Ty Isaac transferring from USC
IIRC, we were his leader for a bit. Was a 5-star RB; do we take him if we don't get Damien Harris? (He played sparingly last year in his freshman campaign -- I'd imagine he would have to sit out a year unless he gets a waiver. 40 carries for a 5.9 YPC average and 2 touchdowns as a 3rd/4th string backup last year.)
#USC tailback Ty Isaac confirmed that he's been released from his scholarship and will to transfer closer to home. Story coming.
— Chris Swanson (@ChrisPSwanson) May 14, 2014"Sophomores Javorius “Buck” Allen and Tre Madden, freshmen Justin Davis and Ty Isaac, and junior D.J. Morgan all return in 2014."
http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/colleges/usc/post/_/id/15774/trojans-ar…
WRONG
word is hes going to michigan. great news
HES BLUE
Wolverine in a Bag? I'd be interested in his thoughts
Obviously, we could be surprised and it could be "none of the above" for his transfer destination, but in addition to the Notre Dame offer that someone mentioned above, he had offers from Purdue, Illinois, Michigan, Wisconsin, Indiana, Iowa, Northwestern, Penn State and Ohio State as well as offers from several SEC schools. If he comes to the Big Ten, I am sure most everyone in the conference that offered would still be interested.
You have to love the 5.9 yard per carry after this past year!
6.9 YPC more than Al Borges would have gotten from him
Is there some sarcasm here? Cause 5.9ypc on 40 attempts is nothing to scoff at...
I don't think he would even consider us, looking at two starting sophmore running backs and also trying to get the top 2015 RB. Never say never, but extremely unlikely.
HE HAS TO SIT OUT A YEAR. HES BLUE GUYS . WE GOT HIM . GREAT NEWS
WRONG
I TOLD YOU GUYS THE PARTY ROOM IS RIGHT
Ugh. The stupid thing is that he wanted to be closer to home all along. Then he got caught up in the ideal of USC and made a choice based on outside influences rather than his own wants.
He could have ended up at Notre Dame or Michigan or somewhere else close by, but now he sort of wasted time at USC and will have to sit on the bench for a year.
DONT WORRIE DUDE , HES BLUE
might depend on how many co-eds he hooked up with at SC
High schoolers are stupid.
WE SURE DO.
I'm also convinced he is transferring to play bball for Beilein! MOAR TRANSFERS!!!
Think he fits better in an under center, zone scheme offense personally (one cut and go), but could be a Brandon Minor-esk power back as well.
Coming out of high school, I often questioned if his skill set was better suited for WR. Interesting that in the article they related him to a TE. He would be a scary player to have running the seam. All that said, looks like he'll be looking to play RB. I'd say the favorites based on absolutely nothing would be ND and Illinois, but it will be interesting to see if this nearly identical staff looks into him coming to Michigan.
Sorry, I speak little Spanish. "Is what?" Anyway, I prefer to spell it fonetically.
In consecutive classes the RBs they targeted more intently than any others were Ty Issac and Brionte Dunn. These guys were the top (realistic) choices for RB and neither has had any success early in their college careers.
Of the guys they did get: Rawls wasn't good, Houma, Norfleet, Shallman have shifted away from RB, Johnson has been hurt, and Smith and Green, OL issues not withstanding, did not look like stars their freshman years.
Mikey Weber was a blue chipper that this staff foolishy turned their nose at, and are now trying to win back. Somebody else decommited, I hear.
...I'm going to make the bold assertion that RB recruiting has gone very poorly under Hoke. Hopefully Nuss can fix it.
Pretty much everyone wanted Isaac, Dunn, and Green. So if this staff's RB evaluation is bad, almost all programs are bad. This staff wanted a runner to work between the tackles, these backs fit that mold.
Isaac is a between the tackles runner with great speed. He was in the rotation last year and was expected to be again this year - despite having a lower back injury this spring. He was only a FR that needed to get used to college style schemes (he played in a full house backfield in high school IIRC). He is a long strider, so power schemes probably aren't optimal for him, but one cut and go he can still be a top-level RB. And his position flexibility is extremely high (could play WR or H-back as well as possibly on the defensive side of the football).
Dunn, meanwhile, is more of a Power O back in my mind. Went to OSU where they had some capable backs in Hyde and Hall, and supposedly had some discipline issues. He still has talent and could eventually be a good back for them when he isn't a FR. I don't put much weight in not playing above Smith or Hyde as the primary back between the tackles.
Rawls was a late pick up, a reach with little time to go elsewhere. Houma was always intended to be a FB/H-back, which he may be the starter at that position now (and in a WCO provides a lot of flexibility in the play action run game, he simply needed more seasoning and bulk to get up to speed blocking, which he didn't do a lot in high school). Norfleet was a late pick-up and was never really considered a true RB. He was always an athlete for the return game that they would try to find a way to get him on the field. He's still that, but for a signing day pick up that's pretty good.
I wasn't a huge fan of Johnson coming out, but he was a serviceable RB when Michigan really needed more RBs. He could run between the tackles and Michigan was looking to get back to recruiting in the state. They still had bigger fish to fry at the time, but a bird in the hand was worth two in the bush. They still went after guys like Dunn though.
Shallman was hurt, but was always going to be a guy that got a shot at RB and then moved. At worst, he's a pretty good player for Michigan to have as a FB/H-back pick up.
I pretty much think all the guys you listed can still break out. They are all still young. So no, I think their evaluation for what they want at the position is just fine.
You make a good point, but Michigan pursued them at least as hard as anyone else. Presumably, at the expense of finding other options (a la Rodriguez with Pryor).
I don't disagree with any of your observations about individual players. However and regardless, the results for Michigan RBs and top targets under this staff have, in aggregate, not been good. Yes, they could still break out but the early returns are not great. Typically by now there should be at least one or two guys that we are glad to have or wish we had.
It's amazing this staff just couldn't find any all americans RBs as freshmen. Just poor recruiting.
FYI, the fact you classified Green and Smith as "not good" targets is laughable.
Also FYI, I'm pretty happy and excited to have both those running backs.
I didn't classify Smith and Green and "not good targets". I classified their production as not good - which is valid.
I'm happy to have them too even though they might be a little redundant to each other. I'd prefer some smaller, shiftier backs to be in the mix...like Weber and Harris.
I'm disappointed that you even bothered to respond to that
Do you mean Damien Harris? He's still strongly considering Michigan. I don't think you understand how the running back position works. It's very rare for a true freshman to be playing at an elite college level. But yeah, keep saying that "RB recruiting has gone very poorly under Hoke" when he did get a 5* RB last year and another incredibly solid RB in Smith.
It's not rare for freshman RBs to make a significant impact. Hoke has had 3 classes to get an impact RB and none have done it so far.
Yes, the '11 class is excusable and yes, the '13 class is too young to rule out...but the early returns don't look good on the 3 classes in total...including the guys they missed on.
Do you think that's OL or RB? I don't think that Adrian Peterrson could run behind last year's line.
which is why looking at what Dunn and Isaac have done at other schools might be instructive. Relative to their talent/recruiting profile/hype, they have not been standouts.
Can anyone honestly say they were encouraged by Green's play last season? Honestly? No one expects freshmen running backs to play at "an elite college level," but you do expect to see flashes from the great ones.
I hope like hell he turns into a dominating tailback, and he might, but I was pretty disappointed by what I saw from him last fall. And that's all the game evidence we have for making future predictions.
Blaming Derrick Green for last year and calling him a bust doesn't make sense. Is it his fault that the guys in front of him missed their blocks and he had guys in his face two yards behind the LOS every damn play. Name a RB that would have averaged 30 ypg last year.
Doesn't sound like anyone is blaming him for the lack of production.
Point is - He didn't look especially impressive though, for a 5-star back supposedly ranked #1 or #2 in the country. He didn't look any better than the other guys dealing with the same cruddy blocking.
Nobody can run behind a crap line and anyone can run behind a great line. If everything is on the OL why even bother offering scholarships to RBs.
The obvious answer is it's some of both. Again, Green didn't distinguish himself the way his recruiting rankings suggest he might have.
Mat, it seems like many of your posts in recent weeks/months have had a very Negative Nancy tilt. You're really reaching with some of your conclusions.
Ty Isaac had 40 carries for 236 yards, 5.9 yards/carry, and 2 touchdowns as a true freshman in 2013. Say what you want about Lane Kiffin and USC's program, but they have a boatload of talent at running back. That team included Isaac, Justin Davis (who I would have ranked higher than Isaac), Silas Redd, Tre Madden, and Javorius Allen. The carries were spread between 40 and 138 and they all averaged between 4.6 and 6.8 yards/carry.
Houma wasn't recruited as a running back. He was recruited as a fullback and is still playing that position (though the definition probably changes a bit with Nussmeier).
It's also somewhat contradictory to say that Mikey Weber was "a blue chipper that this staff foolishly turned their nose at." Yet the blue chippers that Michigan DID recruit (such as Derrick Green), you have already written off and said Hoke didn't do a good job by choosing them. Your conclusion seems to be that Derrick Green should have been turned away because he had a bad freshman season of college, but that Mikey Weber should have been recruited hard because he was good as a 10th grader.
Anyway, I think you're being a glass-half-full guy, and it seems to be you're campaigning against Hoke. If you don't like Brady Hoke as coach, that's fine. I see some reasons why. But don't twist reality in the process.
I know you're fond of pulling out garbage time stats and reading into them (Mike Cox), but Issac was a 4th string guy for USC. Are the loaded with talent, yes, but Michigan gave Isaac more attention than anyone else and he's a 5-star kid who didn't do much and now is transferring, so it's fair to say the early returns are disappointing for everyone involved...not that he can't become a good player still.
Regarding Houma and others - I'm well aware of their profiles - was just listing all the people that were RBs. The Houma recruitment is even easier to criticize from the perspective of allocating multiple scholarships to a position where you can get by with walk-ons at. This comes at the expense of other positions where we've struggled with depth - like QB and OL for example.
Nowhere nohow did I say Green should have been turned away and I am not campaigning against Hoke. I'm pointing out an area of weakness, as far as that can be ascertained after a few seasons. For all I know Borges is to be blamed.
I really don't agree with most of Mat's overall point here, but I agree that the stats people are quoting about Isaac need some context, and Mat is correct that they were basically garbage time stats, or against the worst defenses USC played.
Isaac had 87 of his 236 yards and his only two touchdowns of the year in a 62-28 blowout at Cal, who had an AWFUL D. SC's other RB, Buck Allen, had 135 yards a 2 TDs on 6 carries in that game. 6 carries. That makes Isaac's 87 yards on 11 carries look less impressive. The only other games where Isaac carried the ball more than 3 times were thrashings against Colorado and Fresno St. In those games he averaged 3.3 and 5.5 yards per carry, respectively.
Against the good defenses they faced, he had 1 carry for 1 yard against ND, 1 carry for 2 yards against Stanford and 2 carries for -2 yards against Oregon State. He had 2 carries for 20 yards against UCLA who has a good D, but that was after the game was out of hand as well.
So I don't think we can put a lot of weight into what Ty Isaac did last year, because outside of that Cal game, he had 29 carries for 149 yards, 5.1 ypc, 0 TDs. That's still not awful, it's just not much to go on.
I am not agreeing with all of what Mat is saying but even freshman RB should flash a bit. I didnt think either of ours did but then again they were running behind (NSFW).
Look at Delton Williams who was the 3rd string RB at MSU - true freshman. 6-1, 220 - similar size to our 2 freshman and he averaged 6.3 yards on 38 carries. They were not in garbage time. He did not play the first 4 games of the year when MSU had its patsies and ND. And yes some of that came vs Indiana and Illinois but UM also played Indiana... etc.
Your star RBs should flash - I cannot remember more than 1-2 runs all of last year that I felt a real excitement about our 2. But again, it was behind a disaster OL....BUT you'd think a star would find a crease somewhere in 5-6 out of 50 runs and break off a 18 yarder breaking 2 tackles.
He also had 3 carries for 36 yards against Arizona in a 38-31 win.