No More Enhanced UFRs

Submitted by WolverineBlue on October 3rd, 2012 at 4:39 PM

For the past season and a third, I have been updating a web app that provides enhanced viewing of MGoBlog's Upon Further Review (UFR) reports. I have decided that the time has come to bring the updates to a close.

Last Friday's announcement post was downvoted by Thorin (of MGoVideo fame), who also followed up with a snarky comment. Thorin is the one MGoUser I would least want to piss off, since the app's linked video feature is entirely dependent on content from MGoVideo. He probably did me a favor by forcing me to re-evaluate why I am continuing to work on this when it has become a burden that takes precious time away from more pressing priorities.

I must also admit that I have been foolish in wasting even more time recently on further development of the app. My original grand vision for the project was to build not just a viewer, but a powerful UFR creator/editor. I added many of those editing features and was intending to test them during the bye week by sponsoring a community-generated UFR of the 2012 Sugar Bowl game. That exercise is now rendered pointless.

Ultimately, the true stake through the heart is the thorny issue regarding copyright ownership of the video clips. This issue threatens to pull the rug out from under the content at a moment's notice and I realized early on that it would prevent the project from ever evolving into any form of viable long-term offering. It has also prevented the owner of the blog that inspired the project from supporting or even publicly acknowledging the existence of the viewer. So I think it is time to wrap things up and say thanks to those who have voiced support in the past and I apologize to anyone who was hoping to use the viewer for future games. I will leave the website up indefinitely, but will not be updating content for future games.



October 3rd, 2012 at 4:44 PM ^

I loved the idea, but in the end it just takes way too much time for me to watch enhanced UFRs. Most of mgoblog seems to agree, so given how much work it must be to make I totally understand shutting it down. Thanks for all the effort.

Also, Thorin is a dick and this is the internet, don't worry about pissing him off.


October 3rd, 2012 at 4:47 PM ^

If you think it's best to stop, then more power to you. I disagree strongly with Thorin about your posts being spam, though. Congrats on putting everything together the way you have the past season.33, you should be proud.

R Kelly

October 3rd, 2012 at 4:55 PM ^

The enhanced UFR viewer was a great feature, and there will be times when I really miss it.  I never viewed your posts as spam, or self-promotion .  I always thought of it more as a service you were offering to all of us for free.  I understand if you don't want to take the time to do it anymore, but it's a shame that Thorin was such a dick to you about trying to do something cool, useful, and generous for the mgocommunity.


October 3rd, 2012 at 4:57 PM ^

Admittedly I did not use them very much, but when I did, I thought they were very cool and useful. However, I always wondered what super human with a lot of time was building all of this. I understand that you want to give it up. I just hope it is because you no longer feel it is worth your time and not because one person got butthurt about it.


October 3rd, 2012 at 5:04 PM ^

It seems a bit late at this point, but I will also notion that I couldn't have a given a sh*t less, that you posted a OMG-"weekly" notification that the UFR Enhancement was available.  Maybe you'll embark upon this again in the future; most would probably welcome that feature back (and the notifications, minus one person, apparently).


October 3rd, 2012 at 5:04 PM ^

So, I suppose that Thorin doesn't post links to something he works on week in and week out? I'd take that hypocrisy with a grain of salt.


October 3rd, 2012 at 6:39 PM ^

FWIW, I don't think complaining about ad revenue holds much weight when it's not your content.  Now, you definitely do add value to the every snap videos, but most of your videos are the equivalent of copy-pastes.  I really appreciate the fact that you serve as a repository of all Michigan sports videos, but an argument centered around the revenue you make from stolen content isn't sound.


October 3rd, 2012 at 7:04 PM ^

Actually, I think his argument is sound. As I understand it, his argument is:

1) I am a hypocrite if and only if my actions were qualitatively similar to his.

2) It is not the case that my actions were qualitatively similar to his.

Therefore, I am not a hypocrite.

Looks sound to me. I guess you could argue with 2), but Thorin's point is that it's different because he isn't linking to his own website (and, on the contrary, is acting in a manner contrary to his own interests). I don't think he was being a hypocrite. I DO think he was being a dick though, and the soundness of this argument does nothing to address that at all. 



October 3rd, 2012 at 7:51 PM ^

I agree with you on the mutual exclusivity of his argument. Nonetheless, I think the reason that he complained about the enhanced UFRs is because it's using his videos and hence he is losing revenue due to someone else linking to them (is that how this stuff works?).  When you consider the fact that he is complaining about someone using his videos in their own project when "his videos" to begin with are unattributed and used without expressed written consent, those in glass houses etc etc.

[As an aside, Owl, I know I've disagreed with you on a few things on the board, but you're a really thoughtful value-added new member to the board.]


October 3rd, 2012 at 7:53 PM ^

I think the reason that he complained about the enhanced UFR's is because it's using his videos and hence he is losing revenue due to someone else linking to them (is that how this stuff works?).

No. I've explained why I was complaining below. His site barely affected every snap views.


October 3rd, 2012 at 8:05 PM ^

OK, so he shouldn't use mgovideo as a tag (which I can understand).  I thought he was just giving you credit and attributing his work (very graciously, as evidenced in this thread).  You're also upset because he was originally going to make it a part of your site (and hence you'd get/split the ad revenue from enhanced UFR), but then changed his mind.  If he solely developed enhanced UFR, then of course he can do whatever he wants with it.  To say that it isn't valued by the mgocommunity because the threads don't get many comments (but do get a fair amount of upvotes) is not your call -- if Brian doesn't want it posted, then he can put a stop to it, but you aren't a mod.


October 3rd, 2012 at 7:51 PM ^

To address your question, I was being a dick because I corresponded with the OP by email before he started his project as it was originally supposed to be part of my site. At some point he decided to make his own site without explaining to me why. Since then, every time he spams the board with links to his site, he mentions and tags mgovideo as if he has some affiliation. I thought I had made it clear to him that I didn't want mgovideo to be associated with spam. As you pointed out, I rarely post external links on the board. 

Monocle Smile

October 3rd, 2012 at 8:13 PM ^

Did you bother to outline your evidently ludicrous definition of spam to him, or were you keeping that a secret so you could accuse him of spam regardless of his actions?

If he didn't mention or credit (read: compliment) your work, you'd probably just be even more of a dick about it, so no, you don't get to be mad about that.


October 3rd, 2012 at 10:54 PM ^

I would like to take this opportunity to point out that you post 4 external links to your sites every time you post.

Other than that, I have nothing to say on this matter. Neurotics gonna neurot.


October 4th, 2012 at 2:01 AM ^

My goodness ... I went away for a few hours and this thread kind of exploded.

Anyway, Thorin's claims are not correct. My original hope was for this to be part of MGoBlog, but that was not to be. I had some offers of support, but when it was time to launch, everyone bailed out on me and said "maybe next year". Rather than toss aside all of my work, I scrambled to set up my own web site to host the app.

Only after I launched to highly favorable reviews did Thorin offer to host. By that time I had already sweated out all the setup and wanted to closely monitor activity, so I declined. I had never agreed to make it part of MGoVideo.


October 4th, 2012 at 3:53 AM ^

The guy (who is not you) who came up with the idea for enhanced UFRs started talking about it with me months before he asked you to develop it. Judging from your comments, I think it's more likely that you didn't know than that you're lying. We should have just talked to each other instead of trying to communicate though him.


October 4th, 2012 at 4:25 AM ^

You are misinformed although it is true that we never had any direct contact and this may have led to some misunderstanding. Nobody asked me to do this. It was my own idea and I started a post on the board one day asking the community what they thought of it.

It was in response to that post that I was contacted by someone apparently associated with you (I will leave him out of this except to say that he has never been anything but completely supportive). He said that he had been thinking along much the same lines and suggested that he might be able to provide a host server, although my understanding was that it was on University-owned equipment. Anyway, that fell through and I had to go it completely on my own.

I most certainly am not lying about any of this and I trust that you too may have gotten some false impressions from lack of direct communications. In any event, I have stated that my reasons for stopping may have been precipitated by your comments, but that the decision stands on its own merits. I was not intending to start an ugly flame war. Still, I don't want to leave any false statements unchallenged.

P.S. I would suggest that if you feel anything more needs to be discussed, we take it offline.


October 4th, 2012 at 5:08 AM ^

It's definitely not impossible that two people had the same idea at the same time, but I don't think that's the issue. If you're stopping enhanced UFRs just because of me, don't. I would just prefer for you not to post anything that suggests that it's somehow part of my site when you chose for it not to be. The copyright issue is a weak excuse. Are you saying you weren't aware of any copyright issue a) when you had the idea, b) while developing it c) when it was rejected by Brian due to copyright concerns or d) when videos were deleted due to copyright infringement?

P.S. I would suggest that if you feel anything more needs to be discussed, we take it offline.

Lol, it's a bit late for that, don't you think?


October 4th, 2012 at 6:25 PM ^

WTF are you talking about you dont spam the board with links to your site? Everytime you post you have 4 links posted that all go to your lame ass sites and videos. I wouldn't even waste my time looking at the "stolen" videos your lame ass uploads.


October 3rd, 2012 at 6:53 PM ^

But there's still more than the whole two posts you got there.

You do something useful, but I'd really reign in the being a dick about it, or post your contract with the NCAA, Big Ten, and the University of Michigan. Because you keep this up on how you're losing profit on content you're STEALING, and someone is liable to report you to the University and have you shut down.


October 4th, 2012 at 2:11 PM ^

Where you have been pissing over a LOT of posts lately, for no discernable reason, which seems to be a radical change (I don't know if it's been 6 months as he says...but it's been noticable), coupled with your rather nonchalant attitude and arrogance in their thread towards stealing other people property and then complaining something is cutting into your profits when you resell it. Most people around here are pretty open to some fair usage, and don't think it's that big a deal for some minor web usage of materials from a major corporation/insitution.  And if you're doing it for free, more power to you.  But once you start making a profit off of it, it's a different story. And even then, the attitude to take is "yeah, I'm doing something wrong, but what I get back doesn't really equal the work I put into it, and if they told me to stop, I would." Not "Ha Ha, they can't catch me!!"  The latter, and no one cares, and probably backs you against the big, bad corporations. The latter just makes you look like a crook.


October 3rd, 2012 at 6:58 PM ^

Yeah, from the sound and looks of stuff, it might be time to report Thorin to the University. Seriously, you're mad about losing money over straight stolen content? I could easily do what you do every week Thorin, it's very simple. Building the enhanced UFR actually takes a little skill.


October 3rd, 2012 at 7:58 PM ^

I'm obviously not mad or wouldn't keep posting embeds. I was just pointing out the difference between using the board as my personal intensive care unit to keep my failed site alive and literally paying to share videos with you guys.

As for reporting me, the AD and media department are already well aware of mgovideo. They don't like me but they tolerate me because I do so much of a better job of distributing their content than they do.



October 4th, 2012 at 12:59 AM ^

Not that I really care that much, but you do realize he provides a very simple "service" right? I could really care less if he's upset about my comment or not. This is a message board, created for people to put their two cents in. Not sure why you singled me out, but it's really not a huge deal to me.

The point here being, he was a jerk to another member, now that service won't be provided. Service that actually took hard work and know how to do. I'm not saying I don't appreciate what Thorin does, because I do appreciate it. But it's neither hard to do nor is it hard to figure out how to do. Where as the OP's actually took some work and know how. So basically he ruined a good thing for MGoBlog whether the OP wants to admit it or not, it seems pretty coincidental that the OP decided to just give up after Thorin's comment.

Whatever, I don't have an interest in this argument. It's just pretty strange that people who both want to do some good for MGoBlog can't get along. I mean we're all here for the same general reason, and both of them are trying to make the MGoBlog community better, but they can't work together, which is a bummer. I'd like to see both continue, and people get along.


October 4th, 2012 at 3:40 AM ^

I'm not saying I don't appreciate what Thorin does, because I do appreciate it. But it's neither hard to do nor is it hard to figure out how to do.

While I agree that it's not technically hard for me to upload a video, it is hard when you have a full-time job, a wife and a 3 year old to justify spending as much time as I do uploading as many videos as I do.


October 3rd, 2012 at 8:12 PM ^

Only if you assume that everyone who watches your videos would visit your site if you stopped posting links. Really, most people wouldn't even take the time to watch most of those videos if you didn't post them here. So, you are gaining revenue, albeit at a lower rate per view, by posting your links here. I don't think that's why you do it, though. I think you do it because you are trying to be a nice guy and let everyone know when the videos are available. WolverineBlue was just doing the same thing. He takes someone else's content, packages it up in a convenient format, then let's everyone know when it's ready.


October 3rd, 2012 at 11:56 PM ^

I have a real job and get about $0.10/hour for mgovideo stuff. Every snap alone takes me about 6 hours a week to cut. I've had ads on my videos from 3 years and this is the first time I've ever seen anyone complain.


October 3rd, 2012 at 5:08 PM ^

I think folks who used it though it was cool.  I certainly did.  Without the weekly post I would never have known it was there, its my preferred method of going through the UFR.  I don't go to many other sites on Michigan football but this one and tremendous unless its linked here. 

I wish you would reconsider, but thank you for your work.