OT: Columbus Blue Jackets goaltender Matiss Kivlenieks dies from fireworks accident in Novi, Mi
Terribly sad, but not all that surprising with how many deaths and serious injuries fireworks cause every year.
10.1.1We should though.
Hahahahhahah.
No.
Although, Stalin approves your message MJG. Mao is waiting to see if you're serious.
So do cigarettes, alcohol, weed, and just about every other consumable product like ever.
Even donuts affect more than just yourself with insurance rates higher due to health issues.
Let's just do a little thought experiment, since I am so keen on these.
Your neighbor comes up to you, served in the military, super nice guy/lady and asks you very politely to not set off fireworks because it triggers their PTSD. Are you going to tell them to shove it because I'm an American and I have the right to set these off?
No, I would honor their request and not set any off.
I have never had that situation happen to me, but if I did, I would oblige. They're just fireworks; they're fun, but not that big of a deal.
I have tremendous respect for our military veterans. What they have done with their lives is far more important than anything I have done.
And this is EXACTLY why I do thought experiments like this, because they make people think in very specific matters, rather than throwing out broad scenarios.
I appreciate your honesty. And with that in mind, there is no difference in knowing about this vet or not knowing about this vet- the end result is the same- the benefit of that person.
Because honestly, this scenario happens far more than you'd believe, because the person in my example is a relatively common person.
For me, helping people or preventing harm FAR outweighs the benefits that fireworks bring, which is basically nothing.
Freedum!
If you are not a fan of fireworks or are fearful about the potential outcome, you do not have to purchase them.
Except many times the people being killed or maimed by fireworks are not the people purchasing or setting them off. Children from the ages 0-4 are the most likely age group to be killed or injured.
10.1.1Source?
Does the "responsibility" to learn to drive & demonstrate said ability to the satisfaction of "the government" before being legally able to operate a vehicle fall within your "personal liberty" scope?!
And if you have chosen to exercise those liberties by driving without said training or licensing is it now our responsibility to stay off the sidewalks?!
Please tell me in what significant way these 2 examples differ? ASIDE from the fact that very few vehicle accidents cause wildfires or traumatize animals which may be miles away?!
What about the jerkoffs who were lighting off what sounded like goddamn mortar rounds in front of my house all last night? They found a spot in the park across from my house but it was close to the street and therefore close to the powerlines. I kept waiting for an errant one to come and blow my windows out or take out the transformer on the telephone pole that was like 10 yards away from where they were shooting them off. After every boom, you could hear the capsules and other debris rain down on our houses. And of course they didn't clean any of it up and this morning the park was littered with this stuff. I'm fine with some fireworks but there were some really powerful and dangerous ones that should not be available to the general public. One kid burned his hand and went to a gas station to get ice.
Oh and at 1AM a different group of jerkoffs were out there trying to blow up a park bench. And then they got into a roman candle fight. If people weren't so stupid, we could leave the responsibility up to them. But sometimes the government needs to protect people from their own (and others') stupidity.
Your last sentence couldn't be more stale.
How so? Please elaborate. I'm talking about scaling it back just a little bit with some sensible regulation. I don't think that's unreasonable.
Prohibition didn't work. Neither will banning the sale of fireworks.
Fireworks that leave the ground are illegal in my state (Colorado). There were, of course, thousands of folks setting off fireworks that exploded above the ground last night.
Despite CO's ban ---- there are (1) all the firework stands and stores in Cheyenne, WY, (2) and the black market.
One regulation I would support would be a time limit on setting off fireworks. 1 AM seems reasonable to me. Folks who set off fireworks at 1:30 AM (or worse, I heard some at 2:30 AM last night) aren't really being that respectful of their neighbors.
So the alternative is... try nothing?
I proposed something to try ... it's right there in my post.
I would support banning certain kinds- no need for super loud and powerful ones. And 1AM is late, man. 10 is ideal, although it doesn't really get dark til 9:30 or so, so I'd propose 11PM.
But, I'm curious as to how strictly these bans are actually enforced. My hometown supposedly has a strict ban on them but the same dude around the corner spends a few hundred bucks and lights em off every year. As far as I know, he's never gotten a talking-to from the cops. Fireworks are a pretty easy crime to find. I would bet that enforcement is extremely low and there are very few tickets written each year - even in the localities with the hard bans.
Because just like in prohibition, if fireworks are banned there will a be hugely profitable underground fireworks racket, with serious, systematic violence that poses an overall risk to the public.
I would have to guess there would be a few people who would fight against the ban of fireworks, but people aren’t going to open up speakeasys to get drunk on bottle rockets. After a few years nobody would care if they had access to fireworks or not.
Your prohibition argument is the old false equivalence.
Edited: We are on the same page.
I think people will tire of trying to risk getting in trouble if the reward just is not there.
Fireworks serve no purpose.
Fireworks serve no purpose.
You keep saying this. They do serve a purpose - entertainment.
Entertainment is an important component of mental health. So there’s that.
Saying they serve no purpose is BS. It reminds me of people saying sports are dumb. And they serve no purpose. Or music. Or movies.
Licensed therapist here- fully understand the importance of getting away and finding entertainment in life.
I also understand that as a society, we need to do the best we can to protect people from things that can cause harm. Home fireworks typically last about 30-60 seconds and are absolutely minor in scale. If people truly enjoy fireworks and it brings them joy, they should go to a professional show where they get close to 45 minutes of entertainment for free and don't have to risk injury.
Music and movies don't sponatenously explode and cause injury to people. People understand the risks of sports. Comparing fireworks to these things is a bad comparison.
The benefits of the miniscule amount of entertainment from fireworks are overshadowed by the lifelong damage they can do, not only to themselves or others, but the environment.
"I also understand that as a society, we need to do the best we can to protect people from things that can cause harm."
This is the scariest thing you've said out of the plethora of posts saying the same thing.
No, belay that. You wanting to ban guns entirely is the scariest thing you've said. This is #2.
"Prohibition doesn't work, but I want a prohibition of fireworks at certain times."
That is an interesting take, nittany guy.
You know what I meant, but I'll rephrase it: "Full-scale prohibition won't work, but I'd support a prohibition on setting off fireworks at certain times."
The rules on alcohol sales, of course, are much like that. In my current home-state, I can go to a grocery store and buy alcohol anytime from now until 12 AM. After 12 AM, I can go to a bar and get a beer from 12 AM - 2 AM. I can't legally buy alcohol anywhere from 2 AM until 8 AM.
Similarly in other states.
Seems like a non-issue. Just wear ear plugs. Boom, problem solved.
Comparing alcohol to fireworks is also an incredibly stupid comparison, and you know it. You are smarter than that.
10.1.1Of course, if it’s illegal, people are still going to do it. That’s not the issue. There will always be assholes who set off fireworks even if they are illegal. But illegality sets a precedent - if you make fireworks illegal it sets a precedent for the sale and use of fireworks and over time most likely lessens their sale and use. And there really is no downside to making them illegal. As mentioned, they are detrimental to people, wildlife, and a serious fire risk.
When Colorado set that law, the state knew people would still use fireworks that left the ground, but if those people injure somebody or set something on fire, then they can be prosecuted, which deters the overall use of fireworks. A limit on the timeframe in which fireworks can be used does almost nothing. It’s lip service.
That's been tried too. Our township has an ordinance that prohibits fireworks after 11:30 at night. That doesn't stop some ignoramuses in my area from still shooting them off past 2:00. I complained to our township supervisor about these rednecks down the road from us that did this several times, and she said you have to call 911 and the officer (if he/she even shows up) has to catch them in the act before they can be fined the $500 or $1,000 in the ordinance. Otherwise, they just get a worthless warning letter. (As a side note, one December these same people accidently burned their own house down)
Prohibition didn't work. Neither will banning the sale of fireworks.
Ah yes, fireworks and alcohol. Famously similar things
Wicks should be longer
I know this will be unpopular to some here . Id like everyone reading this to go through and reread from the post where the person said we should ban fireworks . Now replace fireworks with the word guns .
When i did that in my mind the arguments were exactly the same .
Good point.
The dominant American cultural battle of the 2020s will likely be "safetyism vs. freedom." The scene was already set for it, but the pandemic really exacerbated it.
While I fully advocate for a large-scale banning of guns other than hunting rifles/pistols for home protection, the two are not comparable whatsoever.
Guns (generally speaking) do not self-combust or explode when used properly.
Fireworks can be used as safely as possible but it does not always matter- its an incredible condensed heating element in the hands of people who basically have no clue how to use them.
I wasnt trying to compare guns vs fireworks . It just seemed the arguments were similar .
The arguments are the same, they both should be banned, and people's dumbass arguments in favor of them are similarly...dumbass. They want their toys and fuck everyone else including the innocent people they're most likely to hurt.
Banning guns is in violation of the 2nd amendment. Gonna take a constitutional amendment to do that
So you don’t like guns, so no one should have them? Do you honestly think a gun ban is going to stop the people that shouldn’t have access to them from getting access? I have over 100 guns in my house, not a single one has ever hurt someone
Communism is fun, eh comrade?
Well sure but there isn’t a constitutional right to own fireworks
So NittanyLion is fine with shooting people, but only until 1am?
Cool.
Or shorter.
“That’s what she said”.
~Michael Scott
I mean possibly, but we still allow just about anyone to own guns, knives, dangerous animals, or numerous other dangerous things that cause injuries and deaths so...
Potentially a more compelling argument might be that the sale should be regulated more closely so that there are not so many malfunctions or defects put out into the market.
They’re already banned for individual use in certain states. I was in New England all of last week and Massachusetts/Rhode Island went out of their way to make sure you knew fireworks were illegal and you would be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law if you were caught lighting them.
But I think you’d have a very, very hard time convincing other states (particularly those in the South) to even consider the idea of banning fireworks. Much less actually getting legislation to the floor.
Second, is it about time to ban the sale of fireworks?
Banning minor explosives that serve no purpose but for entertainment? Ha this America, so of course not
"not all that surprising with how many deaths and serious injuries fireworks cause every year."
Yeah, okay....whatever. This is a ridiculously freak accident and incredibly surprising. Spare me your "save us from ourselves" anecdotal take on fireworks danger.
Dozens of people die every year from fireworks, so no, this isn't really that much of a freak accident. It would be more surprising if there weren't a bunch of deaths from fireworks every year.
There are also tens of thousands of people who are injured and maimed every year by fireworks. Statistically, children from the ages of 0-4 are the most likely age group to get killed or injured from fireworks.
This is far from an "anecdotal" take.
10.1.1On average, 8.5 die annually, so not "dozens" and nearly 500 die per year in car accidents (during the Independence Day holiday), so I suppose it's time to ban the automobile. You people are insufferable.
On average, 8.5 die annually, so not "dozens"
18 people died last year, with 16,000 hospitalizations from serious injuries.
so I suppose it's time to ban the automobile
I disagree with banning the automobile, but I agree with qualifying people to use it and doing many things to make it safer. Drivers licenses, thousands of road and car safety laws and regulations, not allowing drunk or high people to drive, etc. I'm guessing you hate these "restrictions on your freedom," too. I guess that's something we'll just have to disagree on.
You people are insufferable.
The fuck is this "you people"? Why are you being so angry and shitty to everyone? You doing alright, my dude?
10.1.1