C-Webb, Double Standards, and Teenage Millionaires

Submitted by BeantownBlue on
This started as a reply to that MGoBoard post on Jalen Rose.  You know the one that got everyone debating whether or not we should ever allow Chris Webber back into the Crisler Building?  After writing a few paragraphs, I realized my diatribe might be more appropriate in Diary form.  So here goes...

I understand why everyone gets so emotional when the discussion of Chris Webber comes up. He was the central figure in an investigation that set our basketball program back more than a decade.  He lied to the authorities and has refused to apologize to Michigan fans. Our feelings are hurt and the banners are down.

I understand.

But I'd like to kindly ask you to forget about the RESULT of his actions for a moment. Rather, I would like you to consider his motivation at the time of his actions.

Chris Webber was a kid with a skill.  

He played basketball really well.

There are 14 and 15-year-old tennis players getting paid millions of dollars in endorsements for similar skills. There are teenagers who sign lucrative deals out of high school as top draft picks in the MLB. To a lesser extent, there are teenage kids making big cash as young hockey prospects. Shaun White, the olympic snowboarder, was making millions in endorsements by age 13, when he went pro.  

Why do we not vilify these kids for aspiring to cash in on their athletic success at such a young age? Why do we read about these kids in KidzWorld and Forbes magazine? Shouldn't we discuss their behavior with wagging fingers in the editorial section of the New York Times?  

The answer is simple. Those kids play sports that have systematic ways of providing monetary reward for aspiring talent. The MLB and NHL have spent millions investing in legitimate farm systems that develop talent and pay players modest sums. Tennis and snowboarding allow players to go pro whenever they like, freeing athletes to be sponsored by major corporations.

The NBA, on the other hand, continues to use the NCAA as a free minor league, sorting the best talent from the worst at the expense of universities--and the aspiring athletes.

Chris Webber elected to get paid under the table because the NBA didn't provide (and still doesn't provide) a viable minor league that pays well and invests in star athlete's futures. 

Sure, Webber could have used better judgement. He could've been more honest with federal investigators. And he sure could apologize to UM fans for letting them down.

But I hope we can acknowledge his wrong doings within the context of his circumstances. While other teen athletes were cashing in on their success to the tune of millions, we wanted Webber to simply smile and be thankful for a college scholarship. It was, and is, an unfair expectation, and we have the NBA to thank for it.

To those outraged by Webber's behavior--who don't want to see him back in Crisler under any circumstances-- I hope you hold similar contempt for Sidney Crosby, Maria Sharapova, and Michelle Wie. They were just a bunch of silly, greedy kids, who couldn't wait to cash in on their athletic success.

*****

EDIT/ADDENDUM:  To clear things up, I do not wish to absolve C-Webb for all wrongdoings.  I think he should apologize and acknowledge that he was a stupid kid who got caught up in something bigger than he could've fathomed as a kid.

I bring up the "NBA has no viable minor leauge" thing because I think it makes his actions more understandable given the context.  Teenage MLB draftees don't face the decision C-Webb faced.  They sign with agents and develop while they get paid.  

Lastly-- to those who say he could've gone pro out of high school-- there was NO precedent for this.  NONE.  Shawn Kemp went to UK and was kicked out for stealing.  He went pro because he had no other options (and faced the consequences of entering that world too soon).  Moses Malone was drafted in 1974 by the ABA.  Not an option for C-Webb.  Darryl Dawkins was the poster child for why going pro out of high school is a BAD idea.  C-Webb did what everyone did before Kevin Garnett (who went pro ONLY because he failed to get a 17 on the ACT).

Comments

dahblue

January 28th, 2010 at 11:20 AM ^

"Petulent spoiled child" is the phrase you used. That makes me judge you a hater. The guy has faults like anyone, but that is not an accurate evaluation. I hear the same nonsense and see the speaker(s) of the same run up for handshake/hug. Happens all the time.

M-Wolverine

January 28th, 2010 at 12:41 PM ^

You know you're not responding to the person who even said it, right? No, of course not...taking that much time to read would reduce time for trolling...

M-Wolverine

January 28th, 2010 at 12:40 PM ^

How do you know I DON'T know him? And how do I know you DO? In any regard, don't act like the man is a private figure. He's on national tv every week, and been asked questions about it for YEARS. He's had plenty of time to respond. And each time it's defiant, and acting like he did no wrong, and how DARE they ask him about it. It's all me me me. And I know you don't know squat, your point total shows that, and that what you're really going for is just to be a dick...but I'm around enough Michigan athletes that I don't need to stargaze anybody, and I don't really need to suck up to them then or now. And if I decided to invade Webber's private space, it would more likely to give him a brow beating than asking him for a signature. It does remind me of a fun story from my time in school though...me and my friend, walking around South U., with a friend of his from another school...and Webber and Jalen pass us, and we just keep walking...and the out of town friend is freaking out "Didn't you see?!?!? That was Jalen Rose and Chris Webber?!?!". And we're like "eh...they're just freshman...".

BeantownBlue

January 27th, 2010 at 10:10 PM ^

Aside from financial compensation, a simple act of contrition would go a long way. I guess that was my point. I'd like to see him show some remorse. Maybe have an "Oprah moment" where he acknowledges our (fan's) pain and apologizes. But I'd also like the fans to acknowledge that he entertained them and they enjoyed it. I just have a problem with the people who don't want to see him in Crisler under any circumstances.

Seth9

January 27th, 2010 at 6:14 PM ^

The sanctions resulting from the Ed Martin scandal cost the 2002-2003 Michigan team a likely bid to the NCAA tournament (at worst, they would have made the NIT). Because Chris Webber and others took money from Martin cost a Michigan team a postseason berth. Meanwhile, the program itself was put on probation, lost numerous scholarships, and a lot of pride. These were the results of Chris Webber's actions. Now, you ask us to look at his motivations, namely wishing to receive compensation for playing basketball after high school, but suffering from the lack of an NBA minor league system. Even if we ignore the fact that Webber could have simply turned pro rather than take money under the table, I still find him at fault here. Despite knowing the likely consequences should he be caught (the university being bombed by the NCAA, screwing over whoever happened to be playing for Michigan when the truth was uncovered), he decided to take the money. He decided to value a payday at the expense of the university. His choice screwed over the Michigan basketball program, which Webber knew was a possibility when he took the money. He chose to put the university at risk for selfish reasons and thus the university has no reason to forgive him. Considering the damage inflicted on the '02-03 team, I hope they never do.

The FannMan

January 27th, 2010 at 8:50 PM ^

Isn't that one of the glaring faults of the whole system? Weber, Bullock, Traylor et al take money and kids who were in the second grade at the time pay the tab. What the hell? After 10 years and everybody was gone, what was the point of hurting the 02-03 team? The NCAA needed to step up, admitt that they took too long, take a banner or two and call it a day.

M-Wolverine

January 27th, 2010 at 10:42 PM ^

If he absolutely had to get PAID, beyond skipping college (Garnett et al. weren't THAT long after him), he could have gone to Europe. No one thought that was a good idea...till someone did it this year and proved to be the best rookie in the NBA having done it. There are ways to get things done. He just picked the easy way.

M-Wolverine

January 28th, 2010 at 12:47 PM ^

There were players who left before their time for the NBA. There was a big law suit to allow it. The restrictions really didn't come on board till the players union agreed to it. And I'm still not sure it would stand up to legal scrutiny if someone had the money to challenge it. Edit: I see Shawn was brought up down below...

BeantownBlue

January 28th, 2010 at 3:59 PM ^

Kemp went to the University of Kentucky and got in trouble for pawning gold chains that he stole from Eddie Sutton's son. He then transferred to Trinity Valley Community College in Texas, where he wasn't allowed to play because he got there too late. Then he declared for the draft.

BeantownBlue

January 28th, 2010 at 6:59 PM ^

Lloyd daniels "read on a third grade level" coming out of high school (wikipedia) and was never allowed to play at UNLV because he bought crack from an undercover police officer. Shawn Kemp stole from his college coach's son. Can you come up with a single player (pre-Garnett) who entered the NBA draft out of high school because they thought it was the best way to develop their talent while earning money? If not, then you're ignoring the whole point of my original post.

ThWard

January 28th, 2010 at 7:13 PM ^

Sigh. I honestly don't see the point - as opposed to ignoring the point - of stating that pre-Garnett, players determined that playing in college first to develop their game would pay off more in the NBA than going straight. The point, as I saw it, was that, nonetheless, that was still a choice to be made, and one that C-Webb made. Again, I don't doubt that a different choice would have been unique, sent shockwaves through the sports world, and led to dozens of Jay Mariotti articles about how C-Webb's choice marked the decline of civilization. But the choice was there. C-Webb made the choice to stay an amateur... but break amateur rules. Again, I get the mitigation point, but at the end of the day, it just doesn't seem that complicated. Lots of people were at fault ("I want to put the whole SYSTEM ON TRIAL!! ARGH!") including amateur sports, generally. But so was C-Webb. A simple fact that he's never acknowledged, to my understanding.

BeantownBlue

January 28th, 2010 at 7:48 PM ^

on two things you said: "Lots of people were at fault" and "so was C-Webb." That's my point. I hope he apologizes one day. And I also hope that people one day forgive him for being a stupid kid AND acknowledge that he was only one of MANY people who dropped the ball.

M-Wolverine

January 29th, 2010 at 12:04 AM ^

Rather than debating the minutiae of who did or didn't, the fact was he could. Nothing prohibited it. Would it have been a bit more earth shaking? Well, the world didn't come to an end when Garnett did it a couple of years later. It just changed who was first. There WAS a choice. A hard one? For sure. But taking money had some hard consequences too.

BeantownBlue

January 28th, 2010 at 3:50 PM ^

Moses Malone went out of high school to the ABA, developed his talent and went onto a successful NBA career. This was not an option for C-Webb as the ABA was no longer around. (See OP: No viable minor league). Darryl Dawkins and Bill Willoughby were drafted in 1975 by NBA teams. They both established the precedent of why jumping from HS to the NBA was a bad idea. Dawkins had very little success, broke a few backboards, and retired as a Harlem Globetrotter. Willoughby never panned out. NO OTHER PLAYERS entered the NBA draft out of high school until Kevin Garnett in 1995. NONE.

BeantownBlue

January 28th, 2010 at 7:04 PM ^

You're digging deep M-Wolverine. That was 1962 when they had more than two rounds (he was drafted in the 4th) and he didn't even play in the NBA his first year after the draft. BTW. I meant that there were no players after Dawkins (1975-1995) who were drafted out of high school

BeantownBlue

January 29th, 2010 at 9:14 AM ^

If you really wish to delve into semantics and accuracy, let's do so. I wrote a paragraph about Dawkins and Willoughby, and how they established a precedent of why jumping to the NBA was a bad idea. I then said "NO OTHER PLAYERS" jumped from HS to the NBA until Garnett. That is accurate. Unless Reggie Harding jumped into a time machine and learned from Dawkins and Willoughby's precedent, you're grasping at straws.

chitownblue2

January 28th, 2010 at 6:11 PM ^

The ABA wasn't a minor league - it was an alternative professional league - unless you regard a league with Charlier Scott, Dr. J., Moses Malone, Artis Gilmore, and George Gervin a "minor league". They were getting UNC's best player immediately out of college - it's hard to call that a "minor league" unless you would call the USFL a "minor league" as well, and ignore guys like Steve Young, Jim Kelly, and Herschel Walker. Malone got paid, right? Isn't that what we're talking about? And what does Dawkins having his career derailed by injury have to do with it? You said there was no precedent for high school kids going pro. That's not true. Moses Malone and Darryl Dawkins went pro. Further, there are a number of guys, like Shawn Kemp, who spent 3 months in college, never played a game, and went to the NBA.

BeantownBlue

January 28th, 2010 at 7:26 PM ^

The fact that you're referencing precedents from the 1970s is only helping me make my point--which is (and was in the OP) that MOST players chose to develop their game in college because the NBA didn't provide a viable way to develop their talent while getting paid. And yeah, I mislabeled the ABA as a minor league. Maybe that wasn't a fair description. But it was (despite the involvement of some talented players) not as strong a league as the NBA. I won't waste paragraphs trying to argue that because it's a fact. My point was that the ABA was a league more willing to take the risk (and the publicity) of taking on a high school kid. And rather than continuing a debate about the strength of the ABA (because, let's be honest, that's a losing issue for you), can you at least acknowledge that Webber's options for developing into a solid pro while getting paid were limited by the NBA's failure to provide a viable minor league?

chitownblue2

January 29th, 2010 at 1:03 AM ^

I don't understand your argument. That Webber was justified in breaking a rule? He wasn't countless other kids didn't, he did. Was Michigan partly to blame for getting nailed? Sure - assistant coaches provided Martin with access to players, and Fisher turned the other way. But Webber was in with Martin well before Michigan became involved. Webber's involvement with Martin - a criminal - is on Webber, not Michigan. Webber opted to stay an amateur. Would his going pro have been unique? Sure - but someone was the first in 20 years - Garnett opted to go pro. So did Kobe and Jermaine O'Neal. They faced the same circumstance that Webber did, and...got paid.

BeantownBlue

January 29th, 2010 at 8:57 AM ^

I am not trying to absolve C-Webb of wrongdoing. He was wrong. He must apologize if we are ever to allow him back in the fold. My point is this: If the NBA provided a similar minor league system (like the MLB or NHL), he would've been surrounded by pro scouts, lawyers, and agents who would have approached him on behalf of professional organizations interested in investing in his future. But the NBA allows the NCAA to operate as a free minor league, and star basketball players are surrounded by AAU coaches and sketchy college boosters. So Webber was partly the product of his environment. And IF he is ever apologetic (big IF I know), I hope we can forgive him. Because, YES, he made bad choices. But they were choices that baseball and hockey prospects don't face. They have a much more logical path of development. That is all.

chitownblue2

January 29th, 2010 at 11:28 AM ^

That's all fine, and I largely agree with it. But then you muddled your argument by trying to equate what Webber did to what Sidney Crosby or Michele Wie did, as if the equivilancy absolves him. The largest difference is that Wie and Crosby never broke any well-documented rules or regulations. You can make excuses for that fact about the NCAA being a minor league, etc., but that didn't, and won't, work for guys like Reggie Bush, Joe McKnight, Craig James, Eric Dickerson, etc. They knew the rules, and they broke them. Wie and Crosby did not break rules. Further, just because few players had gone straight from High School to that point, and none had recently, doesn't mean it was an impossibility. Garnett and Bryant crossed that line. Webber, unlike, say, Dickerson, James, Bush, and McKnight, wasn't literally barred from entrance. He could have tried. I know that you want to draw a line of demarcation between Shawn Kemp and Kevin Garnett, but I fail to see how his presence for 3 months at Kentucky changes what he was in the eyes of the NBA, at least not in a positive way. Kemp was a kid who virtually no coaching past high school, had never demonstrated his skills against NCAA or even JUCO competition, and was roughly the same age as Webber. PLUS he had documented behavioral problems that could lead to even more concern about his maturity - and he STILL got drafted. So - he was a 19 year old-kid with no track-record against competition beyong AAU and high school and a documented past of behavioral problems, but the NBA deigned fit to draft him. I think that DOES count as a precedent. His alternative options to the NBA aren't relevant - he (and others like him) showed that the NBA was willing to roll the dice on young, talented, immature, and possibly troubled players. His 3 months at UK doesn't change that.

el segundo

January 28th, 2010 at 6:51 PM ^

The University is not an innocent victim here. Regardless of whether anyone thinks that Webber bears responsibility for the scandal, the coaches who recruited him had to know that his association with Ed Martin made him a high-risk recruit. Those coaches recruited him anyway and let Ed Martin hang around the program. And the adminsitrators supervising the coaches should have had some clue about what was going on as well, certainly by the time that Webber arrived on campus with Martin in tow. Given all of this, it wouldn't be surprising if Webber thought that his coaches and possibly even the University adminsitration itself knew about Martin and had no problem with his relationship with Martin. That doesn't absolve Webber of responsibility. But there's no reason to pin all of the blame on Webber, either.

StephenRKass

January 27th, 2010 at 6:29 PM ^

I won't excuse C-Webb's actions. But I do have fond memories, and I don't blame him. Further, I'd like to see him come back to Crisler, and I don't completely get the bile he receives from a significant number of posters so many people on this board.

dahblue

January 27th, 2010 at 8:07 PM ^

Many of the same haters ripping into Cwebb are the first ones eagerly awaiting an autograph with a sharpie in hand. They boo from the stands and compliment face-to-face. Sure, Chris did some wrong, but he didn't ruin the program. After Webb, we had many high value recruits with a terrible coach. I'll take 100 more CWebb's. Others can have all the Brian Ellerbe's they want.

Ernis

January 27th, 2010 at 7:47 PM ^

You ask us to ignore the outcomes of his actions and focus exclusively on taking money as a talented young athlete, as if this exists in a vacuum? That's absolutely ridiculous. Actions are to be evaluated based on their outcomes. Even assuming your argument about Webber's intentions is valid, as the old saying goes: The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

tom c

January 27th, 2010 at 8:19 PM ^

Last I checked, he was compensated with an education from Michigan! Do White and Wie play for Michigan? Circumstances. K Chris we know you needed it more then that dude in Engineering that works two jobs so it's ok.

jsquigg

January 27th, 2010 at 8:23 PM ^

Even though this was short, excellent diary. The NFL is guilty of this too, although it would probably be harder to establish a minor league for football. I have many other unspoken problems with the collegial system in the states that can be summed up by one word: money.

TheLastHarbaugh

January 27th, 2010 at 8:27 PM ^

If Webber needs to apologize then the University of Michigan needs to estimate the amount of money they made off of the Fab Five, and the second coming of the Fab Five and donate all of that money to charity. Michigan is more to blame than Webber. Michigan was corrupt. They turned a blind eye to what was happening, or they were completely ignorant to what was going on, which still makes them every bit as responsible. C-Webb was 18 years old, he was just a kid. Maybe he knew it was illegal, maybe Martin convinced him that nothing was wrong. Maybe when you're 18 and someone hands you $100,000 just to be your friend that sounds like a pretty damn good proposition. Webber is not personally responsible for the downfall of the Michigan men's basketball program, the Michigan men's basketball program is responsible for the downfall of the Michigan men's basketball program.

M-Wolverine

January 28th, 2010 at 12:51 PM ^

If you don't know your kids is getting thousands of dollars from someone, a stranger as you'd have us believe, they're not doing very good jobs as parents. Which would lend credence to him not being so swell a guy. But more likely they knew exactly what was going on. Knew him and endorsed it. (As some reported at the time). And you still need to work on that reading comprehension thing...

dahblue

January 28th, 2010 at 1:05 PM ^

I need to work on reading comprehension, but you need to work on making a good argument that doesn't make things up. At what point did I say Martin was a "stranger"? He was a guy around the basketball community. He was not a stranger. The point was that he was NOT a known criminal as one of the haters herein alleged. If you have proof (not more shit that you make up so your point doesn't look so weak), feel free to post it. If you just keep makin' believe; feel free. Hate on, hater.