East German Judge

November 9th, 2017 at 8:07 AM ^

What about other top tier schools that have been talked about forever - duke, north carolina, kentucky, etc.  I really don't believe that they are as clean and pure as the driven snow, maybe just better at concealing it.

crg

November 9th, 2017 at 8:27 AM ^

Wrong attitude.  If people keep shugging their shoulders, say "Oh Well," and just accept it, then nothing will change.  The point is that this type of behaviour is not only cheating, but is also illegal in many cases (even if just from an undeclared income stance).  Yes, it may not be as important as dealing with violent crime, but it sends a very poort message to young student-athletes and society at large: cheating and bribery is ok as long as no one gets hurt.  And, if it is ok for college sports, what about other environments and workplaces (other student competitions, government, finance, etc.)?  Sports are supposed to help improve the character of the young men & women involved - this type of action flies in the face.

ijohnb

November 9th, 2017 at 9:36 AM ^

have always found that saying kind of weird.  Like, why is the horse dead, and what kind of sicko would be "beating it?"  Just because it is there and...... dead?  Who does that?  Why is that a saying?

The Maizer

November 9th, 2017 at 4:30 PM ^

How does that apply here? The horse is not dead and it's largely because of poor attempts to beat it to death. What you're trying to say is "don't beat the living horse, because the easiest way to kill it is with a nuke, but no one will ever nuke it;" but that doesn't have the same ring to it, I guess.

ijohnb

November 9th, 2017 at 9:29 AM ^

don't really know what to think about the prevelance of pay for play and that kind of thing.  We all joke around about Clemson and Alabama and bag men, but do we really know if they, in particular, are engaging in these things and that those in positions of authority are sanctioning it?  Could it be that Alabama is constantly landing the best recruits because they are always good and Saban is an NFL production machine?  To believe "just cuz" that certain programs are cesspools of elicit activity without any supporting evidence is kind of unfair to those programs and players.

I know that we have a lot of evidence that NCAA compliance and enforcement is a joke, but until I see evidence of what illegal tactics are being engaged in by speciific offenders, it would be hypocritical or presumptive of me to label them as that but somehow believe Michigan to be above that fray.  Michigan is a great school with great facilties but it is also in region with relatively terrible weather and sluggish economy, and is a team that has not seriously contended for a national title in twenty years yet we constantly land top 10 classes.  We also have extremely wealthy alumni and boosters all over the country.  Could others not look at us with a sideways glance in this regard too?

All we can really conclude is that those caught cheating were cheating, but I don't think we can widely speculate about the practices at other football and basketball programs unless and until they are caught.

ijohnb

November 9th, 2017 at 10:17 AM ^

is because the tooth-fairly is very real.  I stayed up all night after losing the last of my baby teeth.  I caught her sneaking in with a dollar and called her out.  She was cool.  We dined on PB&J and Capri Suns.  She was kind of hot in a see-through floaty kind of way.  But I was only nine so, ya know, no moves to be made.

Meeeeshigan

November 9th, 2017 at 10:12 AM ^

How much circumstantial evidence do you need to start thinking this is actually going on?

Here's an article for you to check out: www.sbnation.com/college-football/2014/4/10/5594348/college-football-bag-man-interview

Not sure if you've been paying attention to recent and not-so-recent NCAA investigations (Louisville hookers for recruits, Ole Miss paying players, OSU tattoos for memorabilia, Wisconsin Shoe-gate, the list goes on and on), but it seems this type of thing is pretty prevalent. Those are just the examples of the benefits given that were caught by someone's mistake/news investigation/illegal activity. Remember hearing that story about Denard and others from his recruiting class laughing about comparing what they were offered by other schools (cash, cars, etc.)? How about those twitter pics of all the Alabama players with sweet new pimped-out cars?

Is there absolute proof available with names, dates, amounts, etc.? Perhaps not. These bag men seem to be pretty good at hiding their activities (at least from a powerless, subpoena-less, warrant-less NCAA). Is there sufficient evidence around to suggest that these activites are going on? I would say so.

Am I naive enough to think that none of this goes on at Michigan? I am not, but I also think that the scope and scale of such efforts at U-M is far less developed and omnipresent as it is at SEC schools (and some others). U-M recruits well primarily because of what they offer: top-notch education, first-rate facilities, great coaching staff, excellent chance to maximize your shot at making the NFL, the chance to play at the largest stadium in college football, etc.

ijohnb

November 9th, 2017 at 10:24 AM ^

is just how I operate that I am not going to assume anything about anybody that I haven't seen or experienced, or until they are adjudged against some kind of legal or ethical standard to which they answer to.  The Denard stuff, the "he said this" and "they said that," twitter pictures, so and so blogged this.  That is not an adequate standard of proof.  I think Clemson is probably dirty.  I think Kentucky basketball is probably dirty.  But I don't know these things, and until I do, I don't operate under the assumption that they are.

Blue In NC

November 9th, 2017 at 11:42 AM ^

Good to know that if you are lost and approached by a group of people with knives in a dark alley that you will probably just conclude they are give you directions or buy you a cup of coffee.  I mean we cannot prove they have bad intentions.

While you may operate this way, you have to understand that most people do not and the world would be a much different place if people turned away from what seems obvious to most.

On the other hand, I believe you have a great career opportunity awaiting you at the NCAA division of enforcement.

Mack Tandonio

November 9th, 2017 at 12:39 PM ^

I don't think you understand due process and burden of proof as legal concepts, let alone how they may or may not apply here. And before you go thumping your chest about American jurisprudence, look up dred scott or korematsu. Justice is the only ideal and clearly that is lacking in this case.

Blue In NC

November 9th, 2017 at 5:03 PM ^

OK, fair point about the analogy but we are not talking about conviction in a court of law, we are talking about whether you think someone is cheating or not.  I would hope those are different standards.  I do not run my everyday life and make judgments based solely on what could support a conviction in court.

"I don't think we can widely speculate about the practices at other football and basketball programs unless and until they are caught."

Pretty sure we can see strong evidence of cheating and act accordingly.  Getting a conviction, that's another story.

Yeoman

November 9th, 2017 at 12:26 PM ^

When there's a scandal at a high-profile agency and the fired agent then tries to set up as an independent, those top tier schools don't do business with him.

It wasn't so much a question of concealment, just not being desperate enough to work with what turned out to be the FBI's primary lead.

ChiBlueBoy

November 9th, 2017 at 9:10 AM ^

Bland needed a criminal defense attorney, and my guess is his best strategy is to get one with experience and success in RICO, conspiracy, fraud, etc. Calling him a "mob attorney" doesn't change that it's probably a smart hire, as his prior clients would not hire bad attorneys.

I wouldn't judge a client by his or her counsel. And I only sometimes judge a lawyer by his/her clients.

L'Carpetron Do…

November 9th, 2017 at 9:22 AM ^

I work for a nonprofit good government group in DC whose mission is to hold poiticians accountable and make sure federal agencies are upholding the law.  One of my day dreams is to  start a similar group that deals with another corrupt institution -  the NCAA. We'll file complaints, appeal bogus rulings, advocate on behalf of the players and more importantly blow the whistle on schemes like this. Get at me with funding.

L'Carpetron Do…

November 9th, 2017 at 11:35 AM ^

I would love to see how many whistleblowers/inside sources would come forward with tales of improper behavior going on in certain programs. You have to think teams in a certain conference would eat themselves alive reporting wrongdoing at their rivals. 

yoyo

November 9th, 2017 at 9:43 AM ^

I love how all these assistant coaches are going down while the head coaches are claiming innocence. As if they didn't make every decision for their team. What a joke. There won't be any real justice in the case besides what happened to Pitino. None of these programs want to be clean.

trueblueintexas

November 9th, 2017 at 10:04 AM ^

Keep in mind the pool for this probe currently is Adidas schools, but here is the breakdown of schools by conference mentioned at the end of that article:

Pac12: 2

SEC: 3

ACC: 2

Big12: 1

Again, caveat of Adidas schools only and small sample size, but all of the schools mentioned are from areas associated with the south, southeast. and west. None so far from the north, midwest, northeast, or northwest.

 

VAWolverine

November 9th, 2017 at 11:12 AM ^

the celebration be scheduled in Crisler to raise the 2013 NCAA Men's Basketball National Championship banner? We've had to take banners down for shenanigans. It's time to put that banner up!