Another year on the bubble
This is getting exhausting. You'd think for $3.37 million a year Michigan would get more of a return on its investment. What's the point of all this? Yes the refs screwed us tonight, but where is the rebounding, the boxing out, the defense, the toughness? It's the same problems over and over every single year under Beilein. There's no 1st round NBA talent on this team so I kind of expected this, but that's the problem. The B1G being terrible this year makes this season all the more frustrating.
February 20th, 2017 at 11:30 AM ^
Both Crean and Matta are on their way out the door... Just like JB should be.
Izzo just spent two decades going to the tournament, don't even bring him up, it's embarrassng.
February 20th, 2017 at 2:01 PM ^
...thad matta is on his way out of columbus, dipshit.
February 20th, 2017 at 12:54 AM ^
But saying we have a "talented freshmen class coming" is almost as ridiculous as all of Maizen's comments in this thread. We are ranked the #37 class in the country currently(according to the 247 composite) and have no prospects that seem to be likely to add to our haul. Here is a list of some Basketball Powerhouses that have higher ranked classes than we do:
Alabama: #5- This is the one that pisses me off the most because it has so many similarities with Michigan; football school, very little basketball history(even less than UM), almost unlimited resources to field a good team
Oregon: #12
WESTERN KENTUCKY: #13
Arizona State: #15
Virginia Tech: #16
WISCONSIN: #18
Butler: #20
Colorado: #24
Mississippi State: #26
I can keep going on about teams that Michigan easily could and probably should be out-recruiting, but aren't. I am maybe one of the biggest Belein supporters on this blog, but even I can see that this incoming class is not more talented than any other middle of the road P5 school. Belein does have a track record of his recruits outplaying their rankings, but recently that has almost gone in the opposite direction. I won't bring up X because he may well be an All-B1G type player later on, but Chatman was the #27 recruit coming out, Irvin was #28, Walton #44( I know he is playing like it now, but a top-60 recruit is supposed to play like a potential draft pick multiple years or leave early). I still believe Belein deserves one more year after this regardless of the outcome due to his history of fielding a top 20 team without highly rated recruits. I have much more to say on this topic, and will probably write a Diary about it in the upcoming days. Long story short, Belein is not recruiting at the level that he should be considering the resources and recent success at Michigan, however, that is not a death sentence to the program as Belein almost(read should have) won a National Championship with almost entirely recruits outside of the top 50. GRIII and Mcgary were the only top 50 recruits, and JB got in on GRIII when he was a random 3 star who rose into 5 star territory.
February 19th, 2017 at 10:02 PM ^
and they're on the bubble. And I'm pretty sure Izzo is the highest paid coach in the B1G.
Beilein didn't make a 90% FT shooter go 1 for 4, but his defense actually held Minnesota for 44% from the field, excellent for this defense. Some people just can't be happy. I can't remember the last time we beat Sparty, Indiana and Wisconsin consecutively. But apparently that means shit now.
February 19th, 2017 at 10:14 PM ^
Exactly, we're not North carolina or UCLA. We are a middle tier basketball program, meaning that we should be competative and make the tournament, but not be in the top 25 every year. Beilein has done good things for us, and I still see the potential for us to be good. We still have to grow up and mature as a team, and guys like irvin haven't done that. When Irvin and Donnal leave that can help clean out that weak, regressive mindset. I hate saying that about them because they're good kids and have ptoential but they haven't lived up to it and that's the way it is.
February 19th, 2017 at 10:15 PM ^
Oh god this argument again. Not only is it wrong it's pathetic.
February 19th, 2017 at 10:16 PM ^
I agree with you but we are top 15 in final four appearances and top 10 if you include the Fab 5 years so that's a pretty good basketball program.
February 19th, 2017 at 10:20 PM ^
Only Kentucky, Kansas, Duke, UNC, and UCLA have played in more national title games than Michigan.
February 19th, 2017 at 10:50 PM ^
Longest NCAA Tournament appearance streak:
- Kentucky: 17
- Duke: 21 (active)
- Kansas: 27 (active)
- North Carolina: 27
- UCLA: 15
- Michigan: 6
Learn the history.
We've had great teams in decades, but we've also had mediocre or bad stretches. No sustained success for a long period of time.
If you wanna find out why, read this book. It's quite sad.
February 19th, 2017 at 11:06 PM ^
Or you know you can read this:
February 20th, 2017 at 12:16 AM ^
We aren't even in the top-20 in all-time wins if you count the vacated games. Pick up the book, you may actually learn something.
February 19th, 2017 at 10:52 PM ^
That's exactly right Maizen. Factor in academics and how good most of the sports are at Michigan, why cant the basketball program strive for the same success? It's because of your flawed thinking and the mentality that Beilein and crew have there. Michigan is better overall and an all around respected institution than Kentucky, Kansas, Duke, UCLA and UNC. You guys say you are the leaders and best. Why cant the basketball team be it and strive for it along with your other sports programs? I just want the greatest university to win like they did when I was little.
February 20th, 2017 at 2:07 PM ^
michigan has also appeared in a national title game more recently than both kansas and ucla.
February 19th, 2017 at 10:22 PM ^
It is, but out of a 10 year run, we shouldn't epect top 25 the majority of the time. We should expect NCAA tournmanent every year (barring one bad, blow up year like 2015). In Beilein's tenure from 2009 to now is how a second tier plays: really good for 4 years, down for about 4, then good another 4, then down. The cycle continues, but i'd agree we should play better. I guess I see us as the Wisconsin football of basketball: always in the hunt for the conference title, never really a threat to win it all but will have a surprise year or two once in a while.
February 19th, 2017 at 10:22 PM ^
we shouldn't epect top 25 the majority of the time.
Are you fucking kidding me right now?
February 19th, 2017 at 10:25 PM ^
What I mean is on the cusp of the top 25, not solidfied in it every year. Kinda like Cincinnati recently: plays well, never in top 25 every all the time but hovers around it every year and makes the tournament.
February 19th, 2017 at 10:31 PM ^
Dude, Michigan just dropped 100 million dollars into their basketball facilities and pay Beilein more than all but 5 coaches in the country. I don't know know how old you are but UM basketball used to be a powerhouse and reguarly challenged for big ten titles and final 4's. I know exactly what you mean and you're dead fucking wrong. Maybe you're fine with having absolutely ridiculously low expectations but as an alum I'm not. Top 25 should be the bare minimum expectation at a place like Michigan. Get real.
February 19th, 2017 at 10:37 PM ^
I've been a fan since the turn of the century, so I haven't seen the positive side of Michigan basketball, and that may be the problem. I know we were good in the 1970s- 90s, and we had Cazzie in the 60s, but we have one title and bad scandals in the late 90s and early 2000s. From the outside looking in, Michigan has a lot of untapped potential to be a really good program, but lets not expect to be on North Carolina, Kentucky, or Kansas' level.
February 20th, 2017 at 9:52 AM ^
1. We weren't just good during those times. We were national title contender good and a pretty decent pipeline to the NBA. 2. The scandals weren't nearly as "bad" as people make them out to be in hindsight. If you were someone who actually paid attention during those years of the Fab Five, there are bigger factors that are involved with what I feel is the intentional deligitimization of those teams and guys. But it wasn't nearly what is portrayed now.
Michigan should be a title contender in many more years than they currently are and can be again. SInce you have only been a fan since the turn of the century as you put it, we can cut you some slack. But saying we shouldn't expect to be one of the best programs I don't accept. And if I was in charge of the program and I heard that kind of crap come out of the mouth of a player or coach, they would be gone. There is a reason why Harbaugh is starting to elevate the football program back to former success. It's because expectations are high and goals are made accordingly.
February 19th, 2017 at 11:23 PM ^
Uhhh comparing Wisconsin football to our basketball is not a very good comparison. Wisconsin has won the big ten in football five times in the last 20 years which is just as many as we have in the same time span. We have not had that success in basketball under Beilein. We used to under Orr, Frieder, and Fisher. Just not consistently enough. Also nobody here expects us to be on Kentucky, Duke, Kansas, or UNC level.
February 20th, 2017 at 11:43 AM ^
February 20th, 2017 at 2:11 PM ^
steve fisher never won one. beilein has two.
February 20th, 2017 at 2:56 PM ^
Steve Fisher won a national title and appeared in 3 Final Fours and an Elite 8.
But please go ahead and brag about Big ten titles.
February 21st, 2017 at 8:55 AM ^
he brought up big ten titles.
but please go ahead and argue against a point i didn't make in the first place. also, the ledge is over there. please go ahead and jump.
here's what i don't get - why are you here? do you enjoy this? pissing moaning complaining literally all day long? grow up and get over it. and please, for the love of god, DON'T GO TO THE GAMES. nobody wants to sit anywhere near a fan like you. your constant manbabying makes everyone around you miserable.
helpful hint - bitching all the time doesn't make you 'honest,' or 'realistic,' or whatever. it just makes you a dick.
February 19th, 2017 at 10:17 PM ^
February 19th, 2017 at 11:43 PM ^
February 19th, 2017 at 10:03 PM ^
lol
...my point exactly.
February 19th, 2017 at 10:04 PM ^
Earlier in the year this would be a question. Right now we're playing pretty well for the first time since the Kentucky game. If we go anything less than 2-2 I think you can revisit Beilein's future.
February 19th, 2017 at 10:05 PM ^
Letting an admitted OSU fan officiate the M/OSU game was the first straw. Eventually, something has to be the last. I'm not saying Teddy V is 100% of the reason we lost -- but he had a lot to do with it.
February 20th, 2017 at 8:30 AM ^
February 20th, 2017 at 12:22 PM ^
*To be more specific, each conference has an officials assignor or coordinator that is responsible for assigning officials to games. That coordinator and his staff grade officials and that's how they choose who does what.* You can bet your ass the TV Ted did not get a good rrating yesterday and if you look it up, historically, TV Ted rarely gets games past the first weekend of the NCAA tournament. He's a slightly above average D1 official. He's preposterous and stands out.
*I got to talk to the coordinator/assignor of the ACC officials. He basically said that their expectation is 90% overall correctness on calls and no-calls; 100% correctness in the final 4 minutes. That's the standard they use and officials that meet or come the closest to meeting that standard are tapped for the biggest/most important games.
February 20th, 2017 at 5:57 PM ^
Yup.
And I was say that if you watch the Sweet 16 on, the officiating is usually A LOT better. Like noticeably better.
You know when a call is made and then they show a slow mo replay and the official was not only correct, but IN POSITION to make the correct call.
The top guys are pretty doggone good and held to a REALLY high standard. The problem is when you have so many teams, what 350? You're going to have some shitty officials or old guys who are past their prime.
It sucks, but if you think about it...people don't really grow up wanting to be officials. They want to be the player. So they player is practicing from an early age. The official/umpire finally lets the dream go and gets a handful of years practicing before working at a significant level if he/she shows competance and promise.
February 19th, 2017 at 10:07 PM ^
Not the time for this.
February 19th, 2017 at 10:10 PM ^
February 19th, 2017 at 10:16 PM ^
We have a decent team. I think we are frustrated because normally when you have senior guards with a ton of experience, you're considered a contender. Not sure why Irvin regressed so much (he was never anything more than average, now he's horrific).
We are definitely good enough to be in the tournament, talent wise. We haven't played as well as a team with senior guards, guys like Mo, DJ, MAAR and Robinson.
I've never been on the "time to get rid of Beilein" train. We've seen what this team can do when it plays to its potential. That's what makes it harder when they play like they did against osu at Crisler so maddening.
I'm hopeful we make the dance. Walton deserves it. I think we'll be in a similar situation next year. Good team, potential tourney team, but it's 50-50.
As a die hard Michigan alum and fan watching teams coached by Johnny Orr, it's been a good and bad season. Pulling hard that they can do enough to make the tournament. Otherwise, the tournament loses any meaning for me.
GO BLUE!!
February 19th, 2017 at 10:08 PM ^
February 19th, 2017 at 10:08 PM ^
If/When Belein goes, can the next coach be a great recruiter? Please?
February 19th, 2017 at 10:17 PM ^
February 19th, 2017 at 10:35 PM ^
Can't tell if serious ?
February 19th, 2017 at 11:04 PM ^
God, I hope so.
February 19th, 2017 at 10:09 PM ^
We do have to get better big men and recruit better though. Ricky Doyle, Donnal, Teske etc. are just a few bg guys that didn't or don't do a whole lot when on the court.
February 19th, 2017 at 10:12 PM ^
This is my point. We've been saying this every year for a decade. Outside of McGary the big man recruiting has been horrid. Morgan had a nice senior year but was not very good for the 3 years before. White and unatletic seem to be Beilein's preference.
February 19th, 2017 at 10:28 PM ^
I can agree with that staement. Wilson and Wagner have some potential, but again they lack that grit and toughness.
February 19th, 2017 at 11:39 PM ^
February 20th, 2017 at 7:42 AM ^
February 19th, 2017 at 11:38 PM ^
February 19th, 2017 at 11:43 PM ^
Because anyone with two eyeballs saw that Morgan had a hell of a senior year and did a ton of things that didn't show up on the boxscore. He was finally able to catch a pick and roll pass. Only took him three years. Quit being so hostile. The point is this program used to roll out Webber and Howard and Traylor. Now we roll out guys like Donnal and Teske and Doyle. it's sad.
February 20th, 2017 at 1:38 AM ^
February 20th, 2017 at 3:00 AM ^
Neither are yours. I watched the games. Regardless, if Morgan is the 2nd best post Beilein has recruited in 10 years then he has a serious recruiting problem. Stop being so dense and see the larger point. I know it's hard but try.