At What Point Is Enough, Enough?
First, I am a Rich Rodriguez fan and I really want him to succeed here, at Michigan. But when is it time to pull the plug? Mark Dantonio has as many conference wins in Ann Arbor as RichRod has....and Ron Zook could match that soon.
I think Rich Rod is a great coach and he seems like a good guy. I know he never has gotten a fair shake here from a lot of people. But it is starting to look like he isn't a good fit for Michigan. I don't buy the idea that his offense won't work in the Big Ten, so I am not saying that. I'm sure that I will get neg'd for asking the question, but that is all I am doing.
For the record, I would love to see him succeed here and make a lot of people eat crow. But I am starting to have doubts about the possibility of that happening.
October 16th, 2010 at 10:54 PM ^
This is the same sort of logic that manifests itself in posts like "I understand the defense is young and inexperienced, but why are they making all these fundamental errors like missed tackles/assignments and committing penalties?" This habit people have of claiming to realize X is the state of the world and then looking for ridiculous explanations for X is one of the more frustrating aspects of frequenting this board (especially after a loss).
/Too nice a guy to call people retards
October 16th, 2010 at 11:09 PM ^
These individuals type UNACCEPTABLE in ALL CAPS a lot and sit near me, regrettably.
October 16th, 2010 at 11:18 PM ^
If I hadn't moved out of the area after graduation, I would be in jail right now for like 8 murders committed against dumbass fans in the middle of home games. A big chunk of our fanbase deserves enormous kudos for not clubbing the other chunk over the head with a crowbar.
October 16th, 2010 at 11:10 PM ^
Fine, I'll do it. @#$%ing retards!
October 16th, 2010 at 11:32 PM ^
Awesome. Somehow you took my angry thoughts about these posters and put it into rational words. Bravo!
October 16th, 2010 at 11:32 PM ^
Did you predict we'd start 5-0 and then lose 5 of the last 7 to get to 7-5? That's the point. We beat some cupcakes and can't deliver against anybody that's any good. I'm not advocating anything crazy about Rich Rod or this team, but that's why people are mad. If I told you'd we'd start 5-0 you would have ratcheted up your expectations signficantly.
October 16th, 2010 at 11:48 PM ^
We played Notre Dame (with a new coach and QB) and four relatively crappy teams to start the year. Anyone predicting 7-8 wins had at least 4-5 of them coming from the first five games. I don't think anybody thought we would lose to UConn but kick Iowa's ass.
October 16th, 2010 at 11:38 PM ^
So it's better to lose to a cupcake in order to beat a better team later? Can you imagine the meltdown here if we'd lost one of the early games and were 4-3 at this point? You're not allowed to predict 7-5 and then be furious when it looks like we're on that trajectory. (According to my super-serious rules of the game.)
October 16th, 2010 at 10:51 PM ^
I knew I'd get neg'd....can't ask a simple question on this site. Can't get a straight answer, either.
October 17th, 2010 at 1:09 AM ^
I want to put on funny glasses and pay twice as much for this particular BlockM post.
October 16th, 2010 at 10:56 PM ^
You realize you haven't been neg'd yet for this thread right?
Edit: I stand corrected.
October 16th, 2010 at 10:58 PM ^
So your post basically says "I really like RR, and here is why, but when should he be fired" and you are surprised when people who have been reading these types of posts for, I don't know, 3 years suddenly don't want to risk further carpal tunnel syndrome by responding? If you want to know how everyone feels about RR and him being fired, look through the archives. Trust me, most peoples' opinions haven't changed. Some want to give him the rest of the year, others say more, others say less, and some wanted him fired yesterday. You want a concensus - go find a jury room somewhere.
October 16th, 2010 at 11:57 PM ^
My post asked a simple question and most of the responses are excuses. Yes, Michigan outgained Iowa today. But when you look deeper, Michigan had the ball more and Iowa had very good field position on most of their drives. And oh yeah, the last time I checked, you didn't win games by having more yards than your opponent. I see that almost everyone has completely ignored the fact that Rich Rod has 2 home conference wins in 2+ years.....
I also find it quite funny that at 13-18 people are not more up in arms. Lloyd Carr was getting lambasted by a lot of fans for going 8-4.....
October 17th, 2010 at 12:09 AM ^
Your question is, "When is enough enough?"
The answer is that it sure as hell isn't now. Let's wait until we've played the entire season and see what his home conference record is.
Also, your last paragraph is awful. People have never been more "up in arms" than they have been the last couple years, and comparing this to Lloyd Carr's situation is like comparing apples and Volkswagen Beetles.
October 17th, 2010 at 8:42 AM ^
Hate to say it, but unless you have been completely ignoring college football for the past 2 years, you would know that RR has been under fire and the fans "up in arms" for years with this squad. But complaining about it and demanding a new coach won't help during the season, and as fans most would rather be positive now than constantly fret about the future.
October 16th, 2010 at 10:53 PM ^
That's easy. When his two deep on both offense and defense consists primarily of upperclassmen (like Iowa) and he continues to lose games. Many of the athletes that are being carved up in this blog are still learning the difference between the Modern Language Building and Angell Hall. Give them a chance to learn the game at the collegiate level as well as the system and then you can judge him.
October 16th, 2010 at 10:53 PM ^
what do you see from this defense or from who we have on the bench/coming in that makes you think it will be any better in the next year or two?
and we lose one of our best defensive players next year in Mouton.
October 16th, 2010 at 10:53 PM ^
At what point is enough enough? I thought from this title you were referring to posts asking when is RR going to get fired.
Enough is enough of these posts.
.
October 16th, 2010 at 10:54 PM ^
Right now it's enough... oh wait you weren't talking about these posts.
Seriously its a young team, we knew our defense wasn't going to be any great shakes coming into the season, and they've been better than the stats say. They've played really well all things considered. OMG the true freshmen who have only been here for three months aren't playing like NFL superstars! PANIC! Freaking A people get a grip!
But what is most concerning to me about all these stupid freaking posts is the fact that you guys seem to think we gained like three yards on offense today! We outgained what will likely be the Big Ten Champs! We put up over 500 yards on a team known for having one of the best defenses around.
October 17th, 2010 at 5:57 PM ^
...the only true freshman that's gotten any significant playing time that I can think of off the top of my head are Cullen Christian and Avery. The secondary is otherwise made up of 2 redshirt freshman (which basically translates to sophmore), 2 sophmores, and James Rogers. THe Linebackers are all upper classmen except Craig Roh, the line is made up of 2 juniors and a senior.
The offense is even more "sophmore and up" dominated.
October 16th, 2010 at 10:57 PM ^
October 16th, 2010 at 11:00 PM ^
If we win 3 more games total, I will be happy. Just go 8-5. So if we win 7 games, we should get a good matchup in a bowl. 7-6 would not be a good year though.
October 16th, 2010 at 11:05 PM ^
No earlier than December. Hopefully longer.
October 16th, 2010 at 11:05 PM ^
Enough is enough for me with the injuries. Why is it that we ALWAYS seem to have significant injuries. I thought that with RR coming in and the focus he seemed to place on S&C that we would greatly improve in this, but sadly that has not happened. Is it cause we now recruit the smaller/quicker players who can not hold up physically or is it still something fundamentally with our S&C program? It just seems to me that you don't see this many injury problems at other top notch programs around the country.
October 16th, 2010 at 11:06 PM ^
yes we put up alot of yards against one of the nation's top defenses. We scored two rushing TDs against a team that had given up none all year. That aside, we don't have a consistent running game, most of our backs go down on first contact, Hopkins in the exception, but he doesn't get enough carries.
The offense to this point in the season, is unable to score enough to keep up with what the defense is allowing. I know the secondary is on backups and freshmen, but this three-man rush is bullshit. PUT SOME GODDAMN PRESSURE ON THE QB. Our defense has gotten one turnover in three games and the offense has commited seven.
The team is fighting hard and they are not sliding, but they are beginning to slip. Illinois, Purdue and Wisco don't look exactly like pushovers right now. This week off comes at a perfect time for Michigan to get healthy and get their act together.
October 16th, 2010 at 11:18 PM ^
in with Illinois and Wisky?
You are aware that their most impressive win to date came against a team that lost to South Dakota right?
October 16th, 2010 at 11:32 PM ^
THE USD FIGHTIN' COYOTES.
/SouthDakotaNative
October 17th, 2010 at 1:19 AM ^
No one is impressed with the last two weeks - but it's not hard to see the potential and 3 more wins. 8 wins this year, a hopefully improved team next year, and RR will be fine.
October 16th, 2010 at 11:08 PM ^
Last year we had Woolfolk and Warren and were still awful.
October 16th, 2010 at 11:14 PM ^
Hey OP and any one else who wants RR fired - what do you think next year and the couple years after will be like if he is gone? No Mike Martin, no Ryan Van Bergen, no David Molk. More attrition, even lower APR. Give the guy a chance to get his recruits to the point when they are upperclassmen. We are not Notre Dame. The bandwagon jumpers on this board are pathetic - a disgrace to the maize and blue faithful. Would love to know what you were saying 2 weeks ago, let alone before the season.
October 16th, 2010 at 11:25 PM ^
that we would have a semi-competent defense by then. Okay, Iowa and MSU are better teams. But the constant mental errors are indefensible.
October 16th, 2010 at 11:38 PM ^
So changing to our 4th d-coordinator in 5 years and losing our 3 most complete players as well as whoever leaves the program, and changing our offense is going to be a better situation?
October 17th, 2010 at 1:22 AM ^
This is what I find most amazing: Do people who have had "enough" of RR just think we'll get a new coach and be a 9 win team immediately? Let this play out. I almost want DB to give RR an extension (with no penalty for early termination) now just so people will just let it go.
October 17th, 2010 at 1:44 AM ^
With constant mental lapses? I can understand not being experienced, but why all the penalties today?
October 17th, 2010 at 1:50 AM ^
How the fuck does that equal "constant mental lapses" in your sub-optimal brain?
October 17th, 2010 at 2:10 AM ^
Iowa's second touchdown. Guy runs some combo of a post/drag across the middle. Stanzi leads him into the corner of the endzone. He runs by not one, BUT TWO db's who don't even try to cover him. He's wide open and makes an easy catch for a TD.
Iowa's score to go up 35-14. The CB gives up the inside, they run a slant that isn't even close to being contested.
The personal foul on Lewan that forced us into a 2nd and long on our second possession. The false starts which killed drives.
The throws into double coverage.
October 17th, 2010 at 2:14 AM ^
You're going to focus on how what I listed weren't all penalties. I'll save you the step... I meant this as a list of the obvious dumb stuff I saw.
October 17th, 2010 at 2:21 AM ^
you could... ya know... explain why these happened. Is it something in our scheme that we want Iowa's receivers to be open? Were they running some super complex route combo's out there?
October 17th, 2010 at 10:20 AM ^
Iowa's second touchdown. Guy runs some combo of a post/drag across the middle. Stanzi leads him into the corner of the endzone. He runs by not one, BUT TWO db's who don't even try to cover him. He's wide open and makes an easy catch for a TD.
I can't say for sure because I can't seem to find the game uploaded anywhere yet, but I think I remember the play you are talking about. M's defense dropped back into ZONE coverage. Again, if I had the play in front of me I could tell you what coverage, and who were the players involved etc. The Iowa WR ran a drag route in front of the defenders and caught the ball between the zones, leading to an anoying run after the catch for a touchdown. The catch itself was not the fault of the defenders that dropped back in coverage. They were just playing disciplined zone defense. The only way to stop that TD is to either get a pass rush on the QB, or to have veteran defenders read the eyes of the QB as he stared down the WR. We don't have either, so TD Iowa.
October 17th, 2010 at 2:25 AM ^
If you understand inexperience, then you should understand the penalties.
October 17th, 2010 at 2:33 AM ^
Plays a role in unnecessary personal fouls. IMO that's a lack of discipline.
October 17th, 2010 at 6:00 PM ^
...coaching changes to programs with *anything* in the cupboard lead to an improvement of around 3 wins (see the difference between Ron Zook and Meyer at Florida, or when Notre Dame goes 9-3 this season after 6-6 with Charlie Weiss).
So that's weak tea.
October 17th, 2010 at 1:42 AM ^
Who said we had to change the offense? The offense is fine.
The defense is the root of all the problems. Sure, they're not talented. But how come they're not even in position to make plays (or on the rare situations that they are in position, they fail to capitalize)? How come Iowa receivers are so wide open? How come simple concepts such as filling gaps isn't taught? How can Cam Gordon continually take awful angles on deep balls? Why are simple slants wide open? Why are running backs running to the flat always open without a defender within 5 yds to make a tackle?
October 17th, 2010 at 3:27 AM ^
Um, well since I was responding to those who want to fire RR, I was referring to the fact that if we hired someone else we would not be running the same offense which would mean the offense would change. Despite the fact that you approve of the offense, if you want RR gone you say goodbye to the offense.
October 16th, 2010 at 11:20 PM ^
By the time denard is a senior our offense will be damn near unstoppable. we just put up 500 yards on one of the best defenses in the nation. they just need to recruit like crazy on defense and fire robinson because that's what's setting this whole team back.
October 17th, 2010 at 1:27 AM ^
If GERG is the problem, how do you explain the development of Mouton, Kovacs, and the DL? And, I think Stevie B got much better last year as the year went on. Sure, not all the players have improved, but I don't think you can just look at the lack of development of 1st and 2nd year players and conclude that GERG is the problem.
It's not even clear to me who made the call to play a 335.
October 17th, 2010 at 1:50 AM ^
Players are supposed to improve as they get more experienced. Why was Obi Ezeh continually being run out there... he certainly didn't improve. Mouton is doing better than last year, but he was supposed to be at this level last year.
How do you explain how 5* recruit Donovan Warren didn't even make an NFL roster this year? Was it the exquisite secondary coaching? Or Morgan Trent who got worse from 2007 to 2008.