Who will the 2016 linebackers be?
After today's game, a lot of people have been commenting that our linebackers were too slow, couldn't tackle, and couldn't keep pace/do anything against the physical Ohio State defensive front. We have a bunch of senior Hoke guys that graduate. Who is going to replace them, and are they going to be any better?
November 28th, 2015 at 8:39 PM ^
That's what we said about the OL going into 2013, and boy were we wrong. Just wishing things to be automatically better in the next season does not make it so.
And Morgan, while not an All-American or anything, was a plus player. Right now we're looking at playing guys who could not push Bolden off of the field this season. And that's a real worry for me.
November 28th, 2015 at 8:59 PM ^
agreed.
And it's not exactly clear that our 2-LB + Peppers/other-DB was totally a "scheme" thing, OR, we simply didn't have the personnel to run with 3 "true" LBs
The only upside is that they'll have 9+ months to prepare 2-3 or so Linebackers (Gedeon should be much improved with reps, he's a physical freak)
November 28th, 2015 at 10:05 PM ^
The LB's struggled against OSU and IU, and maybe weren't the greatest against Minny and Utah. However, they were pretty good the rest of the year - Morgan maybe more so than Bolden. We good be looking at an LB group that struggles against most teams, not just those with running QB's.
Hopefully the dline will be an even more dominant unit next year to cover up what deficiencies there might be at LB.
November 28th, 2015 at 10:11 PM ^
But I agree with this 100%. Capital "W", Worried about next years LB's.
November 28th, 2015 at 8:43 PM ^
November 28th, 2015 at 8:35 PM ^
Move Winovich back to LB.
November 28th, 2015 at 8:35 PM ^
November 28th, 2015 at 8:37 PM ^
November 28th, 2015 at 8:49 PM ^
Shelton Johnson was projecting as a SDE even at the 225 lbs he came out of HS.
Reuben Jones was projected as the Buck. With Marshall ahead of him.
The hope will be Marshall gets his head out of his a## this offseason and starts doing what the coaches want rather than sit in the doghouse and lose a year of development on the field.
It seems like Charlton will be out there as a "non Buck" DE and then Marshall or Jones if they can develop to a point Durkin (or whomever DC is) trusts them would fill that role. That's reallyt the only option unless they pack on 15 lbs on Furbush I guess and make him a Buck.
Worst case scenario you plug Taco there and lose the ideal defense Durkin wants with a real buck and just have a traditional DE on both sides of the line. Upside is someone sees the light or develops out of Marshall or Jones (or a position switch of a current LB I guess)
November 28th, 2015 at 8:50 PM ^
November 28th, 2015 at 8:53 PM ^
They're pursuing one. There's almost zero chance that he gets it.
November 28th, 2015 at 8:55 PM ^
Except for the played to many games part.
November 28th, 2015 at 9:00 PM ^
November 29th, 2015 at 10:27 AM ^
November 28th, 2015 at 8:38 PM ^
November 28th, 2015 at 9:24 PM ^
True, a great middle linebacker on defense is like a great QB on offense.
I admit I took it for granted when we had Jake Ryan.
November 28th, 2015 at 9:42 PM ^
we took Kenny Demens for granted.
November 28th, 2015 at 11:31 PM ^
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November 28th, 2015 at 8:38 PM ^
November 28th, 2015 at 8:47 PM ^
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November 28th, 2015 at 9:28 PM ^
If only his mom had triplets. 1 Running Back, 1 Linebacker, 1 Hybrid Space Destroyer.
November 28th, 2015 at 8:38 PM ^
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November 28th, 2015 at 8:40 PM ^
failing that, we might want to try some guys that have lateral speed and, say, a sub 4.9 40. just saying.
November 28th, 2015 at 8:42 PM ^
I am preparing for 7 months of pie in the sky talk of awesome sideline to sideline grad transfers.
When in reality a grad transfer LB is someone who was not even in the top 4 on his own team ala McCray type. (top 3 guys will start, 4th guy is your primary backup and usually a 5th guy will likewise stick around)
So we are going to be scouring the wires for other teams 5th or 6th best LBs. I would assume guys like Furbush or Winovich can be that level at least. But who knows.
As for Gedeon, he is like the backup QB right now - a very popular player. Because he doesnt play much. Meanwhile the staff sees him each and every day, has a daily ranking of players, and continously thinks more of Bolden than him. This is not a staff that puts players ahead due to being seniors. So Gedeon has some serious development to do himself.
You hope McCray comes back and can at least be a plugger type, Gedeon an outside guy and maybe get pushed by a Wangler, Winovich or Furbush. We played a lot of 2 LB the past 2 years and I see that again next year until reinforcements step in.
I just can't imagine a class of Wangler, Furbush, Winovich and Ferns all being busts. (Yes Ferns left I realize that) That would be 0 for 4 in 1 class.
Landing a Jaylon Smith type as a freshman would help to at least push other players and maybe start having an impact in 2nd half of 2016.
November 28th, 2015 at 8:44 PM ^
This is dead on.
And I think you might be on to something, with perhaps our best hope being a great recruit that can start right away.
The upside is that the staff can legitimately promise a good shot at playing time. I'm surprised we're not in on more top LBs.
November 28th, 2015 at 9:19 PM ^
With the gentle early end of the schedule perhaps a freshman or two could develop on the field enough to be formidable by late October.
/anit-jinx about early part of the schedule employed
November 28th, 2015 at 8:50 PM ^
I agree with the Smith comment. For a team losing so much at the linebacker position you would think that a 5 star recruit would be ready to enroll in January at a minimum. The amount of open playing time for stud linebackers on the 2016 will be staggering.
November 28th, 2015 at 8:56 PM ^
Also how about Victor Viramontes at LB next year as well?
November 28th, 2015 at 9:47 PM ^
Keep dreaming. That would be a project as he barely plays defense this yr in hs.
November 28th, 2015 at 10:15 PM ^
If it's a freshman, they will need to be a man beast football savant. That's what we need.
Shit.
November 28th, 2015 at 9:00 PM ^
Alum96, you've done a write-up on the next class. My casual reading of it suggests that Michigan isn't even in on any particularly great LBs for this year. Honestly, given the situation we're in right now, that seems like a mistake. Is there anyone that Michigan has a shot at that could be legit starting material if they get on campus? Can you give us a rundown on the position?
November 28th, 2015 at 9:06 PM ^
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November 28th, 2015 at 9:20 PM ^
It's not like they are not trying. For whatever reason the very top end LBs have not been interested (top 100 types). Caleb Kelly is the only one in top 100 and he seems OU bound.
We are now plumming 100-300 types which are Jackson (100s) and Bush Jr. (200s)t
The guys left on the board at LB with 247 rank are
- Kelly (23)
- Jackson (119)
- Bush (230)
- Jones (415)
I suspect Jones is being slowballed to see if we can get Jackson or Kelly. But that's the board.
When Jaylon Smith came out of HS to ND he was the #2 player in the country so it's not like we have an instant plug in like a Smith would be.
We've struggled with recruiting the back 7 thus far - the DBs and LBs are more mid level types and projects. But we are still in for quite a few that will decide in next few weeks or could flip (Hill and Long).
We also didnt land a LB last year. In fact we only landed 4 defensive players in total which is why we have some issues coming up on D with youth.
November 28th, 2015 at 9:29 PM ^
I would fucking kill for a season where recruiting imbalances don't fuck over Michigan's depth...
November 28th, 2015 at 9:37 PM ^
So I know you just did a best guess 16 v2.0 - is there anyone even on our board that's a Jaylen Smith type?
Bush Jr? J. Jones? I mean, they're from Fla at least, a place which has been demonsrated to produce fast LBs... but Jaylen Smith was close to a Top-10 player in his class, wasn't he, or at least the #1 LB?
We're down to hoping for 1 or both of the Floridians, while hoping the camp commits JH got last summer are either true undervalued gems - or as seems increasingly likely according to your update - asked to greyshirt or just left hanging?
After today we need to do something more about that position!
EDIT: OK, apparently you answered all these questions while I was typing.
D. Jackson is still a legit hope, and maybe one who could play in '16 even if not being a huge difference maker right off, right?
November 28th, 2015 at 9:42 PM ^
November 29th, 2015 at 12:01 AM ^
Those are not all "low rated guys" lol. The top 2 are better than anything a team like MN or NW gets. And similar to a lot of LBs MSU gets. And who are excellent for MSU.
- Ferns - 158
- Winovich - 287
- Furbush - 519
- Wangler - 778
Wangler DID have a pSU offer and PSU is supposedly LB U.
I am not asking them to be superstars. But these are the guys the MSUs of the world make into impact players like an Ed Davis (587), or Darien Harris (619) or now reshke (188). Bullough was ranked 570 and mans the MLB of a ferocious front 7.
Chris Frey was in that same class and was rated in the 600s. He started at first when Ed Davis got hurt and is a platoon now as the 4th LB.
If you can only develop top 250 guys you dont have a good staff at developing.
November 28th, 2015 at 10:13 PM ^
in the MAC, AAC, MWC, etc.?
You will never get a great 5th yr grad transfer from a power 5 team.
Might be possible to attact a guy who developed into a great LB at a lesser program who wants to spend a 5th year at Michigan.
November 28th, 2015 at 10:33 PM ^
Do you ever watch the MAC? They don't play defense.
November 28th, 2015 at 11:21 PM ^
in the Bign Ten (Howard) from Alabama Birmingham, a program so bad they stopped playing football.
There are a few guys every year that at minor programs that are actually very good players, but somehow did not get power 5 offers.
If there is a LB at a non-power 5 school that is graduating this spring and has developed into a good player, a 5th yr transfer could help Michigan a lot.
Does such a guy exist? Maybe. Maybe not. Worth checking out.
November 28th, 2015 at 8:42 PM ^
It's a real worry. LBs were a weakness this season and we lose both (well, all three for those rare occasions that we're not in nickel) after this season. The DL looks like it will be monstrous, especially with real and potential recruits coming in for depth, but Gedeon is the only guy who could even see the field this year. It's reasonable to think that he'll grow in the offseason, but it is not reasonable to think that another guy will just emerge out of thin air and be a plus player.
And that could be a problem.
November 28th, 2015 at 8:43 PM ^
He's good at playing downhill, he's strong, and could probably add 10-15 pounds without losing much explosiveness. Plus, our depth at safety (this phrase is so unfamiliart to me) is not terrible with Kinnel coming in and Peppers playing a jack of all trades role.
If I saw a Gedeon-Dymonte (at 220 lbs) starting linebacker crew in a 4-2-5 with McCray thrown in on 4-3 I'd be happy. I think that could work. maybe it's crazy, but I hope they explore it.
November 28th, 2015 at 8:45 PM ^
Interesting idea, one of the better ones on the thread. I would expect Dymonte to be needed at safety, though. We lose Wilson, and we're going to need him in the back.
November 28th, 2015 at 8:52 PM ^
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November 28th, 2015 at 8:55 PM ^
November 28th, 2015 at 9:01 PM ^
I agree.
Delano is 205. Thomas is 191. I mean if you are going to pack 12-15 lbs on someone to give him a fighting chance in the run game its Hill.
But I still think you have to build a team to account for injuries. We have 2 safeties who have played any reasonable time in games coming back - Hill and Thomas. Kinnel is a projection right now who plays on special team. Maybe he is a future All American, who knows. Right now he is a projection. If he is not ready to start next year if one of the top 2 is injured you are looking at Peppers losing his coveted spot and going to safety or taking Clark away from CB and moving him back to S.
There is not a lot of depth back in the DBs as some assume.
November 28th, 2015 at 9:09 PM ^
Kinnel is a total question mark.
November 28th, 2015 at 8:50 PM ^
Hell, why not try Peppers at LB? RB and LB are our two weakest positions next year. Where do we need him most? He could gain 15-20lbs and be an LB.
November 28th, 2015 at 9:20 PM ^
In the late 1990s, UofM played two smaller LBs, Dhani Jones and Ian Gold. Both were very fast, quick, athletic, and went on to play several years in the NFL. I could definitely see Peppers adding 5-10 pounds and playing the wideside LB position where he could have even more of an impact than he does now.
I see two other possibilities for 2016 position changes into the LB position, Deveon Smith and one of our bigger safeties.
The above changes would give us LBs who would be much faster and more athletic than Desmond Morgan and Joe Bolden.
November 28th, 2015 at 9:47 PM ^