause, I hope the University destroys him.
October 23rd, 2023 at 3:58 PM ^
I don't think teams change their signs every week. College is so limited int he amount of practice hours you have.
October 23rd, 2023 at 3:38 PM ^
My reading (from Dan Wetzel's reporting) is there is no associated penalty:
The 2023 NCAA football rule book addresses sign stealing in a general way under a section titled Prohibited Field Equipment. It states that “any attempt to record, either through audio or video means, any signals given by an opposing player, coach or other team personnel is prohibited.” No corresponding penalty is listed.
October 23rd, 2023 at 4:07 PM ^
If there's no established penalty, they'll probably default to "Lack of Institutional Control" or whatever the catch-all rule for coaches is when something loosely defined is violated. Don't know if the "lack of control" penalty is serious or not, or dependent on the violation
October 23rd, 2023 at 4:42 PM ^
Imagine keestering a bowling pin with no lube. Then make that thought 5 times worse. The damage is done to our reputation regardless of what comes out now.
October 23rd, 2023 at 4:28 PM ^
It’s clear proof of the rule being broken. Which would have been nearly impossible to do if stallions wasn’t an idiot.
And clear irrefutable proof of an ncaa violation means penalties. The question will be what is the penalties, my guess would be vacated wins
October 23rd, 2023 at 3:29 PM ^
Wow, he did exactly what every high school in the country does. If you aren't changing your signals every game then you're an idiot
October 23rd, 2023 at 4:14 PM ^
High School & Professional football both allow in-stadium scouting/recording of games. That's what makes this an antiquated rule & a proverbial "witch hunt".
Continue to refer to the 6-year timeline for an NCAA determination on Kansas Basketball as things unfold. If we get an in-season penalty, then everyone will know that this was all about penalizing Michigan/Harbaugh.
October 23rd, 2023 at 4:34 PM ^
that's honestly the most infuriating part of this whole thing. what stalions did at best helped michigan for a couple first half drives, if that.
October 23rd, 2023 at 3:29 PM ^
The stadiums have video surveillance on everyone throughout the entire game going back 2-3 years? That’s shocking.
October 23rd, 2023 at 3:35 PM ^
it would stand to reason that 'IF' you were doing this, you'd want pretty good seats, probably fairly close to the field, directly accross from the target team.... but stadium surveillance able to identify the actions of an individual attendee... in a crowd of ..... 40,000 or more?
Hmmmm
October 23rd, 2023 at 3:48 PM ^
They absolutely do.
October 23rd, 2023 at 4:14 PM ^
Which is interesting since the stadiums would almost certainly have cameras that capture the sidelines as well (beyond what the networks have at their own disposal). It may not be the most optimal views to see opposing signals, but in aggregate it would be more than enough.
If the ncaa is going to throw a conniption fit about some random people in the stands pointing cell phones at the sidelines, just wait until they start using AI and public source video.
October 23rd, 2023 at 4:48 PM ^
Yeah I find that weird too. If they camera footage of one guy out of like 50-100k people and you can clearly see what he's doing, why can't you just have cameras record a sideline see signals that way.
October 23rd, 2023 at 4:16 PM ^
My guess is the NCAA put in a call to their friends at the NSA and got the downloaded cell phone data from everyone who attended those games.
October 23rd, 2023 at 4:35 PM ^
i assume they can track the credit card purchase to specific seats and have camera footage for those sections.
October 23rd, 2023 at 3:31 PM ^
Well that's A) really fucking stupid and B) really not good
October 23rd, 2023 at 3:31 PM ^
I think we're effed
October 23rd, 2023 at 3:31 PM ^
So their smoking gun is the guy purchased tickets on his own dime and the people in those seats were using their cell phones during games? Boy they really cracked this case
October 23rd, 2023 at 3:34 PM ^
I mean, no disrespect, but it does seem like they actually cracked the case. They have a link between a Michigan staffer directing people to do in person scouting and evidence that electronic means were used. Assuming this is actually true, it seems like they have a very good case.
October 23rd, 2023 at 3:38 PM ^
Seems like you'd need more than grainy surveillance video of people using cell phones during games to say they used electronic means to do in-person scouting.
October 23rd, 2023 at 3:40 PM ^
People (in seats purchased by conor stalions) using cell phones during games (in which they appeared to point said phone at the home team's sideline the entire game)........that's what using electronic means to do in-person scouting looks like, yes
October 23rd, 2023 at 3:43 PM ^
You should maybe see what's on those tiny little cell phone screens first? Probably gonna be hard to do that from a surveillance camera that's a couple hundred feet above them.
October 23rd, 2023 at 3:45 PM ^
This isn't a court case where everything has to be proved beyond doubt.
If a person in Salions seat was pointing his phone at generally the sideline for the entire game, yes most people would agree he was videotaping signals.
Thats enough for them to come down hard on us.
October 23rd, 2023 at 5:30 PM ^
Well they took Stalions laptop so I would assume, if true, he's either got communications in there or the film they took itself.
October 23rd, 2023 at 3:41 PM ^
The article references video evidence that videos were sent to him. I think your point will be very easy to clear up.
October 23rd, 2023 at 3:39 PM ^
I dunno about a very good case. May be he writes for a blog. May be he wanted to get pictures of the people on the sidelines. They have a case of innuendo. Unless they have the actual videos of what he had, there is no proof. It is a good case of assumptions, so far. Just saying...
October 23rd, 2023 at 4:13 PM ^
Except for the part about "directing people to do in person scouting". Unless they can find any of those people and get them to talk, it's circumstantial.
October 23rd, 2023 at 4:19 PM ^
Electronic means to do what? They need to show proof that electronic data was captured by the people and sent to him (which they may have, we'll see).
October 23rd, 2023 at 5:13 PM ^
Not really ..
October 23rd, 2023 at 4:29 PM ^
That’s a very clear smoking gun
October 23rd, 2023 at 5:04 PM ^
I don’t get why y’all don’t understand that him buying the tickets is enough.
October 23rd, 2023 at 3:32 PM ^
welp.
October 23rd, 2023 at 3:33 PM ^
So he was doing this while was not even a paid employee of the university? Wasn't he still active duty military as of three years ago? He graduated from the naval academy 2017 I thought I read.