Threet

Submitted by Henne for Heis… on
I like Steve, and he is the best we've got right now. But damn, that guy cannot throw an accurate deep ball to save his own life. If he could hit guys like Stonum for big gains, then the entire offense opens up. Hopefully Tate can do this.

spartyNO

October 25th, 2008 at 10:41 PM ^

Threet sucks.  There is no way around it.  But I can't really hate on the guy too much because he is in a shitty situation.  When he transferred to Michigan he had no idea he would become the starter as a redshirt freshmen and run a completely new offense.  He's in a bad spot, for sure.  It could be worse though.  Could you imagine if he never transferred here in the first place?  Sheridan and Cone would be our QB's. 

Hard Gay

October 25th, 2008 at 10:46 PM ^

and I might not recall correctly cause i was vomitting up some bad lunch most of the 2nd half, Stonum dropped an accurate pass in the endzone with 2 minutes left.  

Threet is wildly inconsistent, and it seems that whenever he does make an accurate throw, his receivers drop them.

Watching pregame warmups today, when they were doing passing drills, there was only one completion out of 10 throws, each one of those throws hit the receivers' hands. That one completion would have been knocked away or intercepted in game because the receiver bobbled it.

I doubt Forcier or Beaver would do any better in this situation.  Hell, even if we had Pryor, he probably wouldn't have done well with this supporting cast. 

tbliggins

October 26th, 2008 at 1:36 AM ^

It really is a perfect sh*tstorm.  Even in 01 when we were breaking in a new oline and qb, at least Navarre had Walker to throw to. It really does not help Threet to have inexperienced WRs that have dropped balls on him.  Give him an extra offseason and the WRs an extra year of running routes and he will be alright.

scottcha

October 26th, 2008 at 11:46 AM ^

To be fair, that pass was a little behind the reciever and Stonum had to twist himself in the air to get his hands on it.  It wasn't exactly what I'd call an accurate pass, but it was certainly catchable.

joeyb

October 25th, 2008 at 11:12 PM ^

The biggest problem that I noticed with Threet was that he picks out his receiver before the snap and watches them until he passes. That is why corners were able to jump the pass and safeties were able to find the target, which made it seem like he was always throwing into double coverage. He was constantly getting reemed by RR because he wasn't seeing the open receiver because he wasn't looking at all of his receivers.

This is the type of play that you might expect out of a Freshman. A sophomore looks at all of his options. A Junior/Senior will stop looking at his target so the safeties don't know where he is throwing and then look back when he is ready to throw. Tate might be able to thread the ball into a tight seam, but don't expect him to be much better at watching his receivers.

West Texas Blue

October 25th, 2008 at 11:18 PM ^

Threet is a redshirt freshman and has a banged up throwing elbow; cmon people, really, what are your expectations?  Don't be too quick to assume that Beaver or Forcier will start next year; Threet will have an invaluable year of running this offense and is a gamer.  He just doesn't have a Braylon or Marquise Walker to save him (Henne and Navarre respectively).

With that being said, Threet does seem to have mechanical issues in which some people claim has been around since his high school days and is a recurring problem. Hopefully this can get fixed.

formerlyanonymous

October 26th, 2008 at 10:45 AM ^

The guy has had health problems and problems reading the defense in live games.  The health could probably be fixed by giving the elbow time to heal and strengthening it up.  Reading the defense is something you learn through experience.  Same thing with staring down receivers. I just don't see how you can assume he won't be better next year.

Forcier and Beaver could have the exact same problems next year.  They too will be inexperienced freshmen.

Glen Masons Hot Wife

October 26th, 2008 at 12:51 AM ^

Im not positive these apparent mechanical issues will be fixed. RR and staff rear option quarterbacks, who run first, throw a safe pass if necessary. Show me evidence of a mechanically evolved pocket passer under RR, and I'll buy that Threet's mechanics will get much better.

joeyb

October 26th, 2008 at 1:24 AM ^

I would bet that Forcier and Beaver would both throw first, then run. Having a QB like Pat White limits the offense. If they can have a 4th option in the option read to have the receivers go down field, that will open up the other 3 options a lot more.

I don't think the QB coach is going to help with mechanics as much as he probably should. They are probably concentrating on teaching Threet on how to make the right play call and how to run more than how to pass at this point. I doubt we see much improvement in this area.

hat

October 26th, 2008 at 12:56 AM ^

I would describe Shaun King and Woody Dantzler as more than just "option quarterbacks, who run first, throw a safe pass if necessary."  Those two racked up huge passing numbers.

mjv

October 26th, 2008 at 2:09 AM ^

Threet has been dealt a terrible hand.  There isn't a single thing that this offense can lean on when it gets into a spot. 

We have never had an OL that is this inexperienced.  Our best OL hasn't takn a snap this year due to injury (Zirbel).  Our second best (Shilling) was the worst OL on a very bad OL last year (Jake was a god, but everyone else was not -- think that picture Brian posted after the OSU game where EVERY DL was in the backfield). 

We are starting extremely green WRs and until PSU, our starting RB was a true freshman.  And when Threet drops back to pass, he needs to be very aware of the pass rush because our OL can't sustain blocks well.  Add to the mix that Threet is a freshman.  When situations get tight he can't handoff to Hart an have him run behind Jake.  He can't throw a jump ball to Braylon.  

he is a green QB without a safety net.  Any expectation of something more is folly.  And the kid is nursing a banged up elbow that has appears to have taken some velocity off of his throws. 

Passing judgement on his at this point is foolish at best.  There are so many other things that need to get fixed before a fair analysis of his performance can be conducted.

GNM

October 26th, 2008 at 4:41 AM ^

Out of high school, Threet signed with GT only to have them change to a Triple Option system for which he was horribly ill-suited.  So, the kid decided that he's going to come back to Michigan and take on one of the top quarterback rectuits in the country who everyone assume is going to be the heir apparent in Ryan Mallett.  That takes gutes.  Once he gets up here, already expecting an uphill battle, he finds out that once again, his school has hired a new coach and will, once again, implament an offense for which he is not ideal.  Then, after learning that offense, he gets passed over by a walk on to start the season. 

Threet, however, kept working hard, learned another offense, won the starting position, learned to make the reads, and has steadily been improving despite <i>two</i> bad elbows.   Yeah, he has accuracy issues.  Yeah, he stares down his intended target from the snap.  Yeah, he has trouble stepping up into the pocket whie staying on his feet.  But, not only has the kid not said a peep about the shit situation he was put into, he has responded by putting his shoulder down at the end of every run, improving his screens and swing passes, taking licks behind an awful o-line, and putting faith in his young recievers even after dozens of drops.

He is one of my favorite 2008 Wolverines.  

chitownblue (not verified)

October 26th, 2008 at 9:16 AM ^

Excellent post.

Quick correction, though - Paul Johnson and his triple-option didn't show up until this off-season, when Threet had already been up here for a redshirt year. When he left, GT was running a pro-style offense.

But yes - Threet is actually favorite player on the team as well. He has obvious issues at this point (accuracy, staring down receivers, etc.), but the kid has balls. He demonstrably plays hard, and plays injured. Most kids, with shit falling down all around him, as it has tended to do this year, would, at some point, let the frustration get the better of them - they'd start pointing fingers, however briefly, at a lineman for missing a block, or bitch out a receiver on the sideline for one of their frequent drops. Threet has kept his mouth shut, and has been nothing but a leader.

Swayze Howell Sheen

October 26th, 2008 at 9:41 AM ^

Does anyone really believe that if Threet is the QB next year, we will really be that much better? This is looking more and more like a longer rebuilding process than anyone hoped. And no matter what coach R says, this system needs a certain type of QB (like the OSU, Penn St., or Illinois QBs).

Thus, we can look forward to next year and Beaver or Forcier. The problem there is that both of those guys will be freshman. Thus, another bad year with Threet alternating with one of those guys. Maybe hope for a good offense in two years.

And the hope for a defense that saves us until the offense improves? That seems to have gone down the drain. Scott S. even admitted he was outcoached by Illinois and the Zook crew. If that isn't reason to be worried, what is?

I have really tried to be optimistic about this group, but reality intrudes.  

Maybe someone can convince me I am being too negative?

And the thought of a smug Dantonio, man that is hard to swallow. That guy is a complete moron, and now we have let him be king for the year. The only good news: the win probably guarantees he will be around for a long time, and if we do get better, he will be a good punching bag. 

formerlyanonymous

October 26th, 2008 at 11:04 AM ^

but, my current line of thinking has to do more with the Smart Football post on RR's route calling.  Like Brian, I also want to see if there is rhyme or reason to the particular routes we run on most passing plays.  One would think there are check downs on every play, but not always is Threet looking at 2nd or 3rd options.  Take the final 4th down play last night.  You can't tell me on 4th & 6 (iirc) there wasnt some sort of shorter route for a first down instead of only a fly/fade/flag route in double coverage deep.  Threet had some success checking down early in the season, but lately it appears he is trying too hard to be the game breaker himself.  

Again, I put most of this on inexperience.  Threet will watch plenty of tape over the next offseason and focus on quite a few of his flaws.   And of course the supporting OL and WRs have done meh in times that Threet has needed their help.  Most of that appears to be inexperience as well.  Hopefully most of that gets worked out over the offseason.

Defense I can't figure out at all.  Part of that has to do with the poor linebacking and secondary play.  My uneducated view suggests the majority of our original starters (Trent, Brown, Harrison) are better in defending the run than the pass.  I see all three of them constantly assisting in tackles near the LOS, but their coverage weakens due to their aggressive nature against the run.  I have not lost so much confidence in Warren.  I never really thought he was going to be OMG SHUTDOWN!, but he's played decently and is having to play much harder due to the weaknesses of the safeties.  Th LBs on the other hand are total hit or miss... both figuratively and physically.  Until they become more consistent, I don't know what to think.

I think next year should work out much better.  I mean its not like it could get much worse.  I refuse to start projecting for next year this early.  It'd be pointless.

joeyb

October 26th, 2008 at 12:00 PM ^

I actually believe that if Threet is QB next year, we will be that much better. Toward the end of the game, some one told the MSU DBs that if they watch Threet from the start of the play, he will tell them what is happening on that play. That will get fixed this off season. Threet will learn to check down. 1 is covered, 2 is covered, 3 is covered, run. Or 1 is covered, 2 is open, pass.

Shafer was taking credit for this players' mistakes. He cannot tackle Juice from the box when the LBs bite on the run up the gut or Benn when the DBs continuously leave him wide open. Give the coaching staff some time to get some players who can play their systems.

Dantonio is a mediocre coach at best. We should have fun with him in the future.

stubob

October 27th, 2008 at 12:35 PM ^

Having a flexible system is a benefit.  It lets you put the offense on the field that maximizes your strengths and minimizes the weaknesses.  So if the quarterback can't throw over 15 yards, you throw lots of screens, slants, that kind of stuff.  Look at how well that silly QB veer works.  If your receivers are stone hands, throw screens and outs to RBs out of the backfield. 

As Juice so obviously pointed out to us, you don't have to use your talents, faking to them is enough.  So fake a hand off and hit a slant, or fake a slant and hand off.  Keep the defense guessing.  You don't have to have dominate players at any position as long as you have decent skill at a variety of positions to keep them off balance.

Another year and Threet will be able to read defenses and decide what's the right thing to do.  We'll have decent enough backs that defenses will need to respect that.  If the O-line can give him a couple seconds to figure out who's open, he'll do much better.

Magnus

October 26th, 2008 at 10:45 AM ^

I do think that we could be better next year with Threet.  First of all, the deficiencies in the running game are largely due to the offensive line, which will be a year older, stronger, quicker, more experienced, and may have some new (aka better) faces on it.  Second, he shows flashes of excellence but he's inconsistent, which you should expect from a freshman.  Very few freshmen are great immediately, even the ones who are eventually great.  I could make a list for you that included names like Brady Quinn and Vince Young, but that would end up being a very long list.  This offense doesn't "need" an athletic quarterback.  You need only look at Kansas and Missouri, to name a couple, to find spread offenses that succeed with only mildly athletic quarterbacks.  I realize that Kansas and Missouri's offenses differ from Rodriguez's, but there are PLENTY of open receivers on the field; Threet just isn't hitting them right now.

baleedat

October 26th, 2008 at 10:53 AM ^

I too can appreciate Threet's balls (not his actual balls), but the guy hasn't thrown a spiral all year. Sometimes his ducks get to the right guy, but you have to admit he is not a great passer.

gmbblue

October 26th, 2008 at 11:56 AM ^

Has anyone noticed that threet only throws to the primary read, covered or not?  Take a loot at that throw to Moundros, it fooled no one, yet he was throwing it anyways.  He never looks for the open receiver, 8 games there is little excuse anymore.

hat

October 26th, 2008 at 12:26 PM ^

Shafer was taking credit for this players' mistakes. He cannot tackle Juice from the box when the LBs bite on the run up the gut or Benn when the DBs continuously leave him wide open. Give the coaching staff some time to get some players who can play their systems.

So we have worse defensive personnel than Minnesota (which held Illinois to 20 points), Wisconsin (held Ill to 17 pts) or even Louisiana-Monroe (20 points)?

Purdue held PSU to 20 points.  Do we have that much worse personnel than them?

Iowa held MSU to 16 points.  Are we that much less-talented than them?

In six games against non-MAC opposition, we are giving up 35.2 points per game.  It's one thing to say that our offense isn't capable of performing better than it is, but it's just ridiculous to say the same about the defense. 

formerlyanonymous

October 26th, 2008 at 3:22 PM ^

In terms of Linebackers, I would say, "yes, Minnesota and Wisconsin have better personnel currently starting than Michigan.  Wisconsin has upperclassmen with years of starting experience.  For the most part, most of Minnesota's LBs were starters last year.  I haven't seen enough of Iowa or Purdue, but I'll throw out a guess that they have more than one returning starter/person with experience at LB.  Again, I look at the LB recruiting over the last few years, we may not be that much better than a Purdue or Iowa.  Our secondary has become extremely aggressive against the run, therefore weakening our pass defense which already is weakened from our poor LB corps.  Our only highlight has been our D Line that has been removed from half of the games.  Ergo, you have one poor group, one bad group trying to compensate (or in the case of the safeties, cover completely) for the poor group creating a pretty bad group, and one group totally taken out of the equation.  That leaves you between poor and pretty bad as a unit. 

FrankieMachine

October 26th, 2008 at 12:43 PM ^

Threets ability to overthrow our 6 foot + recievers, yet underthrow 5-9 Odoms consistantly, has been one of the more amusing storylines of this year.  Is this a problem with all super-tall QB's?  Were there similiar problems (accuracy wise) with Navarre (I know about the batted down passes) and Mallett? 

Magnus

October 26th, 2008 at 1:04 PM ^

Yes, both Navarre and Mallett were very inaccurate.  They both overthrew a lot of receivers.  Underthrowing receivers has not been a common problem at Michigan, at least that I can remember.  We always recruit rocket-armed QB's.

bballa6290

October 26th, 2008 at 1:14 PM ^

he's the best we got...he makes good decisions but he doesnt have the talent, and he holds on to the ball too long sometimes...i agree, if he threw the ball accurately we would have won the game, but the guy's got balls, man...wit two messed up elbows he still dove head first into tackles and got the extra yards, the guys got heart, but he doesnt always have the talent...look at it this way, its better than having nick sheridan start

bballa6290

October 26th, 2008 at 1:14 PM ^

he's the best we got...he makes good decisions but he doesnt have the talent, and he holds on to the ball too long sometimes...i agree, if he threw the ball accurately we would have won the game, but the guy's got balls, man...wit two messed up elbows he still dove head first into tackles and got the extra yards, the guys got heart, but he doesnt always have the talent...look at it this way, its better than having nick sheridan start