a terrible blight on our fine country
Stand up during the game
yeah! i hate when people try to tell me how to enjoy the game!
another thread about this? it seems like this always evolves into the same comments:
1) if you stand up just to stand up, and you're the only person (or group), you're just being inconsiderate
2) feel free to stand up if something is going on to warrant it
3) someone typically says something about it not being notre dame and not being the student section or something like that
I've actually seen ushers called in my section (7) to make people sit down.
why do people do that? i doubt anyone complains to an user at the horseshoe or beaver stadium? when 40-50 year olds yell at me to sit down when the other team has 2nd down, I get quite annoyed.
sort of like how they are quite annoyed by you standing up? It's call being considerate of others.
what i want to know is why normal behavior at penn state or ohio state is inconsiderate at michigan?
have you ever been to a game in Columbus or State College?
Their fans are crazy and loud but I really don't think I saw everyone standing up all game long (and we were even up in the rafters in the "Michigan Student Section")
Obviously we are classier than the people who attend Penn State and (especially) Ohio State games.
I'm tired of this so after this post I'm done with this:
I agree with Gater:
1. Stand up if everyone around you is standing up.
2. Sit down if everyone else is sitting down.
3. If it's a big play stand up and try to get everyone else to get into it
4. Don't be a douche
5. Respect everyone at the game
Did I miss anything?
Sorry to post a simple 'i agree' entry, but since I started the other thread and didn't do a good job of explaining my whole pint of view ... I totally agree with bouje and gater. Well stated.
nothing to see here!
Should probably stick to the other thread for this argument - though most people would probably take noise over standing, it seems (from a psychological standpoint) easier to be noisy and into the game when you're standing as opposed to sitting.
EDIT: I agree 100% with bouje. Let's move onto something that isn't so over-discussed already.
I'd much rather be conversing about this than:
2. Who is better Denard or Tate
3. Pretty much anything we discussed pre-season
So let's feel blessed that we are 3-0 and that the biggest worries that we have right now are if fans are yelling enough right now!
We would've given vital body limbs to be crying about this three weeks ago.
side note: let's also be thankful we haven't been called the quietest 100k yet this year, the Big House seems significantly louder (though not WORLDS louder), and as far as making it a harder place to play, we're seemingly on the right track.
such a sense of entitlment, we wouldn't have this problem. Instead, you can't stand and cheer unless everyone else is? Okay, lets let the masses (of blues') decide how the individual can enjoy the game...Kinda BS.
But what are you going to do when:
1. Majority rules
2. As Section 1 pointed out these people give money to the University and so the University will cater to them to make sure that they are happy.
just wish things could be a little different.
Just remember how ya feel now when you're in "Section 1" someday. Hopefully through time it'll shift into a more raucous mindset. FWIW, those older people at PSU, LSU, and other great venues show that you don't have to be sub-30 or 40 to be crazy loud. I wish it was different too, though it has been loud so far this year.
And will be standing every second of every game. And obviously when I'm that old I'll be able to do whatever the hell I want.
And it's not so bad now.
you cant tell me this:
you can't tell me that wasn't loud
"Okay, lets let the masses (of blues') decide how the individual can enjoy the game"
but that is exactly what the person who is standing is trying to do. They want everyone to stand which decides how people can enjoy the game. I'm all for standing, but I get why people get upset.
You don't yell louder than me, I guarantee it, and I don't find that sitting up or down has any effect on my volume.
Did you....really....ever hear anyone make the argument "I gave more money so I should be able to sit and not contribute to the player's energy and well-being because I prefer to sit"
Really? How many times? Do I hear once? No, I don't.
The rule of thumb in Section 18 is clearly "be considerate of other ticketholders" and also "if the players are motioning you out of your seat, get up".
I'm not under any impression that my own posture has an effect on the outcome of the game, compared to say the speed training and judgment of the guys on the field.
yes actually I did hear that. right here in this thread: http://mgoblog.com/mgoboard/how-handle-down-front
also, it's not just the not standing up that's a problem, it that when people sit and don't want to stand, they don't yell either.
Be clear. If you're referring to me, I didn't say that. I said just the opposite.
Post #8 from that Comments thread:
QUOTE, in relevant part:
"I never said anything like that.
I didn't say that you can't be a real fan unless you're a major donor.
ON the other hand, you seem to be saying that you can't be a real fan unless you stnad up (without any need to) and block the view of people sitting behind you.
Who, I ask you, is the real antisocial asshole?
Then, Post # 69 from the same thread:
QUOTE, in full:
"Tell me guys, what 'entitlement' did I claim?
I haven't asked for anything from you guys, other than to let me see most of the game without having to stand up to see over or around you.
The only other thing that I asked for, was the respect and courtesy for people behind you who can't see if you are standing.
I didn't demand that the sutdents sit down. I didn't even demand that any of you sit down, neccessarily, outside of the student section. If you guys can find places in the stadium to stand and yell, I actually think that's great.
My one basic premise in this thread was that your saying 'Up in back!' to people who request 'Down in front!' was wrong. Is that what you mean by 'entitlement'?"
it seems to me the #1 reason you don't stand is because you don't want to block peoples' views. well, if people stood to begin with, they wouldn't have their view blocked! plus, i'll bet it would be more comfortable to stand more often since sitting a long time on those benches really takes a toll on your ass after a while!
I do stand, quite a lot, because I'm not all that different from you and, yeah, I get excited watching the team and I personally like to stand up. I walk 18 holes on the golf course on a regular basis. I'm fine with not only standing up for four hours, but also at the same time walking four or five miles, and hopefully breaking eighty during that four hours.
The other message thread didn't really speak to standing up and sitting down in general, or in moderation. It wasn't about the excitement involved in the game, when virtually the whole stadium rises to their feet (and when the roar of the crowd would make it pointless to try to yell "Down in front!" because no one would hear).
No -- the other message thread was premised on the guy who was standing at a time when someone behind him asked him to sit down. The thread started off with the idea that the response should be, "Up in back," and then some added insult related to Grecian formula...
So THAT was the starting point. And I still think I was and am right: that's not an appropriate response in that situation.
But beyond that, there seems to be a kind of an unspoken credo that is devoloping among former students and/or new grads. It seems to go something like this; we stood for the whole game when we were in the student section, and now that I'm over here in Section-whatever, using Grandpa's tickets, or now that I've gotten my own seats in Row 6, I'm gonna stand up too. Plus, we see them do it in South Bend, they do it in Madison (not really true) and they do it in Happy Valley. I'm going to stand, and everybody behind me can stand up too, or just not watch the game.
And that, to be honest with you, is what really bugs me. To do ANYTHING like the way they do things in South Bend. If they all stand for the whole game in South Bend, that seems to me to be a very good reason to NOT do it in Ann Arbor.
No, it is not going to work, to get the entire Michigan Stadium to stand for the duration of the game. Kids can't see if you do that. If kids are stood on benches, someone's going to fall and get hurt. If the Stadium effectively demands that all patrons stand for 4 hours, that's not going to work.
Again, I've said this as many times as I have disclaimed any special privileges as a donor (which never seems to be enough, no matter how many times I write it); I have no desire to tell the student section, or you, how to behave in the stadium. Go find yourself some tickets in a top row. Get yourself into the student section. Do whatever you want. Cheer as loudly as you can; I encourage it. Indeed, I suggested that one or more of you guys make a business case to Bill Martin or Joe Parker or Mrty Bodnar -- all smart guys who know how to operate the Stadium -- to see if you can find some kind of "standing" area. I really don't care. I do know that it will be a difficult case to make because there are so many fundamentally dangerous and inappropriate factors involved in establishing a "standing" policy in any Stadium.
You're misinterpreting the original post. You say:
"No -- the other message thread was premised on the guy who was standing at a time when someone behind him asked him to sit down. The thread started off with the idea that the response should be, "Up in back," and then some added insult related to Grecian formula..."
But as I explained, the guy in back didn't ask the gentleman who was standing to please sit down. He commanded him, in an angry angry command, "DOWN IN FRONT!". The commander was a real jerk, because as I said, the guy in front only stood occassionally when most were sitting, and even then he didn't stand for long. In my opinion, the fellow in back has issues.
So I started the original thread out of frustration over his demeanor, and my lack of ability - a la George Costanza - to come up with the witty one liner in reply to a jerk.
And fwiw, the Grecian formula comment was my lame attempt to say, in not so many words, "but your hair isn't even blue."
It means either "Please, would you mind siting down in front, because we can't see...", or "Sit down, punk; if you don't, the best outcome for you is that we will call the ushers, who will call the police. The other options will be worse for you."
It doesn't matter to the person who is saying, "Down in front." You can interpret it any way you want. The only important thing is that you sit down unless and until the whole stadium rises, or when there is nothing going on.
But it was clear at the time: it was the 'punk' version.
...and how it started.
This is what you wrote:
"how to handle "Down in Front!" Next time you're verbally assaulted with an angry "DOWN IN FRONT!" you are encouraged to retort in either of the following ways:
1. Don't turn around, just reply with "UP IN BACK!"
2. Do turn around, i.d. the aggressor, and remark "Wow, that grecian formula really does work."
That's it. That's what you wrote.
If you can be as loud and involved sitting as standing, good for you, though it would seem that (as I said earlier) standing (for many people) makes it much easier to be "into" the game. I won't say that you can't be involved sitting down because that's not true, but I still think it's easier to be involved standing up.
(Especially given how crammed the seats are, ha)
and we didnt really have a problem with standing. We stood for big 3rd downs or when a big play happened. Pretty much sat during regular gaming. Stood during parts of a big drive at one point. It was pretty much like every other game ive been to. Pro or College.
Sone old guy behind me made a comment at the beginning of the game about standing. But hey when the 70 rows in front of you stand, you dont have much choice if you want to see.
I agree with this. I always stand up on 3rd down, or any other big play downs, but then I sit. I still yell the entire time.
Obviously I'll stand if the players are waving their hands trying to pump the crowd up.
What the players on the field would want us to do? When they wave at the crowd I'll assume it means sit down from now on. This ovaltine is delicous!
It tastes like Metamucil.
This is a no win situation. Do they have sections for people who want to sit? If not maybe they should think about that. But there’s definitely a code of ethics and radical fandom that conflict.
I agree with Bray. Theres a huge sense of entitlement that I thought would have went away after getting our ass kicked last year. I thought that might show some fans not to take wins for granted. Unfortunatly we're just gonna have to wait til these people get too old to go to the game or die. I live in Dallas and I go to games at A&M, UT, OU, and LSU from time to time. At A&M if you want to see the game, the only time you can sit is at halftime. At LSU when the team is on offense people take their seats. But when they are on defense everyone is screamin their ass off. Is that too much to ask? Its fine with me if they want to sit when we're on offense, but when we are on D you need to get off your ass.
yep. thats exactly what i've been saying for months, but for some reason, people have to bitch and moan about it. and there is really no legitimate reason to not stand unless you have severe knee or leg problems. you got a small child? have them stand on the bench! when i was 8-9 and went to the games i stood on the benches and i was fine with it.
couldnt you just make noise?
Why do you have to stand up and yell? Im pretty sure sitting and yelling wont be any different from standing and yelling.
I do alot, except when you're the only one doing it in your section and the rest of the people around you are looking at your like you have 2 heads, it gets quite annoying. i just wish more people would do it by default instead of having to be told to do it.
I see that perhaps a majority are now in agreement with my original premise; that standing up just to stand -- or, much more importantly -- standing up when you have no need to stand and someonw behind you has asked you to please sit, is antisocial boorishness.
Re: your personal attack on me. Whatever. You think I care? I didn't mention alumni/donor/Victors Club status to impress anybody, or to claim any "entitlement," because I don't.
I mentiioned it only because some punks apparently think that the only way to show support for Michigan's football team and footbal program is to wear a bright yellow t-shirt and stand up the whole game. It was guys like you, who threw the first punch and attacked older alums in the mid-field sections; saying that we aren't supporting the team.
Trust me; my donations to the Athletic Department (and it's more than $10,000) are nothing to brag about. I think that $10 million is bragging territory; not $10,000.
Let me be absolutely clear with you: I don't propose to tell you what to do, or how to cheer. If there are places in the Stadium where you can find an area to stand for the whole game and not bother anybody, I truly think that's great. But if you are in a Section where you are blocking people behind you and being a nuisance, then you had better sit down. In my area of the Stadium, you will eventually get taken out by Ann Arbor police if you are enough of a nuisance.
And remember, that's how this debate started a couple of days ago; with the suggestion that not only should you, if asked to sit down, tell the people behind you, "Up in back!," but you should also insult them.
So there. Your Monday morning beat-down. Welcome to the real world. Outside of the student section.
"I see that perhaps a majority are now in agreement with my original premise; that standing up just to stand -- or, much more importantly -- standing up when you have no need to stand and someonw behind you has asked you to please sit, is antisocial boorishness."
Saying it does not make it so.
"Re: your personal attack on me. Whatever. You think I care? I didn't mention alumni/donor/Victors Club status to impress anybody, or to claim any "entitlement," because I don't."
Yes you did.
"I mentiioned it only because some punks apparently think that the only way to show support for Michigan's football team and footbal program is to wear a bright yellow t-shirt and stand up the whole game."
And some think that tough actin tinactin is the appropriate smell for their entire house. Most of those people tend to sit the entire game and make the stadium exceedingly quiet. Which category do you fall into?
"Trust me; my donations to the Athletic Department (and it's more than $10,000) are nothing to brag about. I think that $10 million is bragging territory; not $10,000."
But you're not boasting. Because you're not going to talk about how much you donate. Even though it's more than 10,000. You're not going to talk about it though. The 10,000.
"Let me be absolutely clear with you: I don't propose to tell you what to do, or how to cheer."
Yes, you do. And we are telling you how to cheer as well.
"If there are places in the Stadium where you can find an area to stand for the whole game and not bother anybody, I truly think that's great."
Unless you are aged 24 and have consumed alcohol on that day. And are in favor of mixed race marriages.
"In my area of the Stadium, you will eventually get taken out by Ann Arbor police if you are enough of a nuisance."
Because he is the law man. 51 year old alum that regularly posts on mgoblog is going to KICK. YOUR. ASS.
"And remember, that's how this debate started a couple of days ago; with the suggestion that not only should you, if asked to sit down, tell the people behind you, "Up in back!," but you should also insult them."
Because, as we all know, "down in front" is commonly found in Judith Martin's "A Citizen's Guide to Civility."
"So there. Your Monday morning beat-down. Welcome to the real world. Outside of the student section."
Shouldn't you be at work, working? I mean, you clearly have a long way to go before you can talk about the money you're donating to the AD. Which you don't talk about.
If that was your Monday morning beatdown, this is your Monday afternoon apple sauce feeding.