Reminder that covid symptoms can strike college athletes (or anyone) weeks after testing positive
Example case: New Mexico WR finally cleared to play again after suffering from covid
WR Jordan Kress tested positive but was asymptomatic for weeks after - then had serious symptoms and evidence of myocarditis. Thankfully, he has recovered sufficiently to return to play - but should serve as a warning to everyone that it can be a long term issue for anyone.
Stay safe everyone and take stock of what & who you have in your lives now.
October 29th, 2020 at 8:53 AM ^
Very good point and good to hear he's doing well now and recovered
October 29th, 2020 at 8:59 AM ^
I have zero idea what to take away from the recent findings that heart issues aren't highly correlated with covid in these college athletes. A few months ago, the Penn State docs were saying like a third of recovering athletes were exhibiting myocarditis. The pessimist in me thinks we'll all be sorry for willing a football season into existence: kids are going to get sick, and the worst effects may not manifest until much later...
October 29th, 2020 at 9:12 AM ^
And how many of those kids would've gotten sick anyways if the season was cancelled?
I don't think there is any evidence, at least in the B10, that football players are being put at a higher risk of exposure than the average student.
October 29th, 2020 at 12:51 PM ^
This post is more about what is the appropriate time for quarantine & recovery periods.
The arguement about risk regarding athletes vs normal population (both contagion risk as well as complication risk) is different.
October 29th, 2020 at 9:13 AM ^
It means that heart issues aren't highly correlated with COVID.
Myocarditis is a viral disease, any number of viruses can cause it. It is not solely a COVID effect.
October 29th, 2020 at 12:10 PM ^
Good to know during this any number of viruses pandemic
October 29th, 2020 at 9:14 AM ^
I think they are better protected while with a football program. Their protocols are way stricter than what us normal people deal with. I could be completely wrong though.
October 29th, 2020 at 9:46 AM ^
About 80% of Americans have never been tested for Covid at all, so yeah, what we're asking athletes to go through is definitely a lot stricter.
The other thing is that our behavior is driven by incentives, and football players have a profound incentive to not test positive, since it will cost them playing time and possibly cost their team the right to play at all. Most other college-age people have no concrete reason to fear infection and don't care to get themselves tested.
October 29th, 2020 at 12:03 PM ^
That Penn State doctor backtracked on the 33% number. He never did any test, he "heard" it from other Doctors. Then went to state not one athlete had myocarditis at Penn state.
https://sports.yahoo.com/big-ten-covid-19-positive-athletes-one-third-have-myocarditis-penn-state-doctor-164111708.html
Dr. Sebastianelli was asked by a local school board to discuss high school preparations and precautions for holding sporting events during the pandemic and the potential impact of COVID-19 on the health of student-athletes. During his discussion with board members, he recalled initial preliminary data that had been verbally shared by a colleague on a forthcoming study, which unbeknownst to him at the time had been published at a lower rate. The research was not conducted by Dr. Sebastianelli or Penn State. Dr. Sebastianelli wishes to clarify this point, and apologize for any confusion.
“Additionally, some have inferred his comments may have been related directly to Penn State student athletes. At this time, there have been no cases of myocarditis in COVID-19 positive student-athletes at Penn State. For questions related to the myocarditis study, please contact the study investigators.”
October 29th, 2020 at 9:04 AM ^
Again with this!!... guess a broken clock is even correct twice a day!
And why aren't you starting a new thread every time someone like Cam Newton returns from covid to play again?!
October 29th, 2020 at 9:16 AM ^
You're right. The fact that some people recover means that the increased risk of long lasting side effects are meaningless!
I've said it before here, but my 36 year old coworker with no comorbidities got it in March, was bed bound for 3 weeks, couldn't resume physical activity for an additional 6 weeks, and still gets week-long fevers of 102 about once a month. It is the number 3 killer in the US and there is still much we don't know about its longterm impacts on health.
This virus does not fuck around.
October 29th, 2020 at 9:25 AM ^
You can say that about literally any virus. The fucking common cold can lead to myocarditis. A cold sore can lead to a life-threatening brain infection. These are viruses that no one gave any thought to before.
We're not halting the spread of this thing until a vaccine comes out. Wear a mask, do your best to social distance, but go about your daily lives.
October 29th, 2020 at 9:45 AM ^
Name one game that was cancelled or postponed due to a flu outbreak.
...
...
...
Pandemic reality versus irrationalism in the form of downplaying reasoning. Why? The thought they we have to be tough as humans against a microscopic virus that doesn’t care about bravado or posturing.
Let’s review the general facts: Covid is more contagious than the flu, more systemic in impact, longer lasting vascular issues, not just respiratory, causes brain fog, causes viral pneumonia, causes a higher percentage of myocarditis, causes blood clots, and is spread asymptomatically. Thus, teams cancelling games when players get it, and Big Ten deciding to be safe.
October 29th, 2020 at 9:57 AM ^
I mean, that's your reasoning? We've had a vaccine for the flu for several decades now so yeah obviously games aren't being cancelled because of that. Again, those "facts" you listed can be applied to many other viruses that no one gave two shits about before.
It's not about toughness or bravado. I wear my mask in public, it's a minor inconvenience and I think the people who don't are selfish assholes. But I'm also not changing my daily routine because of the very slim chance that I might get some sort of long lasting, life altering effect from this thing. Which, again, I could get from any number of viruses.
October 29th, 2020 at 1:10 PM ^
Whenever the vaccine comes out i'm sure it will be 100% effective just like the flu.
October 29th, 2020 at 10:40 AM ^
"We're not halting the spread of this thing until a vaccine comes out." I hope you're wrong because it is likely the economy won't recover until the virus spread is contained.
There are methods to control the virus spread that we are not using. It is a national shame.
October 29th, 2020 at 1:54 PM ^
*International shame* since it's not just the US that has uncontrollable spread right now. Huge parts of the European Union are having problems with exponential growth right now too.
October 29th, 2020 at 10:48 AM ^
A) the common cold isn't the number 3 killer in the US.
B) many countries have halted the spread of the virus and largely returned to normal life. We are not halting it because we aren't willing to.
My childhood friend's dad died of it and now my aunt and uncle are hospitalized. Just because our country has waved the white flag doesn't mean that this is as benign as the common cold. Nor does it mean that we couldn't and still can't do more to protect the vulnerable among us.
October 29th, 2020 at 1:50 PM ^
Really? Which countries? France and Germany just reinstituted nationwide lockdowns, so no they have not halted the spread of the virus. Not gonna happen, especially here where it's already very widespread, without a vaccine.
October 29th, 2020 at 2:50 PM ^
https://www.endcoronavirus.org/countries
Thailand, Vietnam, Australia, many others.
October 29th, 2020 at 6:08 PM ^
I like how people point out that island countries, like Japan, New Zealand, Australia, and South Korea (not technically an island, but effectively so) have contained the virus. I wonder why?
October 29th, 2020 at 10:45 PM ^
Yeah, the islands of Thailand and Vietnam have such natural protection from covid.
October 29th, 2020 at 10:08 AM ^
My 78-year old, diabetic mother-in-law got covid. She's been on anti-psychotic drugs for 40 years and has been institutionalized for 25 years due to mental illness. Her body is broken down and abused. The only way they knew she had it was because there was an outbreak in the home where she lives and everyone was getting tested every day. She had no symptoms. There was one hospitalization, a 93-year old man who had congestive heart failure and COPD, but he's been released to go back to the home. Most of the residents had no symptoms or had mild cold-like symptoms, but 38 of 56 residents and numerous staff members have tested positive as of Sunday.
We all have anecdotes.
October 29th, 2020 at 11:11 AM ^
It's the #3 killer in the US. Many more have long lasting impacts.
I'm happy to hear that your MIL was spared the brunt of the virus. It doesn't change the fact that there is much that we don't know about it and its impact on the average person can be extremely severe.
And if we just let it run rampant before a vaccine arrives it will likely kill another half million Americans in the interim.
October 29th, 2020 at 10:32 AM ^
For the life of me I don't understand why people keep arguing about the damned virus. The evidence is in.
We know the most severe consequences of the virus are mostly reserved for those that are already immunocompromised, elderly, or otherwise unhealthy. We know the least at risk group are young and healthy people. We know that the overwhelming majority of those people that get it will show no lasting impact from the virus. These individual threads pointing out exceptions to that fact are just that, exceptions.
On the flip side, this virus is not equivalent to the flu. Its much more dangerous and to try to twist logic into equating the two is dumb dumb talk. Its a very serious situation that is not close to being resolved.
There's a very simple litmus test for the proper way to look at the virus. Would you want someone you love to go through the experience of having the virus? If not, stfu and wear your damned mask and do your best to avoid high risk situations. That doesn't mean you have to lock yourself in your house 24/7 or even that you can't take your husband/wife out for dinner once and awhile. It means don't go to big parties. It means not going bar hopping. It means its a stupid idea to pack 50,000 people in a stadium. This isn't hard.
October 29th, 2020 at 12:15 PM ^
I mean, well put. But the lack of so many stupid fucking people not even allowing a single thought and comprehension regarding your third and fourth paragraphs, is a primary issue. There's no budging for these people. They dig in deeper and deeper. They'd be cool with Dr. Anthony Fauci being cut up like the Saudis do or injected with the "Wuhan Flu" (Borat reference). These people want to tell women what to do with their bodies but are children when it comes to wearing some cloth on their stupid faces. THAT is the problem and why we keep going round and round with this fucking virus argument/discussion. Yes, it is Einstein-ian insanity.
October 29th, 2020 at 12:30 PM ^
We know there is a major subset of this country that does not believe in science. I get all my science from Q drops, for example.
also no one alive now has the fortitude to go through the Great Depression or fight WW2. We complain about the smallest inconvenience and throw tantrums when we can’t have everything our way.
October 29th, 2020 at 9:31 AM ^
I like worrying and hand-wringing as much as anyone, but this has to be extremely rare.
October 29th, 2020 at 9:48 AM ^
I guess I will use a metaphor those of us that were born to witness the aftermath of 9-11/Irag part deux, etc. will easily comprehend.
I read James Rosen's "Pay any price" (and by read, I mean I listened to the recording of a paid voice actor. Now I sound fancy at cocktail parties). The book basically highlights how easily duped the American public can be with a simple injection of fear. I think we should be cautious, safe, etc. It is not unreasonable to question authority, motives, etc. of those in a position of power.
Vitamin D, exercise, socializing with loved ones, etc.
Stay safe out there MGObloggers!
October 29th, 2020 at 10:33 AM ^
*James Risen
October 29th, 2020 at 10:49 AM ^
correct.. sorry for the miss key. He is a fantastic journalist.
October 29th, 2020 at 1:25 PM ^
I wouldn't have corrected it, except that James Risen is quite a different journalist than James Rosen.
October 29th, 2020 at 10:49 AM ^
Hey I read that book, too! The main thing I learned was that the Pentagon is a primary editor of much of the "national-security" content we read in newspapers.
October 29th, 2020 at 9:42 AM ^
If I wanted to be reminded of covid 24/7 I’d be on Facebook. We play Sparty Saturday if you can turn your focus away from covid long enough to enjoy the beatdown were about to put on them.
October 29th, 2020 at 10:06 AM ^
Without reading the article I have a question. Did the WR continually test positive while asymptomatic, or test negative and then develop symptoms as described? The answer would have direct bearing on the Wisconsin situation. If the QBs are all asymptomatic, but continue to test positive, when does the 14 day clock actually start for them to be eligible to return to practice, and then 7 day clock to return to the field? I haven’t seen any clarity on that.
So, if Mertz and Wolf are still testing positive today, does that push the 14 day clock back another day?
October 29th, 2020 at 10:15 AM ^
It's very scary.
Had an appraiser come to my house 4 months ago to inspect some work done by a contractor. She was TERRIFIED of COVID. Not touching anything in our house, asking us politely to stay in different rooms while she took photos. She was really excited that we had young twins, because she also has twins, although they are grown up.
Fast forward to today. She came back to inspect the final completion of the job, and mentioned that one of her twins contracted COVID and died, and the other one got it and lost all taste and smell. She thinks they got it from her grandson, who was asymptomatic.
I feel sick to my stomach after hearing that.
October 29th, 2020 at 10:43 AM ^
Yea but I have been assured by mgoscientists that persons baby doesn’t matter because MOST babies with Covid are perfectly fine
October 29th, 2020 at 12:24 PM ^
Why are you looking for medical advice on a site dedicated to U of M athletics?
October 29th, 2020 at 1:40 PM ^
In my 36 years, I've never known anyone to die or be severely damaged by the flu or any airborne virus, save for a week in bed.
In the past 7 months, a friend's dad died, a coworker of mine and my brother's coworker are each long haulers, and an aunt and uncle are in the hospital.
It isn't the Spanish Flu. I'll grant that. But it's the worst viral outbreak in any of our lifetimes by an order of magnitude, and it's just ramping up. I just don't get why people can't or won't take it seriously.
October 29th, 2020 at 2:10 PM ^
What's your definition of take it seriously? Everyone that I know is working at home as much as possible, wearing masks when in public, social distancing, washing hands, etc. In other words, taking reasonable precautions in proportion to their risk of infection and illness. Personally, I've been out to restaurants a total of 3 times in 7 months, and not any bar in that time frame. What else should we be doing?
October 29th, 2020 at 2:53 PM ^
You're doing all the right things. It's the same things I'm doing.
Many, many others are not doing the right things.
October 29th, 2020 at 3:34 PM ^
Well I'm here to burst your bubble about the flu. In 1988 while a resident at UM my husband contracted the flu, got post-viral encephalitis and has had a lifelong seizure disorder. I know that this is extremely rare, but bad outcomes from the flu do happen.
This makes me MORE cautious about covid because I know how terrible, and seemingly random-- my husband was a healthy 27 year old with no co-morbidities --post-viral complications can be.
I agree with you I don't get why people won't take this seriously.
October 29th, 2020 at 3:41 PM ^
I didn't mean to imply that people didn't get sick from the flu. Just that, in my huge web of family, friends, coworkers, acquaintances, etc, I'd never known anyone to have life altering issues with it.
And now I've got about a half dozen with covid who have had serious consequences, up to and including death.
My best to you and your husband.
October 29th, 2020 at 10:19 AM ^
Good ol CRG. You were told to stop posting about every single game cancelation so I can only assume you moved on to report every single player that has displayed serious symptoms.
On a serious note, I hope Jordan Kress fully recovers. Also, wear your damn mask. Beat STAEE
October 29th, 2020 at 10:45 AM ^
No shit. I hope everyone who gets Covid recovers, but we can't keep hiding at home until there are no negative effects of the virus. Wear a mask and go about your business until there's a vaccine. Bad outcomes will always happen with every virus. We do our best to mitigate, but we can't continue to live like this indefinitely.
October 29th, 2020 at 12:17 PM ^
Yep. My son had H1N1 back when he was 11, developed inflammation of the heart after and fully recovered. My daughters a covid nurse in Toledo and got it. Am I concerned? Hell yes. I travel for business and am as careful as possible but I’m tired as hell of having covid crammed up my crack at every turn. Doesn’t mean I don’t take it serious or care for others, but I am sick of coming here to talk sports and seeing the endless threads and petty bickering.
October 29th, 2020 at 1:44 PM ^
H1N1 killed about 12,000 Americans over a year. Covid is 8 months in and the total is 225,000. The comparison just isn't appropriate.
I'm glad your son recovered. But there is still so much that is unknown about Covid.
I flew last weekend for the first time this year. I normally would fly a lot, for work and pleasure. I was amazed at the number of people on the flight taking their masks off or wearing it around their noses. People do not take a very serious thing seriously, and it sucks.
But I do support the motion to keep this kind of debate off the board.
October 29th, 2020 at 12:46 PM ^
No one has "told" me anything, thanks - if you aren't interested in relevant news then don't click on the threads.
I posted this since it is relevant to Big Ten protocols (although I expected that to be obvious to the community, though perhaps I should have spelled it out for some): the Big Ten is using a 21 day quarantine + evaluation period from the point of initial testing prior to resuming football activities. Many have argued that is too long, yet this case is a clear example that it may be too short of a period - the severe symptoms *started* several weeks after the confirmed positive test, let alone taking much longer for the "recovery" to be completed.
October 29th, 2020 at 2:35 PM ^
It's a minimum of 21 days. In the rare cases like these, nothing is stopping the team doctors from extending the hold-out period. It's no different than any other injury or illness in that way. There is no need for a protocol for return from the regular flu, or mono, or muscle injuries. Teams have been dealing with those for years without message board members questioning them.
Also I don't believe that you are not aware of the pretext behind this and your other posts. You're not just sharing information for the sake of getting it out - you're baiting arguments so you and others can call anyone with a different opinion stupid for holding their opinions. I mean, in your own words - "this case is a clear example that [the 21 day B1G protocol] may be too short of a period" which uses ONE case to disregard all other evidence that 21 in more than enough days? One counter to the thousands, if not tens of thousands, of athletes across MLB, NFL, NCAAF, and soccer leagues across the world, all of which have been successful with out of action periods of 10-21 days.
It doesn't seem to me that you're trying to make any good faith argument or contribute to the overall knowledge of the people on the board. You are just, for whatever reason, finding and sharing every piece of evidence that confirms your priors, which appear to be that Covid is bad (no news there) and that sports shouldn't be played.
October 29th, 2020 at 2:54 PM ^
Amen.