A Plea For Patience: Secondary Experience - Top Five - Bottom Five
October 31st, 2010 at 1:55 PM ^
If we aren't in the running to win the Big 10 next year (or whatever division we're in) all the criticism of Rodriguez and anyone else on the staff is valid. I think he's going to deliver. You can disagree, but he deserves the shot to have one year with his own guys as upperclassmen and 20 or so returning starters.
October 31st, 2010 at 2:21 PM ^
But I think the team has improved dramatically on offense - they now consistently put 450-500 yards up on good defenses, and can score incredibly quickly. They have depth on the offensive line, in the backfield, and at WR, and it has shown (though yesterday was perhaps not the best showing). The problem is that defensively, guys who should/would have come back (Warren, Wollfolk, Turner) and new additions (Dorsey) either left early for the pros, are injured, or are off the team. I feel like half of the team is always one year off of the other - last year's defense was not great, but paired with this offense I think they go 8-4 or better. Next year, with at least some experience on the defensive side of the ball, expect to see this team compete. It is going to be a long haul, but making a move now for the sake of making a move wouldn't help anyone.
October 31st, 2010 at 12:24 PM ^
three obvious things that are fixable and never sdeem to be addressed by this staff
1. NO PRESSURE on the QB -three-man fronts will not get it done. Putting eight guys in spoace isn't slowing anyone down anyway!
2. 5th year senio LBs ands are worse than they were two years ago and the staff doesn't change until seven games in.
3. BLITZ someone, anyone sometimes. Make the QB have to rush something. This defensive scheme gives every QB all day. I could find an open receiver against our D.
October 31st, 2010 at 12:30 PM ^
not sure if you watched the game last night, but we brought 4 down lineman almost the whole game and we could barely get any pressure
October 31st, 2010 at 4:10 PM ^
October 31st, 2010 at 12:25 PM ^
The youth in the secondary isn't the only problem. Penn State ran all over us, just like Iowa and MSU. That's on the line and the linebackers. We consistently put 8 in the box and still had trouble stopping the run, which left us vulnerable to very simple pass plays. Last I checked, we have plenty of experience at DL and LB. It just isn't playing well.
At the beginning of the year, this blog had a rough consensus of about 7-5. We still have a decent chance of that happening. This is not the time to panic. However, if the defense is not at least mediocre at this time next year, it will be time to make some changes.
October 31st, 2010 at 12:54 PM ^
I agree with this. I want to see a top 50ish defense at minimum next year. If that doesn't happen, there's a good chance I am on the heads have got to roll side of the fence. Of course, if we score 60 points a game I think I'll stick with the current regime, regardless. :-)
We have a middle-of-the-pack run defense right now, rankings-wise. Some of that is due to the fact that teams can pass at will against us BUT we are middle-of-the-pack in yards per play against the run as well.
October 31st, 2010 at 12:54 PM ^
With Mike Martin out we have Banks(8th game), Sagesse(0 games), and Demens (2nd game) all first year starters, RVB and Roh (better suited to DE) second year starters, and Mouton who should have no excuses. That amounts to plenty of experience? Throw in the secondary- Gordon (WR last year), Rogers (1st year and not really a CB), Floyd (1st full year), everyone else would be first year starters and either true freshman or RS freshman.
That's downright scary. Now if DW had stayed and Troy didn't go down before the season maybe they would be more willing to attack. At this point I would rather send the house and risk not getting there and give up big plays. At least we can get the offense back on the field quicker.
October 31st, 2010 at 2:44 PM ^
Pre-season, we didn't know what to make of UConn & ND. Did the consensus say 2-6 B10 w/ wins over Indiana and (maybe) Purdue?
October 31st, 2010 at 12:26 PM ^
...however, isn't the head coach responsible for not having an experienced secondary 3 years into his own program? And if not, they should all be 4- and 5-star recruits at a place like Michigan.
October 31st, 2010 at 12:30 PM ^
Like the four and five star recruits at USC?
;-)
October 31st, 2010 at 1:54 PM ^
has played way better competition at this point. They haven't had the luxury of playing a 3rd string walk on.
October 31st, 2010 at 2:39 PM ^
No one does more with less...in the job interviews
October 31st, 2010 at 3:17 PM ^
And his dad is the DC. I hear he's pretty good.
October 31st, 2010 at 7:00 PM ^
...that if a freshman (RS or true) is playing then he is a stud (like Law, Woodson, Marlin Jackson) that outplays veteran players. And if you are starting from scratch, like we are, you should have very talented, young players on the field. And even if they get beat from time to time, they make plays from time to time, too. None of this is happening, and ultimately that lies on the doorstep of the head coach's responsibility.
At least one of these needs to be let go by Coach Rod:
- Recruiting coordinator
- DB Coach
- Special Team coordinator
- Defensive coordinator
Coach Rod is an offensive genius and we are seeing the results of that in year three. At a place like Michigan, we should expect similar results on the defensive side, as well as on special teams.
Yes, Attrition from the Transition (TM) has hurt, but Coach Rod and his staff watched practice during the Cap One Bowl practices, and they should have been aware of this possibility. I personally believe in giving a guy at least four years, but the indicators are trending the wrong way. I hope it changes, and we really, really need to beat Illinois this Saturday.
October 31st, 2010 at 12:38 PM ^
Star ratings are overrated. Mike Hart - 3 star recruit. Kevin Grady - 5 star recruit. Who was the better RB?
Having said that, I agree that there appears to be a notable lack of athletic talent in the secondary on top of a lack of experience. But I dislike the star-rating argument. Iowa is doing rather well with 2 and 3 star players.
October 31st, 2010 at 12:42 PM ^
The whole "Mike Hart was a three-star, so star ratings mean nothing" meme is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
No, there is no guarantee that a given five-star recruit will be better than a given three-star recruit.
But yes, on average, a recruiting class laden with four and five-stars will perform better than one filled with three-stars. That is the point, which anyone being honest would readily acknowledge.
October 31st, 2010 at 2:02 PM ^
To be fair, USC and ND both have highly-rated recruits and have struggled this year defensively and offensively. I agree that higher-rated kids tend to play better, but over a short stretch that does not necessarily play out.
October 31st, 2010 at 12:33 PM ^
IIRC, said more than once that game experience was one of the biggest plusses a player could have in deciding if a guy was going to start or not.
And we're seeing why he said that, every time our defense goes on the field.
October 31st, 2010 at 1:04 PM ^
Look at Illinois. First year in a new system and their two deep in the secondary does not exhibit that much more experience (or talent) than ours. Why has Vic Koennning come in and turned that unit around while ours has struggled? I think this is a pretty good example of how very good coaching can make a difference, and that good coaches do not need years and tons of 4 and 5 star experience and talent to put together a decent defense.
October 31st, 2010 at 1:52 PM ^
Tavon Wilson - junior
Trulon Henry - junior
Justin Green - sophomore
Travon Bellamy - RS senior
The whole point of this diary is player experience in the secondary. They have it.
We can start throwing in other parameters such as how long the DC has been there, etc. but there are 120 teams and it would become extremely cumbersome.
This isn't perfect, by any means. Obviously, the team's success isn't going to go 1-120 based solely on player experience. There will always be exceptions but there is a clear trend.
October 31st, 2010 at 1:52 PM ^
They also have Martez Wilson (now a senior) and a bunch of experienced blue-chip d-linemen. Praising their DC is the same logic that led to Ron English's infalted reputation after one year at U-M.
October 31st, 2010 at 2:02 PM ^
In light of your stance on how our inexperience is dooming the D, do you think there is anything the coaches can do to improve defensive performance? Is there anything the coaches could be doing better?
What would you do if you were coach right now?
October 31st, 2010 at 2:11 PM ^
I don't see anyone on the sidelines saying, "Fuck it, we're just going to give up yards." I'm sure in any endeavor there are people who could be doing things better. I just know that with this unit the cards are permanently stacked against you. The coaches have mixed up the lineup, the alignment of the defense, they've blitzed, they've dropped 8 into coverage. No matter what you do players have to make plays, and our guys aren't capable of doing that on a consistent basis yet, through no fault of their own.
If the coaches continue to recruit quality defensive players (and I think we have more than enough talent in the freshman/sophomore classes to field a quality unit down the line) then this will get remedied very quickly. We will be better next year (i.e. good enough to win lots of games with our improved offense) with essentially everyone on the two-deep coming back and I think will have a very high quality unit in 2012. Those are my expectations (and I guess you could say demands) with respect to the coaching staff. Expecting more in the immediate future though suggests an irreparable disconnect with reality.
October 31st, 2010 at 4:39 PM ^
but you didn't say what you would do if you were the coach.....is there anything that could stem the tide, even marginally, and provide the fan base some hope? If the answer is no, then the answer is no. But my god, please let there be SOMETHING we can do that would at least bring our yardage totals down 100 or so yards a game.
October 31st, 2010 at 4:43 PM ^
Sorry. We may catch a break if the other team can't execute (hope for dropped passes and Pryor arm punts) but otherwise we are SOL until next fall.
October 31st, 2010 at 4:56 PM ^
you broke my frickin heart.
October 31st, 2010 at 2:36 PM ^
I'm sorry, but you just can't make this argument to justify what we saw last night. That was a truly awful offense that we faced. PSU was averaging 20 ppg with Bolden at QB. They started a guy that we all thought was Sheridan-esque. He had less experience than most of our defensive players (only one week working with the first string in practice). And he was given a very limited playbook to work with. Even against an incredibly weak opponent, our defense - in week 9, with two weeks to prepare - completely and utterly failed.
I wanted to be patient and believe in these guys, but where's the progress? The freshmen are almost sophomores, the sophomores are almost juniors, and so on. By now, if these guys were getting competent coaching, the lightbulb should have clicked on. I mean really, we can't stop a rollout pass to the flat from a walk-on QB when we know it's coming?
October 31st, 2010 at 2:43 PM ^
To say "they knew it was coming" ignores all the other ways in which this defense was burned. Runs right up the middle and deep passes to wide open receivers. If you have to sell out to stop the run and can't cover anybody in the secondary, it makes it pretty easy to beat a team with the occasional screen or roll out pass. They couldn't stop anything. That tells me the problem was the players not the plan.
And the "they aren't freshmen anymore" argument is just silly. Look at how poorly the 2005 defense played at the end of the year, and that was with a boatload of NFL bound juniors in the lineup (Woodley, Hall, Burgess, Harris). They never improved and got torched by OSU and Nebraska at the end of the year. One offseason later they were the best defense in the last decade at U-M. Expecting players to make major strides in the middle of a season lack any historical basis.
October 31st, 2010 at 2:58 PM ^
How can you plea for patience when the defense gets worst every game, let alone every season? I have no more patience for this defensive staff.
October 31st, 2010 at 6:07 PM ^
get in the way of a good old-fashioned red-blooded Amurrican pissed-offness, huh?
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