Spread to Pro Style Offense

Submitted by Black Socks on
This idea has been floating around in my head the last few days and I couldn't formulate a satisfactory answer. Has there ever been an historical power that switched from spread to pro style and had success? And how long did it take them? Recently more teams have been converting from traditional to spread but not the other way around. FWIW I think we are going to have success with whatever offense we run as long as we have athletes and execution. This is not a dig on our coaches.

AMazinBlue

November 30th, 2009 at 11:22 PM ^

You have to admit that under the circumstances, this is a loaded question. From a scheme standpoint, it has to be easier to teach a more basic offense with less reliance on the QB and RBs to make reads to make a play successful.

Bando Calrissian

November 30th, 2009 at 11:25 PM ^

Seems to me a pro-style offense with spread-style players would be a LOT more successful than a spread-style offense with pro-style players. We've seen how the transition goes in one direction, and I tend to believe that if we were to go back, or even do some kind of hybrid offense, we wouldn't see the likes of Threet trying to run an option read.

In reply to by tomhagan

tomhagan

November 30th, 2009 at 11:57 PM ^

Ohh you poor koolaid babies negging me because I recognize that Rich Rod sucks nuts as a coach at Michigan... Keep negging me...I dont fucking care... but what will you do when he is replaced with a good coach? (crickets) and you know it. You KNOW it.

Undefeated dre…

December 1st, 2009 at 12:07 AM ^

Imagine RR had stayed at WVU the past two years. I imagine he'd have a decent to great record, and would be a prime candidate for every coaching job out there. He'd be a great coach again! His record at U-M is his record, and it's disappointing. I'm pretty sure it will get better. But what 'good' coach would replace him -- and what makes that 'good' coach a good coach?

raleighwood

December 1st, 2009 at 12:58 PM ^

I've heard it said that a good coach can beat you with his own players one week and turn around and beat you with your own players the next week. I think that Sweater Vest and Lloyd probably fell into this situation a couple of times (2001, 2005...). Adaptability is probably a key ingredient for a good coach. Tressel was adaptable between Boeckman (drop back) and Pryor (mobile) last year. Kelly is adaptable to the varying styles of Pike and Collaros this year. Whatever it takes to put the best team on the field and win the game.

Tim Waymen

December 1st, 2009 at 12:15 AM ^

And what will you do if he does well? Hey, did you actually wait for people to answer before updating your post with the "crickets" part? That was very considerate of you to give people a chance to answer. Holding out for the possibility that Rich Rodriguez can turn things around isn't kool-aid. We don't know that he will, just as you don't know that he won't. You recognize shit. No one's negging you for "seeing the truth" or merely having a different view; people are negging you because you're being an asshole who is essentially gloating about the season going poorly. YIf you need any further explanation for why people keep negging you, then you're obviously an idiot.

jwfsouthpaw

December 1st, 2009 at 12:42 AM ^

First, it's interesting that you qualify your statement that "Rich Rod sucks nuts as a head coach" by adding "at Michigan." So he doesn't suck nuts as a coach elsewhere? His problem is limited to the Michigan Wolverines? Is Ann Arbor his kryptonite? Do the winged helmets somehow impair his coaching ability? Second, if a so-called "good coach" replaces Rich Rodriguez (whenever that may happen), Michigan fans will be excited to continue cheering for their team. Obviously. Was this ever in doubt? Are you somehow implying that Michigan fans would rather see Rich Rodriguez achieve mediocrity (or worse, as you would probably say) than see another coach achieve success? So many questions.

Eyebrowse

December 1st, 2009 at 8:38 AM ^

Hang in there Tom! Perhaps your "strictly business...Not personal." tagline should reverse itself, then people might have some sympathy for your overly-emotional my-life-depends-on-Michigan-winning-every-game mentality some thought. Or not.

fatbastard

December 2nd, 2009 at 8:00 PM ^

I just read on another thread how you were banned along with KofB after a meltdown . . . . Yet, there you are. Did Brian make you an offer you could not refuse?

Blue_Bull_Run

November 30th, 2009 at 11:44 PM ^

I was actually thinking the exact same thing recently. I believe Illinois next QB (the kid with the 'Bama bangs) is more of a pro style QB. I was thinking that it would be quite a sign of the times if the schools that first went to the spread in order to equalize their lack of talent suddenly turned back to the pro style. If that happened, then I think we would need a "Moneyball" style diary about how the popularity of the spread made it easier for "bad" schools to recruit pro style players.

Tater

November 30th, 2009 at 11:45 PM ^

The NFL has its own version of the spread; it's called the "two-minute offense." And it's no accident that it is a lot more successful at scoring than the base offenses are.

ndhillon

November 30th, 2009 at 11:48 PM ^

With Jeremy Gallon in the fold, we could run the A-11 and put up 30. Tate - Brady Gallon/Odoms - Welker Roy Roundtree - Roy Roundtree Gallon - Every great NFL player that ever lived With all those comparisons being 100% true (and they are, look it up) we are already on pace to run a pro-style offense that mimics the New England Football Patriots.

gobluesasquatch

November 30th, 2009 at 11:55 PM ^

I think part of the question depends on what type of "spread" offense you are running. If you run something like Joe Tiller ran at Purdue, or the Patriots run in the NFL, then moving toward a more "pro-style" offense shouldn't be a very hard transition. In both of those offenses, the QB main responsibility is passing the ball. He doesn't have to worry about option reads anything like that. It will be interesting to see what schools like Illinois and Florida do next year to accommodate their more "pro-style" quarterbacks (pocket passers - artillery shell launchers). I think an interesting example is Penn State, where Paterno has attempted to change his offense in recent years based on the talent he has. I also would like to consider guys like Colt McCoy, who could easily run a spread offense or a pro style offense. I guess some other guys that come to mind might have been Steve Young, Dennis Dixon (but gosh, before he got injured, how exciting was he), Troy Smith, Donovan McNabb ... etc. If you have them at QB, I think the transition either way might be a bit easier. As for the two minute offense - typically those are more successful as a function of the defensive strategy, particularly at the end of a game where they might be willing to give up yardage that keeps the clock moving.

MCalibur

December 1st, 2009 at 1:05 AM ^

The Hurry Up offense also works at the end of half and in the middle of quarters for that matter. It exploits match-ups and defensive packages no matter how much clock is left. As for end of games, defenses give up the sidelines way too easily to be focused on keeping the clock moving; if that were their goal they'd deny the sideline and keep the ball inside. What you say is probably true to a certain extent but I think D's, especially non-elite ones, are just flat out getting smoked.

Hoken's Heroes

December 1st, 2009 at 12:16 AM ^

...execution, as you mentioned, is key. And that's what UM has not been competent in doing the last two years. The only thing the team has been doing is executing each other by playing such sloppy football. Bad tackling, bad ball handling, bad blocking. You can't win when you execute bad football.

Jeffro

December 1st, 2009 at 12:21 AM ^

There are many variations of the spread. I'm sure a passing spread like Oklahoma would have a much easier transition to a pro style offense compared to the spread option at Michigan. On the flip side both Pat White and Steve Slaton are in the NFL with Pat getting serious consideration as an NFL QB.

formerlyanonymous

December 1st, 2009 at 12:29 AM ^

The zone read is the only thing that is difficult in the transition to spread style offenses. That extra read offers several more opportunities for an offense to screw the play up between making a read, making a handoff while reading the end, then having a less quick quarterback (at least usually when compared to the running back) run the ball. Our non-zone read running plays work just like any other pro-style offensive runs. Our pass plays aren't that different (bubble screen compared to more HB screens). The only difference is being in the shotgun to set up the read play.

fatbastard

December 2nd, 2009 at 7:57 PM ^

there are a lot more differences than that. The passing game is much more geared to short passes and "long handoffs" which can actually come off a read. It also de-emphasizes complexity and downfield progression reads by the quarterback. In that respect, tall quarterbacks who have an advantage in a pro-style system are not an asset in a spread unless they are also able to run. Also, the run game is totally different. There are basically no plays with a lead blocking fullback (nor did we under DeBord the last couple of years), and the running backs look for cracks in the zone instead of hitting holes (at least most of the time). You also already said the shotgun. So, yeah, it's basically a wholesale change, top to bottom.

letsgoblue04

December 1st, 2009 at 1:03 AM ^

this year... The results were terrible: 117th in YPG, 112 in yards per play, from 25 ppg to 16 ppg. Not that EMU is a traditional power or anything. Alabama would have had a neat passing spread if Mike Price had stuck; that would have been fun to see.

geno

December 1st, 2009 at 1:13 AM ^

If Carlos and Minor did not get hurt two years in a row , there is a really good chance RR wins several more games , and suddenly is a lot smarter . The lack of a running game against OSU allowed their Safeties to play over the top ,something our Safeties seem to not know how to do . WE need a couple of Tailbacks bigger than V. Smith , and that could make a world of difference . Jim Harbaugh , bah humbug . Les Miles BRRRRR.

ijohnb

December 1st, 2009 at 7:54 AM ^

could have had more immediate success if he would have gone to a more standard four wide type of spread with Threet while sprinking in some read option principles with wild cat formations and the such. However, I think he knew the actual transition to his offense was going to be a nightmare and just wanted to get the show on the road. The RR conversion was more than just changing offenses, however, his mission(impossible) was really to change Michigan's entire mentality toward football. As to spread to pro-style, MSU is really the only one that comes to mind. Florida State kind of converted their offense to really the first version of the modern day spread with Charlie Ward and then went back to more a pro-style. Tressel uses some principles from both depending on personnel.

jmblue

December 1st, 2009 at 11:32 AM ^

a more standard four wide type of spread with Threet while sprinking in some read option principles Isn't that more or less what we did last year? We ran the read option considerably less often with Threet than we did this year with Forcier. I think the bigger problem was that Threet/Sheridan just weren't very good.