Tate Bashing
Was I watching a different 12 games this year?? I saw some Tate bashing on the liveblog and on some posts the last couple of weeks. For the people that are down on him, I ask you what do you want?? The kid was a true freshmen who lead some pretty gutsy comebacks. He was hurt for 2/3 of the season, his center was hurt, his top RB was hurt, his #2 rb was hurt, his line wilted on their pass protection and their is still talk of wanting Gardner in there. His accuarcy was remakable for a true frosh and he should get a lot healthier and stronger in the offseason. I think this kid will be a M legend before he is done, not replaced.
January 2nd, 2010 at 7:05 PM ^
Some people confuse emotion with fact when they type.
January 2nd, 2010 at 6:12 PM ^
When you get one conference win, it's hard to absolve the quarterback, the most visible player on the field, from blame. Gardner is still in hype mode, so obviously he sounds better to a lot of people right now, but Tate will definitely be the starter next year and beyond, given that he progresses like expected. If you don't think they are critiques to be made about his play last year, then you didn't watch the games.
January 2nd, 2010 at 7:46 PM ^
Forcier played with a concussion and an AC sprain for the last eight games behind a line that really, really missed David Molk. There was no legitimate backup QB this year, so he gutted it out. I would imagine that he lied about his health, as all warriors do, to stay on the field. I really don't understand what there is to criticize here.
January 2nd, 2010 at 11:39 PM ^
Yeah I mean if you're looking for a movie script than it couldn't be more sound. If you're looking for a QB to execute your offense, then there's a lot to improve on, such as: pocket presence, ball security, grasp of the offense, and run game reads to name a few. The fact that he's a freshman doesn't make him immune to criticism, it means he's much more likely to grow out of it than a Reggie Ball.
January 4th, 2010 at 12:06 PM ^
"The fact that he's a freshman doesn't make him immune to criticism"
Yeah it does.
He was a freshman who made freshman mistakes, but he was the best we had at that position. "Criticizing" a true freshman who's your only real option at QB is pretty pointless.
January 2nd, 2010 at 11:31 PM ^
Amen,
Warrior= Look at how he led us back vs sparty in regulation, while you could tell he was clearly hurt
January 2nd, 2010 at 6:13 PM ^
in the Big 11. Must be other folks that thought he did a great job. He sure was better than TP his first year.
January 2nd, 2010 at 6:38 PM ^
I like Tate and think that he did an outstanding job considering he is a true freshman, we had injuries, and struggled as a TEAM. However, Pryor had a better Freshman year in terms of stats. Granted Pryor had a better supporting cast as a freshman.
Pryor in 2008 100 completions in 165 attempts for 1311 yards. 60.6% 7.95 yards/attempt 56 yards for longest completion 12 tds 4 ints 21 sacks 146.50 rating
Forcier in 2009 165 completions in 281 attempts for 2050 yards. 58.7% 7.30 yards/attempt 76 yards for longest completion 13 tds 10 ints 25 sacks 128.15 rating
Forcier will develop into a great QB, especially as our entire offense develops with him.
January 2nd, 2010 at 6:19 PM ^
It's silly. A freshman who if not on the team, the team goes 2-10 and Rodriguez is not the coach anymore.
I'm not sure how Tate Forcier can be criticized while Rodriguez remains on a pedestal, seemingly beyond reproach.
I'm not saying you can't find fault with Forcier. He made his share of mistakes, and some you'd think he would have learned from or stopped doing later as the season wore on.
But again--it seems the Tate Bashers are part of the group of fans who want to continue to find anyone but Rodriguez to pin the blame on.
January 2nd, 2010 at 6:22 PM ^
I always read about Cody Green living here in Husker land (their highly touted dual-threat QB recruit who is also a true frosh this year, AND enrolled early just like Tate) and have to say that Tate was head and shoulders better than Green was. Green might be a better athlete, but as far as understanding of the game, reading the D and making a good decision based on the read, and presence as the leader of the offense, Green doesn't even come close.
People are crazy if they think Tate underachieved; if anything he overachieved given the circumstances. Go watch what Cody Green did and then what Tate did. Tate absolutely destroyed for a true frosh. Were there disappointments? Of course, but give the kid a break and get some perspective on the situation. I'll take Tate over any other true frosh QB from last years recruiting class in a heartbeat.
January 2nd, 2010 at 6:27 PM ^
I thought I was the only one.
I'm anxious to see how Green progresses, though.
And I agree with you: anyone who thinks Tate underachived is a dolt.
The OP rightly points out the disintegration of the team around him.
The immediate future of Rodriguez and UM football rests squarely on the shoulders of Tate. I think he'll deliver.
January 2nd, 2010 at 6:36 PM ^
Yeah there's a few on here. I'm pretty indifferent about Nebraska, though it's hard not to like their defense.
January 2nd, 2010 at 6:57 PM ^
As Michigan fans, it's sometimes hard not to be envious of a D-III defense
January 2nd, 2010 at 9:39 PM ^
Don't remind me.
January 2nd, 2010 at 8:14 PM ^
I thought i would run into maybe 1 other person that is a husker but two im impressed.
Cody green had an awkward release but had power behind his throws. Id take Tate over him anyday
January 2nd, 2010 at 9:26 PM ^
that's a quality post...kid's 18, he's going to be better.
January 2nd, 2010 at 6:21 PM ^
None from me. I was pretty happy with his play most of the season. He was definitely hurt and made some costly mistakes, but at the same time hes a freshman. I think he'll improve quite a bit before his time is done at Michigan.
January 2nd, 2010 at 6:24 PM ^
He is going to be good. He has a lot of work to do to though. And let's not pretend that our Oline was fantastic.
January 2nd, 2010 at 6:24 PM ^
I seriously can't wait for Molk's return.
January 4th, 2010 at 12:11 PM ^
Completely different line with him healthy.
Molk stays healthy, the bandwagon will fill up again. Haters will be sporting Tate jerseys. Dogs and cats living together. Mass hysteria!
January 2nd, 2010 at 6:23 PM ^
I was saying, in some other threads, that Tate still has some things to work on - namely, passing from the pocket, and hitting the timing routes better (i.e. putting the ball to a spot before the receiver comes out of his break).
So yeah, I hope you aren't directing this at me, because I wasn't "bashing" him, but merely engaging in a discussion at to what he can do to improve.
January 2nd, 2010 at 7:12 PM ^
is about you.
January 2nd, 2010 at 7:30 PM ^
if you assumed the original post was about you.
January 2nd, 2010 at 7:47 PM ^
haha. Instead, there was a recent thread in which I pointed out what areas I felt like he could improve on. I got some negs for that, so I became curious if the original poster was referring to me.
January 2nd, 2010 at 6:23 PM ^
I think Tate's shoulder injury had a lot to do with his less-than-amazing performance during the mid-to-late season. He'll come back a few pounds heavier with his shoulder at 100%, having learned more of the play book and will hopefully be more comfortable making reads...and when he does, watch out!
Aside from his awesome accuracy, some of Tate's best qualities are his intangibles. Kid's got heart and--dare I say it--moxie.
Tate's the real deal and I honestly believe he could contend for a Heisman at some point.
January 2nd, 2010 at 6:28 PM ^
"Aside from his awesome accuracy, some of Tate's best qualities are his intangibles. Kid's got heart and--dare I say it--moxie."
Gritty? Scrappy?
January 2nd, 2010 at 6:27 PM ^
played fairly well last year. The only problem I have with him is the way he waves the ball around in his hand, which he lost a few more times than he should have. He should be alot better next year so Michiagn can red-shirt Gardner and let him get some practice time.
January 2nd, 2010 at 6:31 PM ^
I was amazed he didn't fumble more, given the way he carried the ball. He's gotta stop doing that.
January 2nd, 2010 at 6:40 PM ^
by, say 3-6 over the course of the season. It's not often that you can pickout, "Do this one simple thing, lower your turnovers by 3-6."
January 2nd, 2010 at 7:23 PM ^
Yeah, but if it were so easy for him to fix, why didn't he fix it after his first 5, 6, 7 fumbles last year? That's my only criticism of Tate in an otherwise good year (given the circumstances) - why did he never learn not to carry the ball like a loaf of bread?
January 2nd, 2010 at 8:30 PM ^
Agreed, When he makes his initial scramble out of the pocket the ball is still close to him but if he runs into another defender while making that scramble thats when the ball starts getting away from his body and fumbles. The good news is thats not that hard to fix
January 2nd, 2010 at 6:36 PM ^
Tate made a lot of the mistakes a freshman makes. I am looking foward to a time when half of our fanbase isn't rooting for a true freshman QB to start. That almost gaurantees at least 3 losses from that one player alone. When Ryan Mallet came in as arguablý the best QB in the class, everyone expected him to wait his turn to play, now we deel like we will lose these recruits if we don't promise them the starting spot. I am hoping tate's play keeps gardner on the bench for a couple of years and then his play holds off the next stud recruit.
January 3rd, 2010 at 2:13 AM ^
Tate looked WAY better than Mallett did as a freshman, more in command of the offense, more accurate, and with better intangibles IMO. And now look what Mallett has become. There is no reason at all to think Tate can't progress in exactly the same way.
January 3rd, 2010 at 2:24 AM ^
That is an excellent point, but saying he has better intagibles is implying that those intagibles are tangible, which would mean that they aren't intangbile at all. Sorry the use of the term "intangibles" bugs me. Tate's leadership, character, drive, and work ethic were superior to Ryan Mallett's.
January 2nd, 2010 at 6:41 PM ^
I have criticized him and I will continue to, if he doesn't mature off the field. I was very happy with his play and I don't want to see a first time starter for the third year in a row. Ultimately, I want him to succeed. But when he goes on websites and posts that he is going to transfer and stuff like that, I think that is worth criticizing.
There are far more things to like about him, rather than dislike. But criticizing his play at times or not liking what comes off as a lack of maturity (right or wrong) doesn't mean I don't think he can and will win here. I still believe he will (and should) be the starter next year and they will be a much improved team.
January 2nd, 2010 at 6:48 PM ^
Tate got bashed. So did Devin. So did Denard. Doesn't make it right but it happens. No need to be thin skinned about it.
Moreover, Tate collapsed like a house of cards everytime he got touched last year. I am looking forward to having a big, strong sturdy quarterback back there with a pocket presence. Someone with a great "stiffarm" who can break tackles.
Tate only averaged 2 yards a carry. 2 YARDS PER CARRY!!! That is not a typo. In a quarterback driven offense that is simply not getting it done. Period. His production was horrific! Horrific! We need a quarterback back there that can atleast average 3 to 4 yards a carry everytime he runs or else this offense is working from a deficit far too much.
I never saw Tate break one single tackle all year. All year! Look at Terrel Pryor.... Vince Young.... Jeremiah Masoli who ran right over the Ohio State linebacker last night. We need that in this offensive attack. Someone who is both elusive and strong. Someone who can break tackles. Tate can't do that. Tate is not the answer. And Rich Rod knows this.... that is why he is still looking for his quarterback.... THE quarterback to run his offense. And it is not Tate.
Moreover, the guy is short. Has to roll to one side of the fied or the other to see downfield and throw the ball. That is a huge hinderance for any offense.
Tate has a cap gun for an arm. Could not throw the ball downfield effectively all year. And the excuses about being hurt simply don't fly. Tate couldn't throw the ball downfield from the very first game that he played. Weak weak arm.
Lastly, his decision making was horrible. Horrible!
I, for one, am not drinking the Kool Aid. I am looking forward to the day that we have a big, strong, fast, elusive quarterback back there with great pocket presence. A quarterback with great presence who is not drama prone.
We can do without Tate's drama queen antics on the football field. We are Michigan. We can do better than this guy.
Now go ahead.... neg me. I have dared to speak against the chosen one.... the Tater Tot drama queen. Neg away
January 2nd, 2010 at 7:10 PM ^
I see you understand what I'm getting at. I didn't even read you post. I was too busy typing mine (lol). Scrappy is not what I like to hear about a U of M QB. "5 star talent" is the the description I like to hear. U of M fans are wanting for the days of old where 3 yards and a cloud of dust and 7 step drop backs were the norm. Penn State and OSU have past us because they were smart enough to realize that they were in the business of winning college game and not developing pro QB's. Some people may want to compare Tate to Troy Smith but they have to remember that Troy was 20 pound heavier and was athletic enough that Tressel had him returning kickoffs. U of M fans have let one year of terrible QB play jade them and will now except anything. I'm like you, we should know and expect better. I didn't even go into his attitude on the field and his facebook issues. Hell his brothers couldn't find a place in Div 1 football and he is smaller and less athletic than them.
Anytime Matt Millien says your the "best QB in the Big Ten" you have to be worried (lol....just joking but that is kind of scary) .
January 2nd, 2010 at 9:42 PM ^
How is you typing your post funny in any way?
January 2nd, 2010 at 10:53 PM ^
just so i could neg you...
January 2nd, 2010 at 11:38 PM ^
I'm just saying but I can name two right away
Notre Dame game, he juked a domer out of his jock strap, and then during the Sparty game when he led us back to tie the game in regulation he broke at least one tackle including running down the left sideline, make sparty miss, then getting a first down.
Tate Forcier is Tate Forcier....'Nuff Said
January 3rd, 2010 at 2:33 AM ^
Criticism is fine. He did many things poorly, especially late in season. There is not one single thing you mentioned that can't be tied to "true freshman" and offensive line, however.
"Breaking tackles"--that is your criticism? That can't be taken seriously. He isn't a "big strong sturdy" QB--and many that do not fit your apparently only possible description of QB success have had fantastic college careers.
And Tate couldn't throw the ball downfield from the first game he played? You apparently missed the long pass for a TD against Western. No, he does not have a great arm, that is apparent. But again, many guys have had GREAT college careers having average arms. You seemed also to have missed this.
And decision making? By definition, a guy that completes 60% of his passes as a freshman is making the right decision the majority of the time. This will only get better.
You simply are blinded by the vision of your own prejudices.
I'm perfectly willing to see if Tate gets beat out later in his career--maybe that will happen, and if so we'll have a very good QB in his place. But to write him off as a true freshman is simply ignorant.
January 2nd, 2010 at 6:56 PM ^
Sorry if you have a real eye for football your realize this about Tate.
1) Tate is in an offense that does not fit his skills. The run orientated spread ask the QB to handle the ball up to 70% of the time. This requires your QB to be one of the 5 best athletes on your roster if you want to be successful in the Big Ten. Tate remines be of Drew Tate from Iowa who played in a pro set offense in the Big Ten and had some success.
2) Tate is too small. Lets face it 185 pound QB's don't really make it in the Big Ten. This is not the day and age of Doug Flutie. LB's are to big and fast. Tate probably runs about a 4.75 and that is simply to slow for a small man asked to run the ball 10 plus times a game. He should have been redshirted and allowed to naturally gain weight over time. If he gets up to 205-210 then he might have a chance surviving the big ten.
3) Health is also a concern because if you can't stay healthy then you can't be on the field. Football coaches hate players that they can't count on. Think Brandon Minor. Great player, when he played but you couldn't count on him from week to week. Tate's knee and shoulder injuries effected his play last year and unless he can gain 20 pounds during the off season and not lose any speed we should expect more of the same. As said before, I compare him to Drew Tate who was a good QB but could not stay healthy at Iowa
4)Decision making. I know Tate was a freshman but it seemed to me he had a hard time learning from week to week. Some of the same mistakes he made in the spring game he was making OSU week. This worried me very much. I don't mind mistakes but I like guys who can adapt and progressively get better over time during a SEASON. Tate needs to stop trying to be a hero and just make the basic play at times.
It seems most of U of m fan got fooled by the Western, ND, Indiana, and Eastern start. I sorry folks this is U of M. You are ultimately judged by your performance against the cream of the Big Ten, pre-season top 25 teams and bowl competition. Threet and Sheridan made fans satisfied with mediocrity and it shows. If Tate was on another team we would be salivating to play him and knock is small a$$ out the game. Dave Molk does not make an offense and Tate had talent around him. If Navarre or Henne performed like him we would be running him out of town. Say what you want but if Gardener is not starting soon then God help us all.
January 2nd, 2010 at 7:02 PM ^
God help us all if you continue to post.
January 2nd, 2010 at 7:20 PM ^
God help us if you have any part in deciding who the QB next year. Tressel was smart enough to bench a senior QB and got a Rose Bowl out of it. I see your satisfied with winning the Capitol One bowl against young teams and NC's every 50 years. The point of hiring Rich Rod was to get better and not the status quo. I don't like losing to USC and OSU let alone Illinois. Fault me for that.
But hay keep drinking that $hit favored Tate Kool-Aid. Just don't catch dysentery and try to kiss your mom with that mouth son. 5 star QB's don't sit very long for undersized primadonna's.
January 2nd, 2010 at 7:28 PM ^
I long for the days when we have a coach who makes playing time decisions solely based on a player's recruiting profile, height and weight.
I also love the "i'm not satisfied" with National Championships every 50 years. yes, you certainly deserve more than that. all that you've done. all that you've worked for. you deserve better than every other fan of other team in college football. you truly are the king of kings.
January 2nd, 2010 at 11:55 PM ^
Vince Young sat and was a 5*
'Nuff Said
January 2nd, 2010 at 7:23 PM ^
I love posts that start of with some version of "if you knew as much about football as I do, you would agree with me." Not pretentious at all. What makes you think this is a run oriented spread, first of all. This isn't west virginia's or tulane's offense, it is michigan's and I would like to see how he develops it here. Secondly, if devin gardner starts next year we will lose 5 games and you will be here claiming we should start a true freshman in 2011. If you had an eye for football you would hope for gardner in 2012.
January 2nd, 2010 at 7:33 PM ^
Tate will be way ahead of Devin next year. Gardner would be best suited to red-shirt next year and learn as much as he can. If Gardner beats out Tate and is that much better, he should start but I don't see it. And Tate did as much as expected of a true freshmen.
January 2nd, 2010 at 7:29 PM ^
Some of the same mistakes he made in the spring game? I believe there was one- a pass that should have been picked by a LBer he didn't see.
As for your claim of a 4.75 40. Those guys don't make 31 yard TD runs against anyone. To small, he was a true freshmen who had never lifted weights for crying out loud. He will get bigger and stronger. Our D would not have been able to catch him or knock him out. They let Cousins run wild, made Tolzien look all world, let Elliot look great and break off some 10+ yard runs.
Fans aren't satisfied at all, but you need to have realistic expectations of freshman. He made 1st team Freshman All Big 10, had some memorable comebacks, and made some freshman mistakes. He wasn't surrounded by Jake Long, Braylon Edwards, or Mike Hart like our last freshman to start at QB was.
January 2nd, 2010 at 7:48 PM ^
Sorry 31 yard runs against Notre Dame don't impress me. Split the safeties against OSU and then you will get me to take notice. You guys have faith and I have history on my side. LSU, Texas, OSU, Penn State,Florida, USC and most 10 ten programs don't ride 6 foot and hopefully 200lb's QB;s. Do you understand how big Tim Tebow and Chase Daniels are? They can handle the pounding Tate can't. Denard has special speed and could be a Pat White type but I just don't see it with him either long term. When you can't see over the line people, you're in trouble. We can argue all night but the fact is we are losing to teams like Purdue, MSU, and god for godsakes Illinois. If you don't recognize that defensive coordinators adapted to what Tate was doing and we went 1-7 at in conference with him at QB then I can't help you. Like I said before, I have better expectations of the U of M QB and don't want to finally see a winning season in 2012 going 9-3 losing to OSU, PSU, and the bowl game.
Keep on hating on guy like Pryor but no one but the U of M fan base and Matt Millen believes he's better. I read your post here mid season and almost threw up laughing. I'm sick of those OSU bastards beating us to a pulp and getting the glory along with it. I was happy for OSU and the Big Ten yesterday but I couldn't help to think what if that was the Wolverines. But if Tates you man keep on dreaming.