24/7 Notes "The schools who cleaned up in the 2021 transfer portal"... will Michigan ever be allowed to compete?
The article (it's free, up at 24/7 Sports) starts ..."
It’s a new frontier in the world of college football and, following an uncertain and tumultuous year, the excitement has been building for a much more normal season.
The transfer portal has certainly been adding to that intrigue.
Programs have been able to rebuild in different ways, replacing departures with experience in this new “Free Agency Era” for the sport."
Is Michigan going to be allowed to actually compete in this era? Seriously seems like a self-inflicted weakness for a major, national football program like U-M to essentially self restrict their ability to compete for transfer talent.
The sport has changed and I'm pretty sure the coaches Michigan has hired (and Jim H) are ready to adapt. Will the "powers that be" ever allow it? Undergrad transfers shouldn't be this near-impossible.
Not true - he lost 18 credits. He was willing to do it anyway (maybe he had AP credits or took summer classes- not sure) but most kids won’t.
that doesn’t fit the hand-waving narrative, but thanks anyway.
Good fucking grief. Let the school have some academic standards that aren't what is minimally acceptable.
It's a *school* not a football minor league.
Except... it IS a minor league. That's the whole point. Be consistent one way or the other. Michigan has no problems behaving like a minor league for football via incredible facilities, coaches, a 115,000 seat stadium...
Well, there is a lot of money within and connected to Ann Arbor, hence the facilities obviously. The academic transfer issues are structural items at the university level that affect the athletic department (and every other department that deals directly with the education of the student body really). I guess my question would be this - what would you like them to do? What policy change would you recommend to them?
I'll confess I'll need to research it more but based on everything I've read from this blog and others...
1. The university needs to stop putting up roadblocks to student-athletes attempting to transfer into the program. This probably means accepting more credit hours and class equivalents. Again, there can and should be a reasonableness 'test' and I'm not seeking a last chance u vibe where any and all tattered transcripts are allowed in. But hell, if TCU can accept 3 undergrad transfers from various places, why can't Michigan (as an example)?
2. The university, as someone above mentioned, needs to accept that yes, indeed, there are going to be a few student athletes who transfer in, get 35-50% of their degree credit hours in AA and then get a Michigan degree. It doesn't cheapen the degree. I wholly reject that theory. All major football universities play in this space.
disagree with point #2 - i think a little bit less of ohio state / clemson / SEC degrees because they play fast and loose with academics and recruiting; at the least, those institutions are willing to place a greater emphasis on athletic success and are more willing to make tradeoffs academically to make that happen (at the least, they make more tradeoffs than we do here, transfer credits being a good example).
ohio state is an undeniably great university - but i admit that i think slightly less of the quality of an ohio state degree because of some the crap they pull.
i had a running argument with a sparty acquaintance who would say that every school was the same as every other school, that every school cuts corners to play great football, and that michigan was no different from msu. as an alum, i took that very personally - we didn't do that, and we don't do that, and that contributes to the pride i take in my degrees and in my football team. i don't want that asshole's perception to *ever* become reality.
i know we make some accommodation to get athletes *accepted* into school, but they still have to do the work once they get here. to me accepting transfer credits is very different - we're saying that work done elsewhere is equal to the work they would've done in ann arbor. i guess it's michigan arrogance for me to say that i'm not so sure that's true.
Explain how a young man who transfers into Michigan, gets like 40- 50% of his undergrad credits in AA, graduates on time and with a decent GPA in phys Ed or general studies or physical therapy... explain how on earth that "cheapens the university of Michigan degree"? How does this impact any other student? This is insane. This exact scenario is basically occurring already with many recruits across several sports I'm sure, not just football. So the university of Michigan's 'general studies' degree pathway... it's THAT much more 'academic' and rigorous then say, TCU or Miami? I'll have to see it to believe it.
A prospective employer makes their hiring decisions based on a variety of factors and nobody is arguing that the university of Michigan school of engineering start watering down admissions to bring in football ringers.
well, it's a good thing that i didn't characterize the argument that way, then!
the university has standards for accepting transfer credits. making it easier to transfer those credits for anyone is - again, by definition - a reduction in academic standards.
So admitting 5, 10 undergrads with transcripts that are less then stellar and/or probably less "well rounded" then the main population of undergrads isn't 'watering down' the U-M degree yet (oh, and putting them on a phys Ed degree track)... if 6 of these 10 transfer out and the football program seeks to receive the refreshed commitment of a similar undergrad transfer to replace the original signees... because this undergrad football transfer got 40% of his credits toward likely the same major(s)... this somehow cheapens the u-m degree?
Sorry, just don't see it.
I think we are trending this way. That our once elite football team is not as big of a deal like it once was. Soon we will be like Harvard. May we should just leave the B1G and joint the Ivy League.
The most recent portal guy didn't qualify at SDSU, so he went juco before landing at academic powerhouse Oregon State. I don't mean to disparage him, he may be a fine student; but to think that Michigan isn't willing to let players transfer in unless they're veritable Ivy Leaguers is flat out incorrect.
Wisconsin and Northwestern either don't relax the requirements for football players, or they don't relax them much. Every other school, Michigan included, is letting athletes in that wouldn't have a prayer if they were held to the same academic standards as the typical incoming freshman
This from a recent Rivals.com piece on northwestern university football: "There is definitely something to Farrell’s theory. Many of the so-called “academic schools” boast among the lowest numbers in their conferences. Stanford (23) has the fewest transfers in the PAC-12, and the third-lowest total in the nation. Vanderbilt (33) has the second-lowest in the SEC and Notre Dame (29) the third-fewest in the ACC."
Buy notice how even NW is using the portal to get new starting QBs each year now. Ryan Helenski a junior has transferred in to replace Peyton Ramsey, himself taking over for a previous QB transfer.
Yeah Michigan doesn't have any transfer QB's like Jake Rudock, John O'Korn, or Alan Bowman coming through the program to try to boost the position.
He is a grad transfer- not the same issue with transfer credits.
You are correct, but this gets frustrating to explain every time:
The challenge isn't with freshman admission (except for Xavier Worthy) or with grad admissions, it is with transfer credits, which the admissions office typically has ZERO to do with...
Its also not even a real problem for the 10% of transfers who aren't graduate transfer guys. In the last few years both mens and womens basketball have relied heavily on non graduate transfers in Leigha Brown and Charles Matthews. The only person whose decision this affecting is a person transferring after their junior year. I guess you could argue Michigan has taken themselves out of the market of guys going into their senior year who didn't graduate early and also plan to spend more than one more year in school before trying to go pro.
Good points in the responses.
Short answer: No. If they were going to "adapt", it would have been for this upcoming transfer season. It was the perfect opportunity.
Longer answer: No. And it's a problem, because the portal is becoming more and more important. That said, it's not in the top 3 of this program's problems, which are well-documented in many threads. But it is frustrating.
While it may not be one of the top 3 problems in the program on its own, fixing this problem would go a long way towards fixing those top 3 problems.
And on the 4,614,261,983th day the lord said "Let their credits transfer"
And thus it was so
Why adapt to changing times when you can always call on past glory to feel good about yourself? UM hasn't beaten OSU but twice in the better part of two decades and one of those only happened because Tress got himself in trouble. But, hey most wins and all.
No, our admissions is too tough. They can only get in as grad transfers. So we will miss out on a lot of players who could help.
This form of question is your typical troll/trap question: a bit like asking someone if they've yet stopped beating their wife. Really just a simple minded attempt to stir up controversy.
I'm proud to be an alum, I am proud that my son is also an alum. The school's academic standards have to be maintained unless we want to sink to the levels of our rivals to both the north and south of us.
I'm curious, Mr HighBeta, who exactly is our rival to the north?
I'm guessing you did not major in geography
“Mr HighBeta, who exactly is our rival to the north?
I'm guessing you did not major in geography”
Either this is a weird attempt at sarcasm or you seem to think MSU isn’t one of our rivals.
Lansing is northwest of ann arbor
Northwest is different than North
Thanks for listening
Northwest is still “north of us”
Thanks for listening.
He's obviously talking about UM Flint, not MSU ....
It is amusing to me that there are folks out there who believe the University of Michigan should somehow compromise its standards to make the football program better. I assume most, if not all, of them aren't degree holders. Most of us care about the academic reputation of the school and the football program is secondary to that. If you want to compare us to SEC schools then my recommendation is to become a fan of one of those teams.
There's that Michigan Arrogance we all know and love.
So... graduating 5, 10 football players a year/semester... guys who transfer in as undergrads... get 40-50% of their credit hours in Ann Arbor... work through hot summer months and long fall days to produce joy for thousands on Saturdays and millions in bankroll for the university (with which other student athletes get an opportunity to pursue their dreams)... this somehow dents the "academic reputation" of the university of Michigan. Riiiiight.
Among the schools that were listed in the article as "The schools who cleaned up in the 2021 transfer portal"...
USC
UCLA
Miami (YTM)
Florida
Did these schools somehow compromise their standards by letting 4-5 undergrad football players transfer into their school without setting them back one or more semesters in progressing towards their degrees?
Michigan is what it is. Fans need to accept Michigan will never be like OSU or Alabama or any other school where the priority is to win above all else. The culture just won't permit it and the program is geared to attract a certain type of player that wants what Michigan offers not just for football but for it can offer it for life.
I assure you Michigan does the same things the big boys do that are not condoned by the NCAA--Alabama, Clemson, and osu simply have figured out how to maximize those advantages in a way to avoid getting disciplined. The NCAA is about money and as long as the money flows, blind eyes will follow. Michigan is simply being led by those either unable to do what is necessary to excel--so be it. Pretending that Michigan always takes the high road just makes the fanbase look uninformed.
We lost far more players this offseason in the portal than we gained. This is going to be a big issue as time progresses as you lose experience especially on the bench.
What can be done about it? I don’t know, it’s above my pay grade to figure out that solution but it’s a glaring issue that’s going to be an issue at some point. The only way to make up the deficit in number of players is through recruiting, but eventually that can mean very young teams year after year.
Who cares
Um, clearly college football fans and coaches... as this is a new era of player movement and the university of Michigan decides it would rather stick to some bizarre code and put itself into a tight box while programs across the power 5 adapt and get depth / new starters via the transfer portal. The whole goal of the transfer portal was to allow players at least some of the freedom of association as coaches, some of whom leave after just 3 months on the job for another job!
sheesh. characterizing the university's credit transfer policies - which, it should be noted, have fuck all to do with the football team - as a "bizarre code" really is the silly. it's an even sillier assertion when you say elsewhere in this hell-thread that you don't really know what the policies are in the first place.
The bizarre code is referring to the haughty, arrogance on display by some in the fan base.
Michigan accepts guys who likely aren't going to be admitted into Michigan if it wasn't for awesome football skills/potential. Can we acknowledge this basic fact? Some of these same guys choose to go into 'softer degree programs like physical education or physical therapy (nothing against therapists... we need you all). By softer I mean yes, probably less rigorous academic scholarship. Can we also acknowledge this fact? If 4-5 or 7 or 10 guys leave to transfer to other programs, how does replacing these undergrads with other undergrad transfers from Michigan's own peer institutions no less (Penn state) who may / may not have similar interests and degree choices but play football... how does that "cheapen" the U-M degree process in any way?
You need seven years of college education and a doctorate to practice physical therapy. But rest of the point, well taken.
This post has way too many positive comments for a post with zero substance and no link to mentioned article.
Plenty of substance. The game/roster management has changed. The player freedom of association/movement is here. The era of locking in young men to a program for 3-5 years is gone. Done. Dodo bird. Penn State is playing the game. UCLA. USC. TCU. It's beyond just ruthless SEC programs.
Will Michigan be allowed to compete? That's the point of the post. It should not be near impossible for undergrad transfers to come to Michigan.
https://247sports.com/LongFormArticle/College-Football-Transfer-Portal-…
You literally didn’t even provide the article in the OP which makes your post a bunch of gibberish.
“allowed” feels like a strange way to phrase it. I would say “able” is a more suitable word.
Michigan is not competitive right now in football because the football program is not a solid program. Whether it be recruiting, transfers, offensive and defensive philosophy, whatever. Any excuse you want to throw out, I will counter with the basketball program has all the same hurdles and has a much less impressive 'home' facility in comparison to the football program. The basketball program has even 'endured' a recent coaching change, hiring a replacement with no head coaching experience, and appears set to continue being one of the premier programs in college basketball for another decade. Jim Harbaugh has everything he needs to build a premiere program, he has just proven not capable of doing so. It is what it is---Hoke couldnt do it. RRod couldnt do it. I personally have decided to care about it as much as the administration of the university--with a contract extension, it was made apparent that mediocrity is acceptable. Thats why Ill be watching games from home--the product isnt worth watching in person.
Like the football program, the basketball program has largely been subsisting on grad transfers which has been discussed as being a different level of entrance than transferring as an undergrad. We've not had the same problem getting grad transfers in as we have undergrads.
As to your thoughts on Jim not building a competitive program, spot on. My question at this point centers around this thought: the recruiting and transfer game has changed. It has greatly affected Michigan because of the academic standards and transferring credits. Many in this thread do not want Michigan to change its standards, I get that thought and I don't argue that. The question is can Michigan compete with that handicap? If we continuously lose say 15-20 players a year to transfer portal while gaining back 5-10 while making up the roster shortfall with more freshmen is this a path to sustainable success? Will we be ok with being a middle of the pack P5 or B1G team? We like the success of other programs at Michigan, we talk about wanting to get better in football, so how serious are we about that and will the powers that be do something about it?
Someone finally said it haha. I read through this entire thread reading comments about "our standards are too high" and "we don't win at all costs and throw money around", and all I'm thinking is there is a #1 recruiting class in college basketball coming to the same campus right? I think Juwan built it the right way, but if you say football can't get there because they can't cheat, opposing fans are going to say ok so you can't in football but you can somehow manage to do so in the most corrupt sport in college athletics?
Kind of the same issue that prevented Xavier Worthy from wearing the winged helmet. We are going to regret that miss.
I could see this complaint if we were a really solid program that needed that extra boost to compete with Alabama/Clemson. Right now the football program has so many issues transfers aren't going to make or break us. Also saying that we aren't "allowed to compete" just makes us look sad and delusional.
I just completely disagree with the notion that easing up transfer acceptance for a few students a year is going to damage the school's academic status. Is Duke now a poor academic university because their bball team is full of players that dont play school or go to class?
Are people truly concerned that it would damage the value and integrity of their degree? Is your boss at the engineering firm going to pull you aside and say "I see your alma mater accepted another SEC undergrad transfer, we will be docking your pay permanently as we no longer respect the degree you got two decades ago."
Good grief.