at least it's not just us?
- Member for
- 5 years 6 weeks
- You can cheer because this program, this team, and this school care more about being worth cheering for than whether or not you're cheering.
- Well said, Misopogon.
|2 weeks 2 days ago||Pretty high of a great many games||
Putting aside results:
1973: OSU 10 M 10
2013 OSU 42 M 41
2004 MSU 37 M 45 (3OT)
2005 M 34 MSU 31
1971 Nebraska 35 Oklahoma 31
1969 Texas 15 Arkansas 14
1986 M 24 OSU 21
1988 M 34 OSU 31
1997 OSU 14 M 20 (the wretched field conditions, of which M ought forever be ashamed, notwithstanding)
Other Ohio State games?
For sheer joy? 1969 and 1995. For cold satisfaction, 1976, closely followed by 1991.
1970 and 1972 weren't televised, as I recall, and I was at Army basic training for the '74 game. As for 2006, it just misses.
|6 weeks 3 days ago||You must be too young...||
to remember Toledo, 2008
|6 weeks 3 days ago||Ask Brady||
I hope someone has the nerve to ask Brady some tough questions about why these kids got embarrassed before everybody back home. And why his All-America and captain wasn't taught the discipline even to avoid the kind of penalty MSU had formerly been famous for and which is committed almost always out of selfishness.
|13 weeks 1 day ago||What gets flagged for holding on runs...||
Butt's block was superior until he reached around with his left arm and put it on the Akron's player's back. The kids need to get the message: when the zebras see the reach around hand on his back, out comes the flag, almost regardless of how it happened, not excluding the other guy spinning around to present his back. How to avoid it? Keep your elbows in tight and keep your hands off the other guy's back, no matter what. If I were coaching, I'd get a switch and whenever the elbows came out, whack! across the forearms. Holding penalties on running plays are drive killers.
|13 weeks 3 days ago||Fundamentals, fundamentals...||
Two or three plays before New 98's red zone fumble, a Toussaint run to the Akron 1 was wiped out by a holding penalty when Jake Butt inexcusably and lazily threw his left arm onto the back of the defender he had (actually, very nicely) driven into the middle of the field. Later Gallon was nicked for holding on what would have been another nice gain for Fitz. Holding penalties on running plays have driven me nuts since rule changes about use of hands allowed Jay Riemersma to specialize in it. What's so hard about keeping one's head up, elbows tucked inside, and feet beneath one's self and moving?
And just before the long pass setting up Akron's 3d TD, Akron's QB was able to scramble for a 1st down on 3d and 10 when Frank Clark thought going inside the tackle might free him for a sack instead of what actually happened, giving up outside contain.
OTOH, it might have been a useful wakeup call. A lot of these kids needed to find out they've been doing it wrong. I'd like to think Hoke and staff already knew it.
|2 years 1 week ago||Weak or balanced?||
I disagree. This is one of the strongest B1G conferences I have seen in 40 years, even if the top two aren't the 1973 Bucks and Blue (the two best Big Ten teams relative to the rest of the NCAA I ever saw: OSU on 1-1-74 killed a very good USC team and M was idle due to the Rose Bowl or nothing rule. As for this year's B1G, when did it last have this many good teams who spent nine weeks beating up each other? Michigan, Wisconsin, State, Penn State, Nebraska, Ohio (once it got back the suspended players), Northwestern, and Iowa are all very to pretty good teams. Michigan and Ohio are both teams which have improved continuously during the season. From top to bottom this B1G is better than it has been in a long time, even if there is no one (or two) dominant team(s).
Let's be glad M has a team to be proud of and this senior class can graduate with a good taste in its mouth. As for Schadenfreude, that is for meaner and pettier people than the M community I know.
|2 years 19 weeks ago||Why gild the lily?||
|2 years 28 weeks ago||Michigan bias is irrelevant||
Brandstatter's point is well made regardless of where he went to school and regardless of whether he is a fan. Ohio State has strayed from being a University which was proud of its student athletes and worked at making their experience great (the Woody days). Hell, Ohio State's faculty after the 1961 season voted not to permit the football team (a "national champion") go to the Rose Bowl. After the 1940 Michigan game, the fans in the Horseshoe gave Tom Harmon a standing ovation after he single-handedly destroyed the Buckeyes, a feat of sportsmanship seldom equalled by anyone. Those are things more to be proud of than a modern national championship fielding the likes of Clarett and Katzenmoyer.
Yes, Michigan had some guys who weren't perfect. Hell, they had some guys who committed felonies (after Michigan football). But it was never a part of the coaches' plan. Bo, Mo, and Lloyd preferred to lose rather than to shame the school.
This is a step toward leveling the playing field in the Big 10. Can the SEC be that far behind? One can only hope.
|2 years 48 weeks ago||thanks, but||
Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I really was looking for information because I am genuinely befuddled as to how the program sank so far so fast.
I think it very possible that the offense will be at least similar to what it was considering the number of players eligible to return. As for making progress, I think "objectively" a great deal of the statistics rung up were directly attributable to the remarkable individual talent of Denard Robinson, and, no, I don't expect he'll get worse. I also think that the offense had a lot of trouble scoring against better defenses (something hardly unique to Michigan's situation, true), even to the point of near ineffectiveness (Ohio State, Mississippi State), How was that problem on its way to solution?
What I am reading is that (1) young players will get better because growth and experience will make them so, and (2) injuries to defensive backs are largely to blame for the defensive problems of last year. What I was looking for was an analysis of what it was that RR was doing, as opposed to a general maturation process, that would lead to better things. Where did I miss it?
And, no, I didn't want him to fail, much less am "the most jaded RR hater." That would have been unfair to all those kids who deserved to have the best coaching they could get. My real question is whether they got that during the past three years, and, if not, why not?
Thanks again for your reply.
|2 years 48 weeks ago||Rethinking DB||
Dave Brandon has been on a pretty long honeymoon. Can anyone explain why? The timing of the firing and the announcement in January of a "nationwide coaching search" strike me as capricious as opposed to carefully planned, unless he decided months ago to can RR and hire anyone, and when Harbaugh was unavailable, to choose Hoke, and the rest was just theater.
I would also like to see a detailed explanation (not a set of conclusions) why RR was making progress and would have been a success soon. Really, I would.
|2 years 49 weeks ago||No brief for the Freep||
I didn't "defend" the Free Press. My argument is that no newspaper (or blog, for that matter) caused 3-9, 5-7, 7-6, multiple losses by embarrasing margins, a defense that probably demoralized the poor kids on the team, or Michigan fans preparing to watch their favorite team play with only the faintest hope that team might win. Even assuming Nemesis and Loki were mendacious, can one hope that the NCAA investigators separated wheat from chaff and relied on evidence other than what was printed on litter box liners?
As for quoting Nemesis, did you read the quote? Even the OP would likely not have written such a paean to St. Richard, Missionary and Martyr.
I envy you your acquaintance with Mr. Carr. Would you be good enough to share more of his thoughts?
|2 years 49 weeks ago||The fault lies not in our stars...||
The same Michael Rosenberg, who, when Rich Rodriguez was hired, wrote:
That was in December, 2007. This site's spam filter doesn't permit a link to the entire piece.
Don't blame the newspapers. Drew Sharp tried for years to get Lloyd Carr, or at least some of his assistants, canned. He wasn't alone. And Lloyd left on his own terms.
One man is responsible for the end of the Rich Rodriguez era at Michigan. Accept it. Who doesn't think that Brandon started his evaluation the moment he hired on as AD? And who really thinks Rodriguez made a strong case to stay on?
Now let us hope that Brandon handles the hiring better than he did the firing.
|3 years 1 week ago||Extension?||
Hmmm. DB won't say now that RR is going to be the coach in 2011 but is also contemplating an extension of his current contract, which has three years to run if M wants it to run that long?
|3 years 1 week ago||Probably the right answer||
I agree that this analysis is the most likely scenario. If Brandon had decided to keep RR he probably would have announced it because (1) it would be better for recruiting than uncertainty, (2) it would show him to be a decisive CEO type (Brandon is clearly possessed of a non-zero vanity), (3) it would keep the assistants focused on the task at hand instead of scrambling for their next jobs, (4) there is more than a non-zero chance RR can be successful, notwithstanding his disappointing (other words also come to mind) showing to date, and (5) it would give him and his talent scouts a full year to find another Tressel in the small schools (something Martin should have begun doing in 2005, despite LC's hope that one of his assistants would succeed him). But DB knows a lot of alumni are very unhappy and he is a little concerned that one more year might do lasting damage to what he so felicitously calls "the brand," so if he can get a definite crowd pleaser like Harbaugh, he leaves it open. Thus, RR's job is hanging by a thread, but the DB won't cut that thread without someone to replace him. DB is Lincoln to RR's McClellan.
Some people think DB is actually using the time to reflect and to think. I am not one of them. He is likely either using the time to find out if he can get the sexy choice in January or he is unwilling not to fire RR if the Gator Bowl is another embarrassment. As for the second, I don't buy that, because if Penn State, Wisconsin and Ohio State weren't embarrassment enough, a debacle at the Gator Bowl won't be either.
If DB hasn't yet decided on a course of action, even this waffling one, he's not the right man for the job.
|3 years 1 week ago||How about...||
a comparison to Gerry Faust? Terrifically successful where he was before arriving at Notre Dame, incredibly enthusiastic about having arrived at Notre Dame, and perhaps the most gentlemanly major college football coach ever to live. Take a look at Under the Tarnished Dome. Once, after someone, I don't recall who, unmercifully ran up the score on an outmanned Notre Dame team, he headed across the field to shake hands with that other coach. When asked why he would do that, his reply was something like, "that's the time you most need to do it." Gerry is quoted as having said, "I had only 26 miserable days at Notre Dame; that's when we lost. Other than that, I was the happiest guy in the world. I loved walking on the campus, loved being there, loved being a part of Notre Dame." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerry_Faust . He was replaced by Lou Holtz, a very different sort.
My point is that however wonderful Coach Rodriguez is as far as wanting to be a "Michigan Man" or visiting the sick and comforting the afflicted, it is separate from his technical ability to help football players succeed during games. And I have yet to see any negative comment, even from the likes of Sharp and Valenti, about his support of the Mealer family or visting hospitalized children.
As far as Bo insisting on being supportive of the program when troubles happened, his actions showed he wasn't stubbornly insistent on a single style of play or staying the same no matter what. The man won with QBs as disparate as Tom Slade, Denny Franklin, John Wangler, and Michael Taylor. When he arrived at Michigan he said there would be changes made, true. Many of those were to facilities like nails instead of lockers for the coaches. And in his first three years, his overall record was 28-5, 20-2 in the conference, and a defense which gave up 321 points in three years.
So, does RR remind me of Bo, or what? What.
|3 years 1 week ago||Treacle = Euphemism||
"On a BBC radio program in the late 1940s, philosopher Bertrand Russell playfully conjugated an "irregular verb" as "I am firm; you are obstinate; he is a pig-headed fool" (citation below)
More examples may be found at http://grammar.about.com/b/2009/10/21/im-firm-youre-obstinate-2.htm and http://forum.ship-of-fools.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=70;t=012294. Doubtless more are readily found.
As for the Kipling, it is less treacle and more akin, albeit more masculine and literary, to the use of Cinderella Man and It's Great to be a Michigan Wolverine, than to Groban ballads to help unite and motivate young athletes.
Thus, If is inspiring; Cinderella Man is ( a wee bit) treacly; You Raise Me Up is maudlin.
Monday, 12-06 The Detroit News reported:
Demonstrating he either received effective instructions or he is a fast learner. If he does stay, let us hope it is the latter.
|3 years 2 weeks ago||You're welcome||
Thank you for the compliment.
|3 years 2 weeks ago||Did it go something like this?||
"It's my great honor and privilege to be here tonight with members of the great 1985 team and with tonight's honorees and a great senior class.
"The 1985 team had a great year, ending with a 10-1-1 record and a number 2 ranking, notwithstanding that they weren't ranked in the preseason top 20. I'm proud to be here and humbled to know I share something with such a great group of Michigan men. Here, too, are Coaches Moeller and Hanlon, and let me tell you, they are tough acts to follow.
"Everyone knows about Denard Robinson's great play this year, and he was great and I am expecting he will get even better. He truly deserves to have won the Bo Schembechler Award. Steve Schilling is the first three time winner of the Hugh Rader award, which he and Dave Molk, who came back from a tough injury, share for the 2010 season. Jonas Mouton and Mike Martin are deserving winners of the Roger Zatkoff and Dick Hatcher defensive awards. Mark Moundros, one of our co-captains, won the Robert P. Ufer Award for being the player most like the late, great Bob Ufer in his enthusiasm and love for our great University.
"We're also all proud of Zac Ciullo, who is this year's recipient of the Dr. Arthur Robinson Award for scholarship. Zac will be at Michigan's Law School next year. While Zac didn't play as much as some others, he is a valuable member of our team and it has been my great privilege to have worked with such a fine young man.
"These young men are especially distinguished because every young man in the program is special, and for anyone to stand out from such a great group takes quite some doing.
"I wish there was time to name all of the great seniors who made this year special for me and the staff, and who provided invaluable leadership to the younger men on the team. Every one of them deserves praise for the success we have enjoyed this year. I know they wanted, and deserved, even more success, but any shortcomings are my fault, and not theirs. All of them have inspired me and the staff to work harder so they may enjoy even more success in the future, and so they may share in the joy of seeing the next generation of Michigan men do well on the field. And trust me, the hard work all these young Michigan men have done will earn them success, both on the football field and in life.
"Tonight is about all of the young men on our team and in our program, each and every one of them, whether he's an All American, a starter, a member of our scout team, or a student manager. Because they all work so hard and all of them are essential to any success the team has. Let's have a big round of applause for all of those fine young men.
"And tonight is also about honoring the past. Specifically we honor a great team of 25 seasons ago. But we also honor the traditions and the love everyone in the Michigan community has for a great University and great teams, and great people. I am blessed to have been accepted into that community, and I pledge to do my best to be worthy of that honor.
"And, so, to celebrate a great group of seniors and the great 1985 team, let's all rise and join in singing The Victors ! "
|3 years 2 weeks ago||Michaelangelo undid years of work on the Sistine...||
The genius Buonarotti's Sistine Chapel ceiling is one of the great art works in human history. While in progress his patron chafed and was impatient. We, centuries after, regard it with wonder and awe. It took a long time and was little to look at until it was finished.
So far RR's work reminds me of that ceiling when all Michaelangelo had finished was the plaster prep for the frescoe to come. But there is less assurance that what is to come will be reminiscent of Michaelangelo's realized vision.
I recommend to the readers:
As for "Tresselball," Jim Tressel is one of the great coaches in NCAA history. He is almost what Bo would have been had Bo had first call on Ohio's talent.
|3 years 3 weeks ago||Indisputable?||
Yes and no. Jim Mandich and Tom Curtis were returning all conference lettermen. But many of the 1968 starters graduated. Dierdorf was not a 5 star recruit (neither MSU nor OSU offered him a scholarship). Reggie McKenzie was not highly regarded as a freshman. Don Moorehead, Henry Hill, Barry Pierson, Marty Huff, Dick Caldarazzo, Garvie Craw, etc. were not future NFL players. Bo and his staff had a lot to do with making them good football players.
Yes, and the same smart alecks who wrote that had previously written of Oklahoma and the Seven Dwarves. The Purdue teams with Mike Phipps, Gary Danielson, and Mark Herrmann were dangerous opponents. So were many of MSU's teams (Muddy Waters and John L. were far in the future). Hayden Fry had some very tough Iowa teams. Tony Dungy was a very good player at Minnesota in the early 70s. Michigan and Ohio State were at the top, true, but they had to work hard to stay there. And there were some serious non-conference foes in those days. Texas A&M was well regarded, and Bo's boys beat the Curtis Dickey-George Woodard-Tony Franklin team 41-3.
We didn't win a national championship because of some of those things. Bo's teams finished in the top 10 16 of 21 years, including ten in a row (1969-1978), with a #2, two #3, two #4, one #5, and two #6 finishes. I call that being in contention for a NC.
Granted, 5-12 is not a good winning percentage. And I won't argue with those who say that there are no good losses. But of those 12 losses, none were by more than 8 points. Eight were to teams in the top 5, three of them teams which won or shared that season's NC. Twice the losses were the consequence of first half crippling injuries to Michigan's QBs (Lawrence Taylor took out John Wangler's knee in the '79 Gator Bowl; Steve Smith was hurt early in the 1983 Rose Bowl). In Bo's first bowl game he himself was in the hospital, and the team played with a marked air of depression and sadness, and even then gave up only 10 points to a #3 USC team chock full of eventual NFL talent.
"Abysmal" is a word for the debacle versus Tennessee (17-45), the Horror, the 2007 Oregon game, and too many games in the most recent three seasons. The last three seasons are the only ones in the last 40 in which a Michigan team has been regarded before and during any given game as having zero chance to win. Tressel is 5-1 against Lloyd, but all of the games (except perhaps the '07 game, where it was obvious Michigan had no offense), were games, not exhibitions where OSU was so dominant it appeared it could name the final score whenever it chose to do so. It has reached the point where Ohio State fans don't get excited about the game.
What's going to affect recruiting is being an embarrassment game after game. However much Michigan's fanbase and alumni love Michigan and its traditions, a teenager in Ohio or the South won't value it any more than the average reader of this blog values the merits of reading Homer in the original Greek. And those same teenagers aren't going to be impressed by a lack of criticism on message boards or local newspapers. If RR keeps losing, it's going to get harder, not easier, to get athletes to come to a place they'll regard as cold, gloomy, and far from home.
|3 years 4 weeks ago||Where's Jerry Jones?||
Why is it a good thing that the AD is on the sideline two quarters of a football game? It reminds one of Jerry Jones and Dan Snyder, neither of whom has enjoyed much resent success.
|3 years 4 weeks ago||Whither Barwis?||
The roster lists 8 DL (not counting John Ferrara), 6 LBs who have been in the program since Fall, 2008 or before. Rogers and Kovacs, too, have been in the program at least that long. Barwis was touted as a miracle worker. What happened? Can someone explain?
Wojo makes the point that once Michigan was the team that was physically dominant. And they were. But they aren't now. They hadn't been in some past years. Some contributors to this blog blamed Carr and Gittelson for that, and Barwis was supposed to be the solution.
|3 years 4 weeks ago||Merci Bon Voyage!||
I hope their rewards include joining in a rousing chorus or two of The Victors after today's game, next week's game, and their final game.
We all should wish a happy lifetime for each and every one of these doughty young men.
And a Freep commenter offered this, which rates repeating here:
I'm a Michigan fan, but because I know this forum (and the MSU ones) have been inundated with aggressive posts both ways from opposing fans, I'm going to say that I wish every senior the best of luck in his final home game, no matter who he plays for. Playing the final game on your home field is something you rememebr the rest of your life, and I wish every player representing our state the best final home-game memory they can possibly have. Get a hit you'll remember, boys!
Per the hated Freep, here is a longer list of M Seniors:
DT Greg Banks
TE Jon Bills
OL Zac Ciullo
WR Patrick Collins
OL Perry Dorrestein
LB Obi Ezeh
OL John Ferrara
LB Rasheed Furrha
LB Kevin Leach
LB Mark Moundros
LB Jonas Mouton
NT Adam Patterson
S Jordan Reilly
WR Doug Rogan
CB James Rogers
DT Renaldo Sagesse
OL Stephen Schilling
K Scott Schrimscher
S Karl Tech
DT Dominique Ware
TE Martell Webb
|3 years 4 weeks ago||You can call a cat a fish...||
There is no such thing as a "Rivalry of the 2000s." Fomer Supreme Court Justice and Nuremberg Prosecutor Robert Jackson, while Attorney General said in 1940 :
“The qualities of a good prosecutor are as elusive and as impossible to define as those which mark a gentleman. And those who need to be told would not understand it anyway."
As with a rivalry.
|3 years 4 weeks ago||They were actually pretty good||
In 1985 rankings went only 20 deep. That Illinois team had Jack Trudeau for a QB, had a regular season of 6-4-1 (with losses to USC and #10 Nebraska), and a bowl loss to Army. The week after the tie with Michigan, Iowa beat them 59-0. In those days, many teams fared poorly in the weeks after Bo's and Mo's boys beat the tar out of them.
|3 years 4 weeks ago||Thanks for this one||
That 1985 team was something special. Note where the AP had them ranked as the season went on (the 1984 season after the loss of Jim Harbaugh had a very tough second half). And very few of them went to the NFL. Shows what coaching and attitude can do. The mars on the record were a 10-12 loss (4 FG) to Chuck Long at Iowa and a 3-3 tie at Champaign.
Some of the other heroes: Assistant coaches: Alex Agase, Tirrel Burton, Lloyd Carr, Jerry Hanlon, Jerry Meter, Gary Moeller, Bob Thornbladh, Elliot Uzelac, Milan Vooletich
|3 years 5 weeks ago||Tackling||
Nice post. Too many kids got away with bad form in high school against inferior athletes. Too many of them also like to do what they feel are highlight reel moves. Good tackling requires contact with the chest or shoulders and driving with the legs. Too many kids leave their feet, either to "launch" themselves or drop to their knees in an effort to get low and get leverage. Too many times coaches assume the kids can tackle. And in 2007 Lloyd assumed Mallet could take a snap from under center. And in the Indiana game, RR assumed Denard could take a snap from under center.
But with low scholarship limits, it is hard to get practice hitting, and it is very hard to find out who the tacklers are when there is no hitting.
|3 years 9 weeks ago||It was Roh||
I don't think he would have made it before the pass was thrown, but he definitely came to a dead stop with nothing but grass between him and Cousins.
|3 years 25 weeks ago||It was Lawrence Reid||
Yes, I remember, too. It was Lawrence Reid (not Reed), and he didn't just lateral, he flung it (underhand/sidearm) out of bounds, demonstrating the value of the quality coaching once to be found in Ann Arbor.
My iconic moment is Billy Taylor rumbling down the left sideline, November 22, 1969, closely followed by Barry Pierson's punt return the same day.
|4 years 5 days ago||And you think Majors didn't get a fair shake?||
In 1956 there was another candidate, too. A fellow named Brown, who was a senior at a school in upstate New York called Syracuse. And Johnny Majors was the guy who was robbed?
The ND SID bragged about this one. The yokels who went by regions beat up each other (McDonald and Tubbs from OU and Majors from Tenn), and Hornung won after the other candidates' voters tore each other up. As for the best player, the Syracuse halfback who went on to a pretty good NFL career, there was no Heisman voter in Tennessee or any other SEC town in 1956 who would have voted for an African-American.
Maybe they deserve to keep losing until that debt is paid in full.
And another ND QB, John Huarte (no, there is no other reason to remember this guy) won in 1964, beating out such second-raters as Gale Sayers, Dick Butkus, Fred Biletnikoff, Floyd Little, and Tommy Nobis, among others. Of course, that year M was a Rose Bowl winner, with such players as Bill Yearby, Tom Mack, Bob Timberlake, and Jack Clancy, and more.