So...aren't we running a 3-3-5 this year?
IIRC '3-3-5' was a four letter word last year to the Michigan fan base/alumni and may have pressured RR into not promoting a D-coordinator from within his own defensive staff and sticking with the 3-3-5 Base D philosophy.
This year though...M hires Gerg and there is talk of a 'spinner', which then turned into "no, Stevie is a straight up SAM". Ok...so we basically took a DB and have him as a LB (3-4) but with the understanding he can cover the slot when need be (er...3-3-5?) Also, when asked what our base D is, instead of just always answering "we run a 3-4" we sometimes get "we run a 3-4" and other times get "we run a 3-3----shit, I mean...SCHEME DOESN'T MATTER, PLAYERS DO..."
Important to note...I DON'T CARE if we run 4-3, 3-4, 3-3-5...I'm sure RR's staff knows what is best for our base D. I just kinda found it interesting that it's possible RR, in a round-a-bout manner just installed a 3-3-5 Base D without pissing anybody off...
(Side Note: I still never head a reason why Graves and Dequinta Jones went elsewhere. Did they leave knowing a 3 man front would be the base D with whichever new D coordinator RR picked? Or they left for other reasons, leaving GERG to evaluate the talent and say...we gotta run a 3 man front...)
thoughts?
August 10th, 2009 at 8:21 PM ^
I don't think we have 5 DB's just because Stevie Brown was a DB last year. From what I know of it, the "spinner," although it is a hybrid, is much more of a LB than a DB. And the guys who will be playing it in years to come will be guys out of the LB corps not out of the DBs. The LB coach will be in charge of the position, not the DB coach, etc.
August 10th, 2009 at 8:21 PM ^
The de/lb hybrid is extremely similar to Lloyd/Bo's old "Rush linebacker" (think James Hall) - in other words, they're largely a DE that's capable of covering a TE.
August 10th, 2009 at 8:56 PM ^
capable but usually unsuccessful
August 11th, 2009 at 1:55 AM ^
edit: originally posted thinking you were describing Stevie's position. Moot post. But a point of clarification: the DE/LB hybrid is Mouton, yes?
August 11th, 2009 at 9:34 AM ^
This is what I was assuming, based on the fall roster. If you look at the roster, we have 31 scholarship players on defense--6 listed at DT, 3 at DE, 4 at OLB, 9 at LB, 4 at S and 5 at CB.
To me, this suggests the typical lineup will be 3 DL (2 DT, 1 DE), 1 "hybrid" called the OLB, 3 LB and 4 DB (2 S and 2 CB). This OLB seems to be the same as the old RLB position made famous by James Hall.
The OLBs on the roster are Marell Evans, Brandon Herron, Steve Watson and Craig Roh.
August 10th, 2009 at 8:23 PM ^
From what I understand, it's a 4-3 under.
- There are 4 regular d-linemen.
- This is 1 hybrid DE/LB, who, technically counts as an LB
- 1 regular LB
- 1 hybrid LB/S, who counts as an LB.
- regular secondary
August 10th, 2009 at 8:25 PM ^
Close - 3 regular linemen, 1 DE/LB hyrbid, 2 regular LB, 1 hybrid LB/S.
August 10th, 2009 at 8:27 PM ^
But the term "LB/S hybrid: is what's causing confusion. He's linebacker, that's all. He's an OLB. It's just that they'll be looking for speed and coverage ability out of that position.
August 10th, 2009 at 8:54 PM ^
Yep! You're right.
This post from awhile ago is very helpful:
http://mgoblog.com/content/what-it-its-it
It really is kind of a hybrid.... b/c while it is a 3-4, based on what Brian says in this post, it's a 1 gap defensive line scheme (most of the time, unless the DE/LB drops into coverage) whereas 3-4s a lot of the time are 2 gap schemes.
However, at the end of the day, it is a 3-4. The hybrid DE/LB is an LB, as is the hybrid LB/S, and the other 2 regular LBs.
August 10th, 2009 at 10:08 PM ^
That pretty much answers everything, thanks...
Seeing the USC pics puts it in a clearer perspective
August 10th, 2009 at 8:29 PM ^
At my highschool we called this position "The Hero". I started there as a senior. Basically in a 5-2 it's the weakside DE. In a 4-3 it's the weakside OLB. This position requires a bit more intellectual capacity than the rest of the DL, and the other OLB/LB (OLB in 4-3 LB in 5-2). (I'm not bragging, but let's just say I made it into Michigan, and most kids from my highschool went to Central/Western, MSU etc.) In the 5-2 you have contain (keep everything inside), the qb on an option (assuming the cb isn't stunting, if he is then your responsibility doesn't change). That's basically it from the DE standpoint. Obviously also from the DE standpoint you need to know your role in stunt packages (whether that be crashing on the OT while the DT goes around and takes your responsibility "switch" etc). Now for the OLB responsibilites. Basically you read the guard (like any linebacker does) to see if hes pass blocking off the snap or run blocking. You take the guard on (inside shoulder or out depending on your gap responsibility) in the run case. In the pass case you have the flats and curl (basically five yard back drop five yard out drop).
I think that pretty much covers it. O, sorry about my grammar and other errors. I was a math major.
Cheers
August 11th, 2009 at 9:03 AM ^
I don't think you understand this defense very well.
August 10th, 2009 at 8:31 PM ^
IIRC '3-3-5' was a four letter word last year to the Michigan fan baseI could pull up some zombie threads supporting or denying this, I mean the other threads I pulled up are all falling off the front page and I wouldn't want people thinking that I let "my shtick" go. I was thinking more along the lines of Crable than James Hall, but I think they might have been the same position just with different individual strengths.
August 10th, 2009 at 8:56 PM ^
It would have been pretty clear at the spring game if we were running a 3-3-5. Generally, that defensive front is run with one deep safety, and IIRC, they were lining up mostly out of a 2 deep shell. Thats one difference anyway.
August 10th, 2009 at 9:06 PM ^
Basically we have three lineman, a LB/DE, two true linebackers, a LB/Safety and four defensive backs. This year we have Stevie Brown at the LB/Safety spot so we really have three D-Lineman, three Linebackers, and five Defensive Backs. After this year though we will have either Mike Jones or Brandin Hawthorne at the Linebacker/Safety spot and they are more Linebackers than Defensive Backs so it will be more of a a 3-4 look.
August 10th, 2009 at 9:11 PM ^
Just because he is a former defensive back does not mean that we have 5 defensive backs. He's a linebacker. Period.
August 10th, 2009 at 9:41 PM ^
sure that RR doesn't care about fan opinion in hiring a DC. After all, it's his job on the line, and winning is more important than short term fan criticism.
August 10th, 2009 at 9:43 PM ^
From talking with Barwis we will have 11 players that are in the mold of blue sharks playing defense.
August 11th, 2009 at 9:08 AM ^
The 3-3-5 generally refers to the "3-3-5 stack" which this defense most definitely is not. In the 3-3-5 stack, you have three defensive linemen; the three linebackers are lined up directly behind each of those DL; you have two corners and one deep safety; and the two strong safeties are at LB depth just outside the tackle/tight end.
When we moved Brandon Graham from LB to DL, did we keep referring to him as a LB? Nope. When we moved John Ferrara from DT to OG, did we keep referring to him as a DT? Nope. I'm not sure why some of you are so insistent that Brown will still be a safety.