Would you give up a M win to change the results of a M loss? Or other's win?
Whatsthesnapcount brought up an interesting idea in the "Games you wish you were at thread" that at first I thought was crazy, but after awhile I was still going....hmmmmm...
Would you give up a Michigan win you experienced (not one 50 years before you were born), to prevent a Michigan loss another time? Would you give up a win in 97 to prevent the Horror? Or a lesser game like WTSC picked, PSU 05? (Still a tremendous game). Would you trade a couple of wins vs. Some other teams for 1 vs. OSU?
And how about affecting other teams? Back when OSU was going to play for the National Championship vs. Miami, we asked each other if we would give up a win in our game if it meant OSU would lose too. We beat Auburn, and OSU won the title. And in the aftermath, with all the "Buckeye Glory" talk, we weren't so sure it was as good of a trade. Would you give up a Citrus Bowl win to have the OSU title drought continue (even more painful now that they've lost twice more). How about Lloyd's last bowl win...trade it for him to beat OSU that year?
And if you throw in other sports...what would it have been worth for Webber to not call time out, and pull off a win? (And before you start, the NCAA NEVER comes down with the hammer on teams that WIN it all, so you can bet the records wouldn't be vacated if that was the case).
So, is the idea crazy? Is every win to valuable to sacrifice it in a "what if"? Or can you think of a "fair trade"?
(Giving up a win in a 3-9 season to beat OSU in 06 is NOT fair...)
February 20th, 2010 at 4:25 PM ^
so long.
How about we trade in the entire 2008 season for a win over OSU this year?
February 20th, 2010 at 4:29 PM ^
MGoBlog for a month if it meant that when I came back I wouldn't be over exposed to silly posts and grammatical miscues.
February 20th, 2010 at 7:13 PM ^
If it meant I wouldn't have to read about people complaining they HAVE to read posts that don't interest them.
But it's late February, let's talk some real football - anyone want to posit a guess how many wins Rich needs to keep his job? Yeah, I didn't think so...
If none of it interests you, nobody's stopping you from taking off till September, or whenever there IS some breaking news, or event. Spring ball isn't that far away...
P.S. "overexposed" is one word. Just saying, glass houses and all...
February 20th, 2010 at 8:10 PM ^
responses, don't get bent when you don't get the responses you were hoping for.
I'm certainly not a grammatical wizard as you so generously pointed out and honestly, I usually leave typos and errors well enough alone. However, if you are going to start a topic about make believe, at least proof your topic line.
Just saying........
February 20th, 2010 at 8:24 PM ^
But...can't...stop...yourself....from coming back...
I wasn't begging for any particular kind of response. Not begging at all actually. I can get response just fine without it. Because I try and post things that are interesting to other posters, and not just to be a dick. You should try it sometime.
I don't have a problem with your grammatical anything, any more than I have a problem not completely spelling out a subject line so it doesn't take up half the page (longish already). Just in a post you are going to knock it... I do have a problem with people who feel the need just complain just to hear themselves speak, or rain on someone else's parade. Some people like the topic. They posted. Some didn't. They moved on without feeling the need to tell everyone about it.
The subject line is there to see if the topic interests you. I see a number that don't interest me a lick. I don't go in them. You should try to exert your freedom to make that decision as much as you do your freedom of speech. Or if there's some pressing topic you'd rather be discussing, you know, post it. Contribute something more than your whining.
February 20th, 2010 at 9:05 PM ^
I love the, "If you don't like it, don't look at it" argument. The problem is that you put it up there for any and all comments. It's like nails on a chalkboard. Sure, I could ignore it, but I'm not going to.
Secondly, when deciding between "An" or "A" it has to do with how the letter (or word) is pronounced. My response had nothing to do with your length of the subject line but, since you brought it up, you could have typed "An University of Michigan" and it would have been equally annoying.
February 20th, 2010 at 9:19 PM ^
Any more than I can stop you from being a dick. Only you can stop those things.
But you can work on your metaphors. A screeching chalkboard in a room you HAVE to hear, and thus comment on. Reading a post who's topic doesn't interest you...that is a choice you make yourself. You're scratching your own chalkboard. Masochistic, much?
The length point is the point, because the "M" obviously refers to Michigan, not the letter, and I'm sure you didn't want to see "An Michigan" either. But it's just the utter stupidity of working yourself up over slang fragments made to have a post subject of semi-reasonable length, particularly when you confess it's not even your strong suit. Stop being so bitter...you may be lead a happier existence. Or at least those around you will.
February 20th, 2010 at 4:34 PM ^
I would give up any Mich Women's BB victory to replace any football loss.
February 20th, 2010 at 4:38 PM ^
A friend and I had a similar discussion of the value of wins of different teams and what we would trade. We came to the conclusion that we'd trade a football win for NC's in both Women's soccer and field hockey in the same year.
February 20th, 2010 at 9:27 PM ^
for a three-peat in women's soccer, field hockey, and volleyball. I can just imagine walking around in Ohio here and after getting heckled about UM coming back with, "Oh yeah?? Well our women's field hockey team OWNED yours!"
THAT would show them!
February 20th, 2010 at 4:37 PM ^
I would give up any win from '08 for one more win in '09
February 20th, 2010 at 4:43 PM ^
Yep, I originally said: I'd trade the 05 Penn State win for a win against App.
Trading "Henne to Manningham!!!" for "and the kick is good"
I'd trade a huge win for a SINGLE PLAY too: I would trade the 2008 Wisconsin win *just for Roy Roundtree not to have been tackled at the 1 yard line this year in Urbana* (the Illinois loss). I love Roy Squarebush but that single play and the subsequent inability to score a TD from 1 yard out on 4 tries was the tipping point in that game and the start of the downward spiral of the season. (Not the losses to Iowa or MSU, in my opinion)
February 20th, 2010 at 4:57 PM ^
One play doesn't make a 25 point swing or even an 18 point swing if you want to look at it that way.
February 20th, 2010 at 5:07 PM ^
I would trade the 2008 Wisconsin win *just for Roy Roundtree not to have been tackled at the 1 yard line this year in Urbana*
The fates could offer you a Forcier interception on that play instead.
Seriously, I don't understand why blame is always assigned to Roundtree. The guy made a clutch 3rd-down catch and ended up taking it 76 yards. He got us a first-and-goal at the one. It's not his fault we failed to cash in.
February 20th, 2010 at 10:48 PM ^
I'm not blaming him for anything.
I said I'd trade that play away, within this world of make believe.
February 20th, 2010 at 5:57 PM ^
2-10 looks a lot worse than 3-9.
Just look at it. I know it is a small difference, but double-digit losses... yack.
February 20th, 2010 at 4:46 PM ^
'05 Penn State and a game to be named later for a win in the '06 Ohio State game.
February 20th, 2010 at 4:52 PM ^
I would also throw in the 2008 Capital One Bowl and all my mgopoints. I would probably make the same deal for a win over OSU in 2007 (Horror redeemed with outright Big 10 title). Willing to swap UF win for a butt kicking in the Rose Bowl if it meant sending out Henne, Hart, Long, etc. with a win over OSU and a conference title.
February 20th, 2010 at 4:55 PM ^
that 2008 Cap One Bowl has GOT to be worth at least 2 games!
Too bad mgopoints don't count in the BCS...or..anything else in the real [football] world.
February 20th, 2010 at 9:06 PM ^
You have 17 points. You can't buy a womens rowing win with 17 mgopoints.
February 20th, 2010 at 9:08 PM ^
PurpleStuff you and I are going to the football Gods to broker a deal so that we win in '06.
February 20th, 2010 at 9:12 PM ^
The looks on the faces of the Buckeye fans I had to sit next to at the game are going to be absolutely priceless when we kick their ass. Time travel, son!
February 20th, 2010 at 9:21 PM ^
You own a hot tub?
February 20th, 2010 at 9:24 PM ^
But I do wish I owned a hot tub
February 20th, 2010 at 9:32 PM ^
Between the basketball game and the Olympics, I've seen that "Hot Tub Time Machine" movie commercial like a hundred times today. I thought everyone had been subjected to it...
February 20th, 2010 at 9:38 PM ^
I definitely need to start watching more TV
February 21st, 2010 at 2:48 PM ^
And Jon Cusack needs a new agent...
http://hottubtimemachinemovie.com/
February 20th, 2010 at 9:59 PM ^
Blog high five!
February 20th, 2010 at 4:53 PM ^
I think the happiness of the one was nowhere nearing the crushingness of the other.
February 20th, 2010 at 4:53 PM ^
"(And before you start, the NCAA NEVER comes down with the hammer on teams that WIN it all, so you can bet the records wouldn't be vacated if that was the case)."
Really?
Do you really think if we won the bball NC that they would not have vacated that? A part of me is glad we didn't win that game to save us the embarrassment of having to vacate a NC.
(I'm a late bloomer btw, wasn't a UM fan back then, it's taken me some time to catch up)
February 20th, 2010 at 7:27 PM ^
But they've never had a major National Champion vacate the title in the modern era. I'm not saying we wouldn't have gotten sanctions - just that we wouldn't have offered up the wins, and the NCAA wouldn't have asked for them. And maybe not even that...UNLV basketball, OSU football's title year, Miami all those years, etc, etc. There never seems to be a real interest by the NCAA to seriously investigate their shady champs. Only their bad cheaters. It'll be interesting to see how much really happens to USC. But you can bet it won't involve losing any titles (or title, since one was AP).
February 20th, 2010 at 8:29 PM ^
It seems hard to imagine that the NCAA could pull off this kind of selective enforcement, but the premise (that they haven't busted a national champion) seems to be right on. It seems like they've gotten a break a number of times where teams that were big offenders came up just short only to be busted later by the NCAA. The Fab Five had a couple of shots but came up short. Memphis had the title sewn up a couple years ago only to gag it away to Kansas and then vacate every win from that season. Even if SC is forced to vacate wins, they would presumably all be from Bush's junior year (the season they lost to UT in the Rose Bowl) rather than either of the national title seasons.
I don't know if they would not have looked as hard at these cases if the teams had won it all, but it does seem like they've conveniently missed hitting teams for championship seasons (UNLV and Miami also come to mind) only to hammer them shortly thereafter. History also tends to soften the view we take of successful programs (nobody talks about UCLA's basketball dynasty being bankrolled by Sam Gilbert). The only championship team I can think of getting really hammered may have been Lake Superior State in hockey, but I'm still not sure if they vacated a national title or not.
February 20th, 2010 at 4:57 PM ^
Every win in 2005 (except against state) for winning against O$U in 2006
February 20th, 2010 at 5:02 PM ^
Actually, we beat Florida after the 2002 season (making Lloyd 2-0 against the Gators). The win over Auburn was two years earlier.
February 20th, 2010 at 6:45 PM ^
You are correct sir. Auburn was Henson and Thomas. That year was Navarre outplaying the future Bears QB.
February 20th, 2010 at 5:07 PM ^
In 1926, Michigan defeated Oklahoma A&M 42-3 in their season opener. I would trade that win for a win in last year's Ohio State game.
February 20th, 2010 at 5:16 PM ^
You didn't read the ruuuules man. People with 9000 Mgopoints just do whatever they want...
Can we start the basketball game open thread already?
February 20th, 2010 at 6:15 PM ^
As a mea culpa, I have initiated the open thread. Forgiveness please.February 20th, 2010 at 5:19 PM ^
I wouldn't trade PSU '05 for App State myself. Personal thing though, since I'm from PSU country. When I go home the PSU fans still whine and cry about that "1 second" thing, which is just sweet, sweet, music to my ears.
I'd trade the Wisconsin win from 2008 (when Wisky was ranked) for a 2009 win. I'd also trade our ND win from this year for a win over tOSU this year. I'd also trade my soul to still have Cooper as the HC of tOSU. Ahhh the Cooper era was a good era.
February 20th, 2010 at 7:17 PM ^
I was thinking that I wouldn't give up a really important win, certainly not a 97 season one, but to cancel the Horror, or break up the OSU streak - giving up a PSU or Wiscy win would be a good trade.
Then I saw the clip about the U-M b-ball championship. Would I give that up? If we lose the final game, and Steve Fisher is not hired permanently, and U-M b-ball doesn't go through the dark ages (presuming the next coach is vigilant and protects the program) - well, maybe I would give up that win.
February 20th, 2010 at 7:31 PM ^
I wonder who the he'll Bo would have hired if it was wide open. There was talk of his buddy Bobby Knight, but that was never going to happen. I wonder who would have been a candidate...
February 20th, 2010 at 7:52 PM ^
Blaming Fisher for the collapse of the program is letting Ellerbe off the hook. Blame Ellerbe. Fisher got us on probation (for which he was deservedly fired), but we could have weathered it with a better coach succeeding him. Instead we hired a man that Loyola of Maryland deemed unfit to be a head coach. Actually, I suppose we should blame Goss for inexplicably handing the reins over to Ellerbe (who wasn't about to say no).
The real basketball "what-if" IMO is centered on Fisher's replacement. The NCAA report came out in the summer, but Goss for some reason waited until October to fire Fisher (essentially ensuring that no outside coach could take the job). Then he passed over two assistants who had paid their dues (Dutcher and Trost) in favor of the newly-hired #3 assistant, Ellerbe.
February 20th, 2010 at 7:57 PM ^
Hmm, that WAS the true decline. And a Big Ten Tournament title should NOT be as much of a motivation for hiring a coach. Goss was a goof. Though I don't know that he could have hired one of the assistants closely associated with Fisher, and I wonder how good a class of candidates there would have been with the threat of impending sanctions. But anyone would have to have been better than Ellerbe.
February 20th, 2010 at 8:00 PM ^
You have a point, but how does it fit in the context of this thread? Finals win - Fisher got the job. Finals loss - I'm proposing he doesn't get it, so the course of U-M b-ball is changed at that time (and for the better, long-term).
February 20th, 2010 at 8:07 PM ^
Big Ten Tourney...or first round NCAA loss, Ellerbe doesn't get the job...?
February 20th, 2010 at 8:25 PM ^
I'd give up any game in the 1997-98 season (heck, I'd give up the entire season) for a better coach than Ellerbe. (And I do think it was possible to land a decent coach. Twice in the last 15 years, OSU has fired a coach that got them on probation, and they've hired quality replacements both times.)
I guess I'd go with the first round of the BTT, since without that one there is no semi or final win, either.
February 20th, 2010 at 8:34 PM ^
Would WE have, though? It could be argued, depending on if the next couple of years don't turn things around, we haven't really gone out and hired a good coach in the two major sports since Bo. Mo was ready and waiting. Lloyd was put in place after Mo's problems. Frieder came from Orr leaving, Fisher the next step. Even then we were really out of practice. And it showed when Martin kinda fell into getting Rich Rod. Not some great master plan...just the WVU management being stupid at the right time.
And would we really have trusted Goss with a search? As I said, yes, it would have been hard for him to do worse...but to count on him doing a lot better....eh....
February 20th, 2010 at 9:18 PM ^
Well, the most logical thing to do would have been to make Brian Dutcher the interim guy for 1997-98 and go from there. He may have been close to Fisher but he was never cited in the NCAA report. Ellerbe was the worst of all worlds: he got the job just because he happened to be on the staff, but he hadn't been on the staff long enough to establish any recruiting ties (or, you know, demonstrate that he had any coaching ability).
February 20th, 2010 at 8:30 PM ^
if we could have traded one of the wins for a win in 2006 against OSU in Columbus. Wow it would been great to finish the regular season undefeated and made it into our first BCS national championship game. I bet we would have played better than OSU!!!!
February 21st, 2010 at 1:22 PM ^
I wouldn't have traded the PSU win in '05 for a win against App. State. The reason being is because the Oregon loss was just as devastating, and even if we beat App. State, Oregon's thrashing would've made the '07 season suck anyway. Also, it's big wins like '05 PSU that make App. State beating a storied program like Michigan such a Horror.