Ride or die with Harbaugh!
November 2nd, 2020 at 7:16 AM ^
I just wanted to point out that normally these sorts of bounce-back threads don't happen until a few days after such a loss. I am impressed to see it this early, let alone at the top of the page (currently) on a Monday morning.
November 2nd, 2020 at 7:26 AM ^
Hope springs eternal! :-)
November 2nd, 2020 at 7:22 AM ^
It's very hard to imagine JH getting fired. If there has to be some major reshuffling this would be the year to do it. Nothing about this season is normal.
November 2nd, 2020 at 7:26 AM ^
Fasten your seatbelts, it looks like it’s going to be a bumpy ride through December.
If this is Jim Harbaugh’s least talented team (including his coaching staff) during his tenure, then shouldn’t his future at Michigan depend on whether he can pull off some miracles between now and the final Big Ten game? Not saying that he will do that, but at least willing to let him try.
The next test for Harbaugh is on Saturday against a good Indiana team that often has come close to beating Michigan in recent years, even when Michigan had a talent advantage. If Michigan throws out everything they’ve shown in their first two games and leaves Bloomington with a decisive win, then that would be the first step for Harbaugh in proving that he might be able to win when he doesn’t have much high-end talent. A decisive loss would be "not great, Bob!"
Considering the decline of Michigan football’s national reputation during the past 20 years, are there that many high-profile coaches who’d be willing to walk to Ann Arbor from say San Diego, or even Columbus or Detroit, in order to take over for Harbaugh?
After all the threads here speculating on who’d Michigan get to replace him if Harbaugh leaves, is there are any real consensus on who that person would be? Is Miracle Max available? Is Michigan football just “mostly dead”? Or should we start going through Harbaugh’s clothes and looking for loose change?
November 2nd, 2020 at 7:36 AM ^
After all the threads here speculating on who’d Michigan get to replace him if Harbaugh leaves, is there are any real consensus on who that person would be?
Nope.
There's been a lot of buzz about Luke Fickell on this site, but I was thinking about this for a day or so: other than his success at Cincinnati, what is Fickell known for coaching-wise? When Urban Meyer was at Utah he was known as an offensive innovator and killer of giants. Saban's reputation prior to Alabama was that of coaching and execution perfectionist. I can't think of any such label that applies to Fickell, other than "he's had a couple of nice seasons at Cincinnati."
November 2nd, 2020 at 8:46 AM ^
What continues to blow my mind on all these, "if not Harbaugh, then who" posts/comments is how damn irrelevant that question is. There are coaches out there who could overcome the administrative hurdles at Michigan to create a program that can compete with Ohio State. The fact I have no idea who they might be (and nobody else knows either) by name doesn't mean they don't exist. The hands-down 3 best coaches of this century in college football have been Urban Meyer, Nick Saban and Dabo Swinney. 2 of them were NEVER coordinators. A high-quality interview process will find one of these guys if you cast a wide enough net.
November 2nd, 2020 at 9:43 AM ^
This 100%. Due your damn due diligence and you can find a good coach. The problem is those making the decision are incapable of doing that. They will look for any excuse to find some guy with ties to the university when its those ties that are killing our program.
Hell, I wouldn't mind seeing Gattis get the nod for a couple of years and see what he can do. I don't blame Gattis for the offenses inability to score. We have seen the same issues on offense for years and Jim has gone through 3 Offensive Coordinators..What does that tell you? It tells you the issue is Harbaugh, not the OC.
November 2nd, 2020 at 8:33 AM ^
I'm ambivalent at this point. Unless there's a clear upgrade from Harbaugh I'm not sure what you do, lest you risk more Hoke and RR type years. Is Urban Meyer coming to Ann Arbor? Nick Saban? Dabo? Probably not.
November 2nd, 2020 at 8:49 AM ^
Complete culture overhaul needed. Anybody who utters the phrase "michigan man" needs to be far away from the next coaching search. 100% house cleaning. Let the new coach decide if he wants any of the current assistants, but I would hope he wouldn't.
No more defeatist "RichRod 2.0" BS. Hoke, now Harbaugh. 10 years of the same manball, bo quotes, and living on championships that no current fans were alive to see. Enough. Go full football factory or just admit you don't care as long as the AD is profitable.
November 2nd, 2020 at 9:01 AM ^
Good for you for being able to stick with Jim but I have reached the end. 6 years in and there is still no identity, you are running a defense that has been the same for 5 years yet somehow you are unable to recruit well enough to reload. They were flat emotionally, out coached and out played. Jim has a ton of inexplicable losses, but no real signature win. He just lost to Mel Fucking Tucker who took over as the pandemic set in. Are you fucking kidding me? 6 years. Jim is a fraud
I have accepted that we are not very good and will most likely watch still, but, the next step is apathy. Change is needed
November 2nd, 2020 at 9:09 AM ^
I would like to see Coach Harbaugh show the same hatred for MSU and OSU that Devin Bush showed when he chewed up the Sparty logo. There's too much respect and not enough tear your arms off and beat you to death with them. Maybe Jim needs to stop with all his social justice and start coaching football.
You mold boys into men by showing them how to win.
November 2nd, 2020 at 9:10 AM ^
Regardless of what happens this year, he'll get another shot in 2021 due to Covid. After all we might look a bit different if we had Nico & Ambry. But, 2021 will have to be a good year for JH to avoid getting lots of heat.
November 2nd, 2020 at 9:10 AM ^
Michigan without a doubt needs to get rid of Harbaugh. We are all Michigan fans because we remember the tradition, winning etc. My son, now 13, has never experienced this. He sees Alabama, Ohio State, Clemson winning. Those will be the teams he, and all his friends, will cheer for the rest of their lives. Not a Michigan team that is always just meh
November 2nd, 2020 at 9:34 AM ^
Michigan, historically speaking, hasn't won on the same level as Bama/Clemson/OSU since WWII. This actually is no worse than the level they've played my whole life, expect:
- Can't split Big Ten Titles anymore
- Can't beat OSU
- 1997 team actually finished off their once in a decade unicorn season (2006, 2016 both fell apart at the end).
November 2nd, 2020 at 9:28 AM ^
Straw that broke my back. I'm done standing up for him. Before this weekend, you could at least say Harbaugh won the games he was supposed to win. He probably should be gone. He probably isn't going anywhere.
November 2nd, 2020 at 9:47 AM ^
I agree 100%, this was the straw. I don’t know how anyone can honestly say to themselves, or anyone, that he’s still the guy to lead this team.
November 2nd, 2020 at 4:19 PM ^
Sounds like this one was It for a lot of people, including me.
I have seen enough. Time to move on.
November 2nd, 2020 at 9:30 AM ^
I suspect that by the end of the season it will be apparent that Minnesota is really bad, Rutgers is far better under Schiano than it was under the previous coaches, MSU is not the cratered embarrassment so many assumed it was, and Michigan is basically mediocre.
November 2nd, 2020 at 10:44 AM ^
Already apparent
November 2nd, 2020 at 9:36 AM ^
This is year six for Gods sake. Do you honestly see us any closer to a Big Ten championship or beating OSU than we were six years ago. We are further away if anything.
November 2nd, 2020 at 9:50 AM ^
We are further away if anything
I don't agree with this. Harbaugh took over a 5-7 football team that was a national embarrassment for the Shane Morris incident. He's definitely further away from B1G championships than his 2015 & 2016 teams though.
November 2nd, 2020 at 11:19 AM ^
Yes, but the question should not be whether Harbaugh is better than Hoke. The answer to that is obviously yes. The question is whether we see the team continue to improve over time, and whether someone else can do better when given the same resources.
If you had asked me whether we can do better than Harbaugh before Saturday, I would have said not very likely. But Saturday was embarrassing. We were uninspired and undisciplined, taking tons of penalties. We couldn't do the little things, like manage the clock, or challenge a non-catch that could have changed the outcome. We also couldn't do the big things, like not run directly into the teeth of the one thing that MSU does well, or switch up defensive coverages. If you cannot adjust at all, you are going to get killed in today's game. I am not seeing any adjustments from this team.
Sometimes you get bad breaks and things don't go your way. But if the other team gives you opportunities and you are too stupid or stubborn to take what they give you, then that falls on the coaches. And in year 6, this is entirely Harbaugh's team.
November 2nd, 2020 at 9:37 AM ^
Does the football team have a mission statement? I tried to find one on google and could not. Or maybe goals for the next year like in a traditional workplace? It would be nice to see the expectations and what they are doing to meet their goals.
November 2nd, 2020 at 9:41 AM ^
If you’re ok with 10-3 as your ceiling, a perennial 3rd or 4th place finish in the B1G East, and rarely beat your rivals then he is definitely the guy you want. So if “ride or die” is the mantra you’re going with, you’ve clearly chosen die.
November 2nd, 2020 at 9:47 AM ^
Give him one more year. 2021's the end of the contract, and the AD should take a hard look at available alternatives unless we see remarkable improvement. At the same time, there's a segment of the fanbase that acts like we should win 10+ games just by breathing. After the RichRod/Hoke eras I'm never taking bowl game attendance for granted again. It's salt in the wound every year to lose to OSU, and Saturday's game was pathetic, but don't act like it couldn't be worse. It was, not that long ago. I don't follow national availability of coaches as closely as many on this board, but it doesn't seem to me like there's someone readily available right now who's a clear step-function better than Harbaugh and won't be available next year. And do you really want to give OSU the storyline of "they axed their own alum with one year left in his contract to replace him with someone who did even worse just because he couldn't beat us"?
November 2nd, 2020 at 9:47 AM ^
I don't know anymore, one on hand I can't see Michigan football winning a Big 10 championship under Harbaugh, on the other hand I worry about us falling off the map with a new coach.
I don't think there is much chance Harbaugh is fired but if his heart isn't into it anymore I could see him moving to the NFL.
November 2nd, 2020 at 9:49 AM ^
I don't know what the alternative answer is, but I have seen enough to know Riding With Harbaugh is riding in the forward middle part of a dusty pack forever.
November 2nd, 2020 at 9:51 AM ^
May as well just say we're going to do both, he's not going anywhere. He wins more than he loses, he graduates players, they make good grades, admissions has little trouble getting them in and they rarely cause trouble. He's going to lose the top notch recruits to the schools who have relaxed admissions, offer online classes(see OSU), and some that have bagmen. Can he do better with hiring assistants? Maybe, I'm sure he's not easy to work for. Just my opinion but at this point, it is what it is.
Also, it wasn't THIS bad, if you need reminded how bad it can be https://www.espn.com/college-football/matchup?gameId=333060127
November 2nd, 2020 at 3:44 PM ^
This year was much worse. The game you referenced MSU was ranked just one spot behind us in the polls and had some pretty decent talent. This year there is no comparison in the talent level of the two teams. Harbaugh and company were just BADLY out coached.
November 2nd, 2020 at 10:02 AM ^
I was a Harbaugh defender until this past week. He's just not getting it done. While I wanted him to stay through year 6 to really get a chance to stabilize our program from constant turnover...he's just not getting results.
The simple fact is, any new coach brings an injection of enthusiasm and gets a recruiting "bump". We are past that point with Harbaugh. His best "sales pitches" to recruits (his past coaching successes, NFL experience, and enthusiasm about the future of Michigan) all ring hollow at this point.
He is what he is, and we has lost all the ammo he had on the recruiting trail. It's not going to get better unless he can start punching above his weight class, and losing to this MSU team at home is not a good sign.
It's time for a new coach.
November 2nd, 2020 at 10:03 AM ^
Fish rots from the head and 6 years of this is enough! Harbaugh to the Jets, then both Lawrence and Fields pull "a Manning"! Don Brown will be a defensive assistant at Barnstable High or Cape Cod Community College.
November 2nd, 2020 at 10:19 AM ^
honestly, i'm ambivalent about the whole staff right now. I applaud Harbaugh for recognizing weakness and looking for strengths in new hires but he doesn't seem to find the right guys much of the time. everyone seems to love Don Brown and as a person I'm right there with people but honestly more often than not when the team loses it isn't because we didn't score enough points, its been the defense giving up way too many. I think a new D coordinator is needed at a minimum but I'm not sure how much I'd care at this point if the whole damn lot were fired and we brought in a new head coach.
November 2nd, 2020 at 10:29 AM ^
I am fine with Harbaugh. We need a new DC and Brown needs to be let go. The defense keeps getting worse every game. I think we need a new direction on that side of the ball.
Harbaugh did a good thing in giving Gattis the playcalling duties and I think we are alright on that side of the ball. He needs to step in on the Defensive side of the ball and get someone new.
November 2nd, 2020 at 10:31 AM ^
It doesn't matter.
It's all fucked
November 2nd, 2020 at 10:32 AM ^
Sorry, but Elvis has left the building. He has got to go. I have defended him for years but Saturday was the last straw.
And he can take Don Brown with him. After you get burned once or twice on your overmatched corners don't you think maybe it's time to switch to zone coverage? And where was the pressure on the MSU QB, Rocky whatever, for pete's sake?
November 2nd, 2020 at 10:46 AM ^
The fire seem to left Harbaugh after the 2016 season. I still think he is waiting for a certain NFL team to come calling and it may happen early next year? If not, he will probably get a contract extension at Michigan. Most new coaching hires will only perform at or below Harbaugh level. The only coach who will probably bring Michigan to that next level would be Urban Meyer but I doubt Michigan would hire Urban.
November 2nd, 2020 at 10:59 AM ^
I'm down, but can't take anymore Don Brown. He had a few good years but his trajectory is going down.
November 2nd, 2020 at 11:02 AM ^
I don't see Jim wanting to extend his existing 7-yr contract, otherwise it would have been done already. I think he has probably accomplished what he can do for the program, bringing it back from the Rich Rod ditch to being respectable again. Taking it to the next level may no longer be possible in this era under his career timeframe. He realizes that now and will exit next year to return to the NFL for a few years or maybe take some time off to be in the TV booth. I would guess he thinks it is time for a young gun to take over the Michigan program.
The issue in college football is the inequity in recruiting. 95% of the elite talent goes to 4-5 programs. That trend has occurred due to the CFP being only 4 teams. The playoff needs to be expanded so more players have a shot at the exposure and "prestige". Until that occurs and the NIL money really takes hold, I don't see anyone taking Michigan (or PSU or Texas or Florida or Oregon or Auburn etc. etc ) to the CFP. The lock on elite recruits is just too high.
I think Ward will consider an orderly transition to Josh Gattis next year. Josh can choose his new DC that pairs well with his offensive philosophy which is a fit for Michigan. The team talent will take a step up from the incoming 2021 class and Josh can take a run at things in the 2022-2025 time period. Hopefully, the Alabama-OSU-Clemson-Georgia cartel can be broken by then.
November 2nd, 2020 at 11:05 AM ^
Strangely enough I was thinking before this game randomly that it's better to lose to a non-contender for a change before OSU.
Never crossed my mind it would be the Brass Spittoons from up the road in East Landfill Michigan. At any rate let's do this...6-2 Citrus Bowl or BUST I'm ROLLIN WITH HARBAUGH
P.S. I WANT HOLYFIELD!!!
November 2nd, 2020 at 11:16 AM ^
I don’t think we should make substantial changes, such as replacing Harbaugh based on this years results. The pandemic has screwed everything up and injected all kinds of uncontrollable factors into the results. Get through the year and move on. Next year he will have a returning QB along with a bunch of other players. 2021 should be the deciding factor. Relative to his contract we have a built-in excuse to hold off on an extension. Covid has created all kinds of revenue uncertainty and we can justify holding off until 2021 when we have more clarity.
I don’t like the idea of making long term decisions while your house is on fire.
November 2nd, 2020 at 11:19 AM ^
There’s nobody else that’s going to do better in Ann Arbor. Jim Harbaugh is a good coach. Everyone wants Uof〽️to beat BLOsu and win bowl games and win championships. The fact is we haven’t recruited the talent like BLOsu, Bama and Clemson. I don’t care what anyone says when we hired DickRod and Hoke it took took the program back at least 10 years.
November 2nd, 2020 at 11:37 AM ^
If you want JH to go, wait until the season ends. I am on the fence because I want to see Michigan win on Saturday and keep winning this season. If this season goes up in flames only THEN will I want to see a HC change.
November 2nd, 2020 at 11:58 AM ^
I'm with you due to lack of alternatives.
November 2nd, 2020 at 12:35 PM ^
Enough with this “Michigan Man” crap. Let’s find an “Ohio Man” and start winning again.
November 2nd, 2020 at 12:40 PM ^
Harbaugh lost to Mel Tucker - the same guy the vast majority of the this board laughed at when MSU hired him. Take that for what it is
If Harbaugh stays - Don Brown needs to transition to a coach someplace back east. The team has talent, and has talent coming in on D....somebody needs to take them to the next level.
November 2nd, 2020 at 1:14 PM ^
Bleh, before the year I said I wouldn't fire coaches in a covid year, but I also did not think there was anyway they lose to MSU either. Honestly I am in the camp that the Harbaugh era is clearly a failure at this point based on expectations coming in, but that I'm not sure who is better if you want to maintain integrity on some level as a program. So apathy honestly.
November 2nd, 2020 at 1:15 PM ^
Harbaugh and his band of idiot coaches need to be fired immediately!!!!! This joke has gone on far to long. How can you not get your team up for any rivalry/big game? Every year MSU & OSU are coming for Michigan's blood. I have never seen that kind of hate or killer instinct with any of Harbaugh's teams. They can never just come out and dominate a team from start to finish other then Rutgers in 2016! Prove me wrong if you don't agree. I've had it with Harbaugh and that washed up DC they call Dr. Blitz!
Yeah man, those blitz packages really confused MSU's OL and he did such a great job at getting his young corners help by dropping the safety's deep or switching to a zone coverage. I'm done with this loser ass coaching staff and I hope ALL Michigan fans feel the same.
November 5th, 2020 at 2:58 PM ^
Nope Not with you at all anymore. You still gonna ride with him after they lose or should I say get waxed again by Ohio. This really is a joke now. or how bout after they lose this weekend that is most likely happening.