So, is this defense good or not?
I can’t remember the last time a Michigan team has been this confusing halfway through the season. The offense has a lot of talent but just doesn’t seem to be able to get it together right now. And defense we have had a terrible performance , meh performances and have looked dominant at times.
This weekend is test #3 against a real opponent. We flunked the first, then aced the second. PSU does not have an overpowering offense. I think the defense needs to hold them to 17 or less.
October 15th, 2019 at 1:29 PM ^
Yes, it's good. We've become spoiled by having an all-world defense capable of carrying a limping offense.
This defense is more than good enough to do some damage when paired with an equally good offense.
October 15th, 2019 at 1:37 PM ^
when paired with an equally good offense.
Gotta get me one of those!
October 15th, 2019 at 1:39 PM ^
When was the last time Michigan had an S&P+ balanced offense and defense? Maybe Hoke's first year? They had a pretty good offense and a pretty good defense.
October 15th, 2019 at 1:58 PM ^
2016. That offense was legit, until Speight got hurt.
October 15th, 2019 at 2:05 PM ^
Offense was S*P+ 35th while defense was 3rd. That seems fairly unbalanced to me.
October 15th, 2019 at 3:58 PM ^
We averaged 40ppg that year. Much like the Tigers in World Series I kind of knew I better enjoy it while it lasted.
October 15th, 2019 at 11:52 PM ^
the offense has given a lot of short fields with their turnovers so given that, the defense has played well. It may not be great as others have said, but it's definitely good.
October 15th, 2019 at 1:31 PM ^
It's good. We won't see if it's elite until OSU.
October 15th, 2019 at 1:32 PM ^
Name checks out.
October 15th, 2019 at 4:00 PM ^
An elite defense doesn't let Wisconsin do to us what they did.
The defense is fine, whatever. They're good enough to stay in games against everyone but elite teams.
October 15th, 2019 at 6:48 PM ^
The D's biggest weakness was at DT, and that's been majorly upgraded with the return of Dwumfour. Plus there were a lot of pieces still coming together - McGrone hadn't yet emerged, D. Hill wasn't established as viable, A. Thomas recovering, guys getting used to playing together.
If everyone key stays healthy this unit is looking to be on the brink of elite. If the O can do it's share - not turn the ball over in plus territory, sustain drives and burn clock - this D can play with anyone. I think they will be much improved against Ohio this year.
If M somehow makes it to the B1G champ game, I think we would see a very different result in a rematch w/ Wisconsin.
October 15th, 2019 at 7:59 PM ^
Agreed. I see the rematch game being an even matched battle if we make it that far. Just wish I could feel that way about THE game
October 15th, 2019 at 4:51 PM ^
... and OSU runs crossing routes all day long again because Don Brown (who is a good coach otherwise) is a one trick pony.
October 15th, 2019 at 1:34 PM ^
Uh.........yes...........er.....no..............maybe???
October 15th, 2019 at 3:52 PM ^
What would you say, Drevno did here ?
October 15th, 2019 at 6:35 PM ^
Well, he didn't deal with the God Damn recruits, that's for sure!
October 15th, 2019 at 1:34 PM ^
We've faced one truly good team and the D got smoked. We've faced one up tempo spread team and the D struggled as always.
The defense is good, it's good enough dominate bad teams. I have doubts that it's good enough to hold up against good offenses or a more talented Illinois that's not on their 3rd string RS Fr QB.
October 15th, 2019 at 1:46 PM ^
I hear what you are saying but you get "smoked" when your defense is on the field too often and for most of the game because your offense can't keep the ball for any amount of time.
Please go to a football field and do sixty 10yd or 20yd sprints and tell me how tired you are. =)
When a defense can't catch rest it's a recipe for "smoked". Also Don even said they did many things that were very uncharacteristic of how they normally play. Many players out of position and not playing their proper roll.
If we could get some balance it will drastically change outcomes.
October 15th, 2019 at 3:05 PM ^
Frankly we looked shaky defensively the whole game against Wisconsin. They marched down the field on their opening possession and scored.
October 15th, 2019 at 5:16 PM ^
Our interior line was lacking its best player. That was a shit performance, but it’s not indiciative of the current D.
October 15th, 2019 at 5:28 PM ^
That's fair. I just don't think that game is an example of a strong defense getting tired and finally breaking.
October 15th, 2019 at 6:38 PM ^
You’re right. It was an example of a defense that did almost nothing correctly. They were so gap unsound and the tackling was terrible. I doubt we beat Wisconsin if we play them this week, but it’s hard not to think it would look a lot less bad.
October 15th, 2019 at 5:22 PM ^
It wasn't that the defense just looked shaky. They were physically getting beat in one-on-one match-ups from the drop. Injuries were a factor on the DL and Brown has since added some wrinkles to get different match-ups, but in that game Wisconsin's OL was simply better than Michigan's front 7. Maybe WI's OL peaked early and Michigan is improving, but on that Saturday, they were clearly the better unit.
October 15th, 2019 at 4:03 PM ^
Maybe back in the day this was true. Not now when there's a 10 minute commercial every 5 minutes of game time.
October 15th, 2019 at 4:16 PM ^
It’s a 3 minute commercial. And I’m sure they do help the players catch their breathe somewhat.
October 15th, 2019 at 7:58 PM ^
Looks like a typical Pony defense. Strangle bad offenses, get owned by very good offenses.
Hoping he can hold TUOS under 60.
But out of position, and all that...
October 15th, 2019 at 1:35 PM ^
Troll. Obviously good. Many would contend very good. ESPN SP+ shows as number 3 in country. Trolls like to troll regardless though.
October 15th, 2019 at 1:37 PM ^
Not a troll, but thank you, I’ve been looking for these ratings.
October 15th, 2019 at 1:45 PM ^
Yeah we've got a decent ranking so far and while the defense has had some issues here and there (and then the UW debacle), the challenge is that we'll face some pretty good offenses the next few weeks;
PSU: #10
ND: #18
Indiana: #23
Ohio State: #6
Wisconsin for comparison is currently #16 on offense.
Meanwhile our middling offense (#53) will be playing some very good defenses
PSU #10
MSU: #8
Ohio State: #4
and we need them to, you know, score points to win.
October 15th, 2019 at 1:56 PM ^
^^^ This
It's genuinely hard for me to qualify the performance of our defense because we've only played one good offense (and got shredded). The next two weeks, in my mind, will be the litmus test for the defensive unit and whether or not they've grown / adjusted / improved since UW.
October 15th, 2019 at 4:15 PM ^
And Iowa wasn’t a hugh test now? 1 yrd net yards on the ground and hold them to 3?
October 15th, 2019 at 4:23 PM ^
I don't entirely know how to interpret your post. But - no - I would not consider Iowa's offense a huge test.
For frame of reference, a "huge test" is - at minimum - a top 25 offense. Iowa, like Michigan, doesn't crack the top 50.
October 15th, 2019 at 4:37 PM ^
What was their rank before they got bitch slapped?
October 15th, 2019 at 4:26 PM ^
Iowa is tiers below Wisconsin and our upcoming opponents
October 15th, 2019 at 1:35 PM ^
Yeah, good and terrible.
[Edit - not calling the defense terrible - just like quoting Coming to America - no clue if the defense is good or not - leaning toward probably]
October 15th, 2019 at 3:17 PM ^
(Throws Chicken Bone at Shea Patterson) I thought it was the trash!
October 15th, 2019 at 1:36 PM ^
Is the performance against Illinois concerning or just one of those things? I know the offense played a part in giving up the points, but it was still unnerving to see a weak offense like Illinois putting up TDs in the 2nd half.
October 15th, 2019 at 1:38 PM ^
Michigan took the second half of that game off. Illinois was sandwiched in between Iowa, Penn State, and Notre Dame in consecutive weeks. I would not take anything from that second half except for that Michigan was able to turn it back on both sides of the ball when it needed to.
October 15th, 2019 at 4:00 PM ^
Most of the starters still being in the game isn't "turning it off" to me. You can certainly judge the team by taking their most aggressive and dialed in performance - but when we see the exact opposite happening in a bunch of games, that is not an accurate predictor of future performance.
October 15th, 2019 at 4:02 PM ^
This is, in my judgment and rewatching the games, precisely the problem. Guys are taking plays off constantly. One blown assignment can be the difference between success and failure. Against Illinois there were multiple instances where guys waved at the play, as I’m confident UFR will reveal.
I find it concerning, and it pops up repeatedly. Unless they can reverse what seem like entrenched habits, they’ll get exposed. There has to be more accountability.
October 15th, 2019 at 4:35 PM ^
I lean towards one of those things.
Two of Michigan's best defenders were out in Paye and Lavert Hill and Metellus had a couple big mistakes that are uncharacteristic. That probably explains a less than stellar performance against the pass. And M was good against a good run offense.
They gave up only 250 yards in quite a few drives so overall it wasn't that bad of a performance.
This isn't a top 3 defense like SP+ has them, but they're pretty good.
October 15th, 2019 at 1:37 PM ^
It's probably not the top-3 SP+ it's listed at, but it's likely top-10. It's a safe assumption to say Don Brown's defenses have a pretty high floor.
October 15th, 2019 at 1:38 PM ^
Its good. There are a few weaknesses that select teams will be able to exploit but they will put up a winnable performance against most teams on the schedule.
Who was test #2? I guess Iowa is a real team, but they don't have a real offense.
October 15th, 2019 at 1:40 PM ^
It depends how you define good.
We are better than most defenses across the country. We are able to either slow or completely stop crappy or mediocre offenses. So, yes, we are good.
However, we don't have the depth or experience to shut down top offenses such as Wisco or OSU. We have athletes, but we don't have the level of athletes on D that Clemson has had in recent years. So, by that level of comparison, no, we are not good.
That said, with the exception of OSU, there isn't a team on our schedule for which our defense should not be enough to win the game, assuming a functional offense.
October 15th, 2019 at 1:47 PM ^
Even great defenses struggle to shutdown elite offenses. It’s the just the way the game is played now. Alabama had an elite D last year and got gashed by Clemson.
Elite college defenses have weaknesses and will give up points to elite offenses.
October 15th, 2019 at 2:36 PM ^
"However, we don't have the depth or experience to shut down top offenses such as Wisco or OSU. We have athletes, but we don't have the level of athletes on D that Clemson has had in recent years. So, by that level of comparison, no, we are not good."
This is nonsensical. A good defense is not going to stop a great offense.
What you have done is:
1) Well I see that our defense is unequivocally good by all metrics but I want to be argumentative so
2) I'm going to write the following "So, by that level of comparison" and
3) compare it to great, which was not the question, to
4) arrive that the question remains whether our defense is indeed good.
October 15th, 2019 at 1:44 PM ^
It will likely get lit up by a good offense on the road. Generally, this is what happens: 2017 Penn State, 2018 Notre Dame for a half, 2018 Ohio State, 2019 Wisconsin.
Not sure how good Penn State's offense is this year.
Harbaugh's struggles on the road are what will keep him from reaching the peak here and unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be any indication that he will be able to fix whatever it is that inflicts his teams once they leave Ann Arbor.
October 15th, 2019 at 1:44 PM ^
Can't be missing your best "Jimmy's and Joe's" and expect to be elite on a consistent basis - no LH and no KP and Illinois made adjustments and exposed match-ups....it happens at this level. This D is not elite but it will compete - it's up the offense to sustain drives, put points on the board and not put our D in precarious short-field situations.