RichRod
October 31st, 2009 at 6:34 PM ^
If we lose out, then I think RR should be fired at the end of the season. The biggest problem at the point will be that the players no longer believe in his system which is the same thing as the system not objectively working. Today is the biggest black mark on RR's record at M. It makes his spread philosophy look old and worn out. Personally, I'm not as committed to seeing a third year after this.
October 31st, 2009 at 6:41 PM ^
Agreed. If we lose out, and only if we lose out, it's time to cut bait.
October 31st, 2009 at 7:05 PM ^
Why is it his fault the players didn't execute in the redzone like they did from the 30-30?
October 31st, 2009 at 7:15 PM ^
Are all coach firing decisions assessed this fairly? It's a political position in a lot of ways, and two losing seasons probably can't be explained away. It's like being president during a recession--you policies may or may not have precipitated the drop, but you were there. And people are mad.
November 1st, 2009 at 12:07 PM ^
people make stupid and irrational decisions when they are angry...or drunk.
November 1st, 2009 at 2:58 PM ^
just wanted rich to go to the i form and run it with grady. I mean I thought he was our goal line back?
October 31st, 2009 at 7:14 PM ^
I at least think we beat a pretty bad Purdue team next week. If we lose to both Wisconsin and Ohio State, and lose badly, there should be serious consideration to a dramatic change in the trajectory of our program.
I'm sick of whining about "wait until he gets his own players" and the anti-Lloyd Carr mafia spreading all sorts of crap about Lloyd "leaving the cupboard bare" and "not being supportive." At the end of the day, this is Rich Rodriguez and his merry band of West Virginia ex-pats on the sidelines putting this team on the field week in and week out.
If they can't get the job done, if they can't win on the road in the Big 10 against one-win teams coached by perhaps one of the worst in-game coaches in the conference, the excuses have to stop and the questions have to start.
October 31st, 2009 at 6:36 PM ^
longer?
October 31st, 2009 at 6:39 PM ^
Ray Roundtree, David Moseman, talking about their fucking halloween costumes during that great run by Vincent Smith, they were just fucking horrible. Made watching a bad game worse, and I usually like Patrick.
November 1st, 2009 at 6:56 PM ^
they were calling him Mossman
like this guy:
October 31st, 2009 at 6:41 PM ^
I fully supported Rich Rod up until 2 weeks ago...but sooner or later even a blind man has to see the truth.
There have been too many mistakes in his error, both on and off the field. This team has never even remotely resembled a well-coached team in 21 games.
Sorry Rich...your error is coming to an end.
October 31st, 2009 at 6:42 PM ^
Zook 2
Rich Rod zip
October 31st, 2009 at 6:49 PM ^
I wouldnt mind if tate never sees the field in 2010. He's regressed beyond the point of "Freshman" mistakes.
October 31st, 2009 at 7:02 PM ^
You're an idiot.
That's all.
November 1st, 2009 at 3:00 PM ^
this is what scares me
October 31st, 2009 at 6:50 PM ^
I can accept this year, provided we make it to a bowl game. That said, I will expect a high level of improvement next year, when there is no excuse for a lack of offense.
That said, I wouldn't be completely surprised if he was fired solely because we decided to jump the gun and hire Brian Kelly. That said, Kelly probably isn't going anywhere after this year, so doing so would probably be premature. I personally don't endorse this line of reasoning, but merely point out that it is a possibility, especially since Kelly seems to churn out good QBs and defenses, which were glaring flaws in today's game.
October 31st, 2009 at 7:36 PM ^
There is zero chance that an AD on the verge of retirement would make that move. RR is safe for now, barring some kind of stunning NCAA development.
October 31st, 2009 at 9:33 PM ^
When we hire a new AD, which could occur before the logical window for firing RichRod is over, it is possible that he will fire RichRod. I don't think it would happen, but it's always possible.
For instance, it is not inconceivable that a new AD with no reason to be predisposed to liking RichRod could takeover in time to see a 6-6 season (probable with a win over Purdue, followed by two losses), a bowl loss (possible, depending on the bid), and some minor NCAA violations coming out of the current investigation (possible). This new AD might then fire RichRod.
November 1st, 2009 at 6:41 PM ^
Bill Martin is not stepping down until September 2010. Until then, he is still the AD, regardless of when we hire the new guy. There is zero chance that Martin will make a coaching change in the final year of his tenure as AD, barring some kind of gigantic scandal. Ergo, RR is safe for the time being.
October 31st, 2009 at 7:00 PM ^
Did I fucking get redirected to the RCMB by mistake? People who are ready to bail on RR after this game are justifying every insult to "Walmart Wolverines" that any MSU fan has ever written. I'm as fucking pissed about this loss as anyone, but the last thing the team needs is for its fans to turn into pathetic bandwagon-jumpers.
I won't be an asshole and tell anyone here how they should think, but I really wish I could see more of the patience, intellect, and maturity that is supposed to be one of the hallmarks of this board.
RR's offense is solid, but it takes a QB to run it. I can't believe that Forcier is any better than seventy percent right now. RR has tried DRob, but at this point in time, seventy percent of Forcier is still better than a hundred percent of DRob or Sheridan. The biggest problem I see is that somewhere in Forcier's missing thirty percent is that split-second that turned him from a typical freshman QB into a brilliant playmaker.
The defense is terrible, but you can't really blame RR for that, either. Like the offense, they are young, and they are just getting beaten by superior play from opponents right now. And one of the more common comments this week is that RR "isn't recruiting enough people on defense." RR is recruiting plenty of them; he has just lost out on too many recruits on that side of the ball so far. That eventually turns around.
It is a roller coaster to watch a young team grow. They show spurts of potential followed by mind-bending incompetence. That's just the way rebuilding is. Those of you who want to throw RR under the bus are going to do it anyway, but I intend to keep supporting RR until he has the personnel to execute his vision on both sides of the ball.
RR didn't suddenly lose thirty points of IQ by moving to Michigan, despite what his "fans" in WV and a few bandwagon-jumpers in A2 think. He is still the same coach who has won everywhere he has been. And people are using his offense to get to the title game.
If you want to jump off the bandwagon and throw RR under the bus, go ahead; it's your choice. But it might be a lot more fun to have a little bit of patience and faith. It will make it that much more fun when the team finally does get back to where we want them to be.
October 31st, 2009 at 9:30 PM ^
"He is still the same coach who has won everywhere he has been. "
I don't think that being an offensive coordinator can qualify in that statement and the Big East until very recently was hardly relevant either.
I'm certainly not calling for him to be fired on Monday, but if we lose out then some serious discussion needs to be made in that direction. Do we only keep him because there is no one else available? $2.5 million/year should get more than 8 wins in 2 years. Do we want to become Notre Dame who has kept the whale ignoring all the evidence that a change needs made?
Again, only if we lose out. This isn't just a loss. We got CRUSHED by a 1-6 team which should be unacceptable to a program of Michigan's stature.
November 1st, 2009 at 2:37 PM ^
I like the Walmart Wolverines reference...good call. Asking for patience from Michigan fans is like asking a) everyone in the stadium not to criticize the playcalling regardless or era and/or coaching staff (it's the Michigan fan's right) b) asking Sparty fans not to burn couches (it's the MSU fan's right) or c) asking commentators to not talk about SEC speed all the time (hello CBS).
There are some things in this life that are not malleable.
Nice work.
October 31st, 2009 at 7:10 PM ^
To PaulVB for his Mod edit.
He certainly does have to prove to me as a ticket buyer and someone who donates that he is the guy. Obviously, the program would go on without my small contributions and I will continue to support Michigan Football for the rest of my life regardless of the guy, but I have to wonder how many people feel the same way I do and what impact that might have on the program going forward. Asking a coach to prove to the fans that he is guy to guide the ship is not unreasonable. In fact, much like it is up to citizens to hold elected official to certain standards, it is up to Michigan fans to hold the program and its staff to certain standards. I still am willing to give him a third year, but I am no longer a blind supporter.
October 31st, 2009 at 8:02 PM ^
are the worst. Don't break your ankle jumping off the bandwagon.
October 31st, 2009 at 11:32 PM ^
Where do I say anything about giving up Michigan football? I have never been or ever will be a bandwagon fan.
October 31st, 2009 at 8:11 PM ^
Does anyone here recommending we bail on coach Rod for the sake of hiring Kelly remember what ND did a few years ago? They fired Willingham to hire Meyer and ended up with Weis. Does anyone really want to go down that road?
Also, I find it really chickenshit for a mod to edit an original post to throw in their .02. If you have a point to make, reply.
October 31st, 2009 at 8:14 PM ^
I'm not quite sure if that is as relevant. Willingham had three years.
October 31st, 2009 at 8:20 PM ^
Rod will be here for another 2-3 years. Everybody has to deal with it, whether they like it or not. Maybe we'll be alright in the future, maybe we'll fall apart like Louisville under Kragthorpe. Who knows at this point. Just got to deal with it and support the team.
October 31st, 2009 at 8:24 PM ^
I'm not sure I get what you're saying. Kragthorpe is only in season 3 at Louisville. If we are 3-6 next year at this point, I'll bet you a good chunk of change Rodriguez is gone at the end of the season.
November 1st, 2009 at 2:41 PM ^
I like the perspective you bring here but this isn't a school where football is a distant second in the sporting universe. I'm patient that this thing will improve but if we look like Louisville in a year things will be intensely scrutinized by the new AD etc. if only because of the revenue implications for the school.
November 1st, 2009 at 1:39 PM ^
This has been said in some form throughout the thread, but those who are calling for Rich Rod's head put M at risk for becoming something more like Sparty, or, worse, latter-day ND.
I get the frustration; I'm frustrated, too. But some of you *really* want a coaching change? After a year and a half??
Think about the repercussions - some poor schlub comes in facing another situation where he's got another coach's players trying to fit into hypothetical new coach's system. What happens then? We fire him, too?? Not to mention: what coach would come to M when it would seem that some its fans are willing to kneecap his chances at winning before he even gets a chance.
The reality is that continuity and an opportunity to grow are necessary elements for a coaching change to succeed. People calling for Rich Rod's firing, IME, lack a fundamental understanding of why we're losing, as well as an understanding of college football in general.
November 1st, 2009 at 2:44 PM ^
I appreciate your avoiding the typical micro analysis of the coaching changes and adding some depth in perspective.
Thanks.
November 1st, 2009 at 7:00 PM ^
"bandwagon fans"
The cavalier tossing about of this label is really lame - every fan has a right to criticize his or her team, players, coaches. It makes them no less of a fan. I would even argue that some who call for change, for more years of pain to get back to where this program should be, while somewhat misguided as BlueinDC said, may even care more about the program than those who blindly support it no matter what. I may always consider myself a Democrat, but that doesn't mean I have to vote for who they nominate for president or not criticize Democrats.
Also - the mod's editing of the OP is pretty lame too.
November 1st, 2009 at 7:44 PM ^
I think calling people speculating about Coach Rod's job security "bandwagon fans" is pretty mild. He is in year two of a massive rebuilding project. If you don't believe me, just look at how many seniors are on this team (not many) and how many scholarships remain unused (lots). Second guessing or criticizing a particular decision is one thing, but even thinking that Rodriguez could/should be fired in the near future simply because his team is playing according to its experience level (if not better) is ridiculous.
Understanding how a successful program is built (successful recruiting now helps your team in 3-4 years, not immediately), having a sense of the learning curve for inexperienced college football players and taking both into account when assessing the performance of an insanely young team is not "blindly supporting" the coach. It is being an intelligent fan. Conversely, the people slamming Coach Rod because "omg make tackles, urrgghhg mistakes, no fumbles, freshman no excuse, this is UNACCEPTABLE!" are idiots (I would call them something worse, but everybody here seems to get offended when people say "retard").
November 1st, 2009 at 7:51 PM ^
I dont disagree - but you are citing the extreme cases of idiot fans, which is why I said "I would even argue that some who call for change..." I purposefully used the work "some" - some fans have made level-headed complaints about RR while some have been idiots. I simply think the term "bandwagon" should not be given to both.
November 1st, 2009 at 8:04 PM ^
but teams are supposed to improve throughout the course of a year, while we've seemingly regressed. last week you can say we screwed the pooch against a much better opponent but that line of thinking won't work this week.
fact is, we lost to a team who had 1 win with a coach who has constantly been mocked and ridiculed on this board as someone who cant make in-game changes yet we got destroyed in the 3rd quarter after we were in relative complete control of the game.
the team still looks almost comically bad 21 games into rr's tenure. with fumbles, penalties, yakety sax, and more fumbles, and dropped punts, and more fumbles, and fumbles, and fumbles.
how much of this is on rr? i dunno. he IS the head coach, and has been so since December 2007. these arent all his players, but they've all been in his system for 2 years and things we saw last year against utah are still happening this year 9 games into the season.
November 1st, 2009 at 8:14 PM ^
This team has been up and down in its performance all year because they are extremely young. Just because the second half of the last game was terrible, doesn't mean the team is regressing (as you pointed out, they looked great up until the goal-line stand). Anyone who expects a team loaded with first and second year players not to make tons of mistakes doesn't know anything about college football. These problems will all be sorted out when Rodriguez has a team full of experienced and talented upperclassmen supplemented by a couple recruiting classes worth of extra talent. This, however, takes time.
November 3rd, 2009 at 4:46 PM ^
is coming from the fact that while yes, it does take 3-4 years to build a program, we had an incredibly successful program (albeit one that needed a heavy injection of modernizing) and we've seen regression based on an entirely new system being brought in.
We had the pieces in place to continue our tradition of pro-style offense and a defense full of highly rated recruits and in my opinion merely needed a coach who could maintain the program as LLoyd did but unlike Lloyd, was not too stubborn to adapt the game plan against non big-ten opponents.
I don't mean to re-hash the past but am merely trying to convey where a lot of the frustration with RR is coming from
November 3rd, 2009 at 2:40 PM ^
next season, i expect us to get to a decent bowl game. the season after that (season 4), i expect us to be a serious big10 title contender.
if richrod doesn't get us there, by then, then i will be worried.
November 3rd, 2009 at 5:02 PM ^
I say this because if he is fired, then it's back to square one with recruits and system. Unless they would hire a coach who runs the zone read offense like RR does. You get another pro-style coach in here and then the players are all wrong for that offense.
I think what we need is to get a couple freaks on the d-line and a couple corners who can play man all day and give out more than they take. The D steps up and shuts down some offenses, our offense gets pumped and they play a little more physical and get the ball in the endzone more. Talent is there on offense, while consistency is not. Talent is not there on defense. That's what needs the most work.