Threets Future
People are starting to get caught up in who will start next year and I believe pretty strongly that it won't be Steven Threet. The argument against this is that he is only a redshirt freshman and he will continue to improve and develop in the offseason, but I think that a lot of his problems aren't things that can be fixed. Seriously just watch a youtube video of Tate Forcier (below). The way he moves around, the way he gets rid of the ball quickly, the way he knows when to tuck the ball and scramble. His O-line is terrible, and he is constantly improvising and throwing on the run, or just running for positive yardage. Some things you don't learn w/ another year or two, and Forcier has these things, and Threet doesnt.
Forcier would look just as out of place in a Pro Style offense, he would scramble too much like Jeff "happy feet" Garcia does. He would tuck the ball too early when the pocket starts to collapse. Likewise Threet looks out of place in a spread option offense. He holds onto the ball too long. He doesnt tuck the ball fast enough when its time to run. When he has to move around, his accuracy dips big time.
Obviously this is a highlight reel and everything looks awesome, but if I just focus on the way he moves around and the way he gets rid of the ball quickly on the move, I cannot imagine Threet ever doing these things.
November 3rd, 2008 at 6:37 PM ^
November 3rd, 2008 at 7:15 PM ^
November 3rd, 2008 at 7:21 PM ^
Threet can stretch a defense with his arm strength. However, said ability depends on accuracy, which is obviously lacking. Also, Threet is tall giving him better vision of the field, which is one thing that Tate will not have. Personally I respect Threet a lot but I don't see him keeping his job unless he can improve accuracy.
Forcier as you said is basically Jeff Garcia who can make plays even if his line is bad but will probably get happy feet when the blocking is there, which will probably annoy me some. However, his accuracy is off the charts (is he a robot?) and it is going to help the offense out a lot. His size will hurt him as far as durability over the length of the season/career.
Beaver on the other hand has a stronger arm than Tate and will be the best runner of the three.He has good height but will need to put on some weight. From what I have watched he has a tendency to make bad decisions and likes to hold on to the ball too long. He is the wild card in this group.
I think we will end up seeing all three next year. Tate should be able to lock down the starting position but I can see him getting banged up. I think Threet and Beaver will be 2a and 2b. Beaver should be able to pass up Threet on the depth chart because of his running ability but he will have to convince defenses to respect the pass and I am not sure if he will be able to do that as a freshman.
November 3rd, 2008 at 7:52 PM ^
Keep in mind that the READ Option is all about reading the defense before the play. Threet will have a full year of experience in this area, whereas the two freshmen will not. Threet has also shown that he can lead this team to some degree and until one of the other two can show that they too can lead the team, Threet will start.
I also believe that they will try to play either Beaver or Forcier but not both. I think they will evaluate them in the offseason. If they can start the better of the two and he does well, them may try to redshirt the other or move them to another position.
November 3rd, 2008 at 9:39 PM ^
November 3rd, 2008 at 10:24 PM ^
Yes, audibles come from the sideline, but he still has to read the defense before the play to decide if he should do a quick pass to the slot receiver. You are probably right in the fact that he reads the DE after the play starts, but he also needs to make reads on whether or not to keep the ball before the play starts.
And regardless of when he is making the reads, my point is still valid that a year of experience will be extremely beneficial for Threet and will probably keep him as our starter next year, at least for the beginning of the season.
November 4th, 2008 at 12:43 AM ^
Yes, the "read" in "read option" has nothing to do with pre-snap reads. If it did, then every offense would be called the "read spread" and the "read triple option" and the "read power I" and the "read run 'n' shoot", etc. Every quarterback in every offensive system does at least a rudimentary read of the defense before the snap.
Anyway, your point is valid - a year of experience is helpful, especially at QB. But "reading" a defensive end crashing is not as difficult as "reading" a zone blitz. That's one of the easiest adjustments Forcier and/or Beaver will have to make. Hell, if I took a few snaps at QB and ran the read option, I could figure out whether the DE is crashing or staying home. I'd get yanked either way because I'd fumble the ball or get the shit kicked out of me by a 270 pound DE, but daggonit, I'd make the right read.
November 3rd, 2008 at 8:39 PM ^
People need to quit hating so much on Threet; the kid is playing his heart out despite being injured. People are smoking crack if they think Beaver or Forcier are guaranteed to start the first game of 2009. Threet has held his own for being a freshman and not being the type of QB that Rich Rod covets. He will have a full year of running the offense and plus all the Barwis conditioning. Forcier or Beaver would have to flat out dominate spring and fall practice to take over the starting job.
Forcier's level of competition isn't that great, so I would take his highlights with a grain of salt. He may be 70-80% accurate in high school, but it won't be like that once he starts playing legit D-1 competition.
November 3rd, 2008 at 8:48 PM ^
November 3rd, 2008 at 9:10 PM ^
November 3rd, 2008 at 9:34 PM ^
November 4th, 2008 at 12:49 AM ^
Look, I think Threet might turn out okay in this offense. But not because of your logic.
November 4th, 2008 at 2:00 AM ^
14/20 and 3 interceptions is not unheard of. Just because he can thread a needle with a pass doesn't mean that he takes the college level safeties into account.
And when Threet has a defense and OLine anywhere near PSUs or Illinois' you can make those comparisons. How about we compare him to Terrelle Pryor. Who scored more points against PSU? against Purdue? Wisconsin? Sheridan started out this season because he was more accurate on short passes and slightly faster, but he makes poor decisions like chucking the ball off of his back foot, or keeping the ball on an option and reversing field when he should have pitched it.
I think that either Forcier and Beaver may have earned the starting position by the end of the year, but experience and decision making will be a major factor starting out the season next year.
November 4th, 2008 at 7:19 AM ^
November 3rd, 2008 at 9:50 PM ^
If a true freshman starts next year, it's going to be rough for awhile. We need Threet to buy time for the freshman to get acclimated to D-1 football, gain experience, and learn the system. Recruit's highlight tapes are nice, but they are only showing the HIGHLIGHTS. So many people saw Feagin's Highlight tape and believed that he could be ready to run the offense after going through fall practice. We know what happened with that.
I believe that Forcier and Beaver will be phased into the starting QB role and by end of '09 or beginning of '10, one of them will have taken over starting QB position.
November 4th, 2008 at 2:10 AM ^
November 3rd, 2008 at 9:01 PM ^
I know a lot of people complain about Threet and his overthrows or inaccuracy. But if they really need him to work on it they will, you can believe that. That's what the off-season is for. This last offseason he had just transfered here and Rich and the staff were still "feeling things out".
Now they will know what they have, etc.
November 4th, 2008 at 12:52 AM ^
November 4th, 2008 at 11:27 AM ^
... because the offense in the fall camp and the bowl season is the same one UM is running now. That makes total sense why you think he sucks.
You don't know what you're talking about.
November 5th, 2008 at 12:00 AM ^
The pot calling the kettle black?
Joking aside, what I think he is saying is that mechanics can be worked on in the off season. This seems to be Threet's weakness. He makes a good read, and then throws it to taco pants. Now, something tells me that the throwing mechanics under Lloyd Carr are still the same as under RR.
That said, he had a full year at the collegiate level to work on these mechanics. We don't know how he would have been without that year, but his current throwing leaves much to be desired. That said, I pose this question. Will another year really help his accuracy all that much?
I'd like to say yes, and so he'll likely start. But he'll have to be picture perfect in my opinion or else RR will probably at least test the waters with Beaver or Forcier.
November 5th, 2008 at 12:01 AM ^
double post, sorry
November 5th, 2008 at 8:30 AM ^
November 5th, 2008 at 10:23 AM ^
That I know how to read.
"I agree that Threet will probably improve in the off-season. However, Threet transferred in the summer of 2007. He practiced with the team in fall camp, during the season, and through the bowl season. It's not like he and Rodriguez showed up at the exact same time."
That statement doesn't say anything about mechanics.
The post above does, and makes sense.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:27 AM ^
November 5th, 2008 at 10:38 AM ^
.. the crux of the post is Threet in the system. Implying something other than that could lead to misinterpretation, as it did.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:52 AM ^
November 5th, 2008 at 10:55 AM ^
November 5th, 2008 at 11:31 AM ^
Well played, sir. Well played.
November 4th, 2008 at 12:03 PM ^
November 4th, 2008 at 12:10 PM ^
November 4th, 2008 at 12:41 PM ^
November 4th, 2008 at 12:43 PM ^
As I said these are just rumblings now but a rumor usually grows legs for a reason. I'm hoping these are just rumors because I think [Steven] has down a hell of a job thus far.
I'm hoping our friends at GOBLUE Wolverine..Tom Beaver and Sam Webb might be able to find out more about this.
November 5th, 2008 at 11:43 AM ^
Sure, Threet has experience but remember that:
a) RR had a hard time during the first few games deciding between this guy and Nick freakin' Sheridan. We've all seen how bad Sheridan is. At this point, it's obvious that Threet is much better than Sheridan, but that wasn't obvious to RR at the beginning of the season. That may or may not say something about RR's opinion of how good (or not good) Three is.
b) RR has absolutely no problem playing true freshmen, as has been obvious this season. He even started one freshman (McGuffie) when he had a solid upperclassman at the same position who we now know to be a better option (Minor).
November 5th, 2008 at 12:02 PM ^
He is playing true freshman because he needs them in order to run his style of offense.
McGuffie started the first game because he is the only one who made it through the offseason without an injury and whenever Minor came in he proceeded to crack a 30 yard run and fumble on that or the next play.
RR looked at the Sheridan and saw a faster, more accurate quarterback that had the same amount of experience in college football as Threet. 2-0-1, Sheridan. Sheridan started the first game and got outplayed by Threet...barely. Threet started against Miami (NTM) and Sheridan came in later, when Threet could only move the ball on the opening drive. Sheridan led a TD drive as well. Neither one stood out. ND is when Threet clinched the starting position. RR has played who he perceives is the best man for the job all season. When the freshmen come in, they will have to play much better than Threet or Threet is going to start and they will get eased in until they prove themselves.
November 5th, 2008 at 12:10 PM ^
with you, except for the Sherridan being accurate.
Accurate does not apply to any QB on the UM roster at present. The best QB will win the job next year, and I am a firm believer that it will be a healthy Threet.
November 5th, 2008 at 12:18 PM ^
November 5th, 2008 at 12:53 PM ^
maybe Magnus is right. I need to learn to read.
Point taken.
November 5th, 2008 at 12:18 PM ^
November 5th, 2008 at 2:44 PM ^
November 5th, 2008 at 2:54 PM ^
November 6th, 2008 at 10:23 PM ^
November 8th, 2008 at 6:21 PM ^
Threet wasn't even brought here to start in a pro style offense. He was going to be the backup to Ryan Mallett.
November 8th, 2008 at 6:25 PM ^
November 9th, 2008 at 1:17 AM ^
November 9th, 2008 at 10:50 AM ^
November 9th, 2008 at 11:43 AM ^
November 9th, 2008 at 2:31 PM ^
FWIW, lots of people thought that had Lloyd (and Mallett) stayed, Threet would be battling for the starting job anyway, since Mallett was apparently such a bonafide dick.
Regardless, the notion that QB's are "brought in to be back ups" is imbecilic - you get the best players you can, and see what happens:
Brain Griese never "should have been" a starter - he unseated an incumbent Dreisbach.
John Navaree never "should have been" a 3 year starter - Henson left early.
Henne, at best, "should have been" starter for 2 years, if not 1, because Guttierez was going to the be the starter as a RS Sophomore.
The point? Shit happens, plans get scotched.
November 9th, 2008 at 10:36 AM ^
November 9th, 2008 at 4:23 PM ^
November 9th, 2008 at 4:46 PM ^