The Real Blue Wall. Grant, Jenkins, Graham
I’ve been watching UM football for 25 years now. When I saw Hutchinson and Ojabo in 2021, I felt pretty confident I was watching the best duo of UM edges during my viewing history.
Watching the pressure and run wall the interior D-linemen of Mason Graham, Chris Jenkins, and Kenneth Grant is starting to give off greatness vibes as well. I’m not sure what the charting would say, but they seem to pass the eye test as best interior UM d-line of my lifetime.
Thoughts? Complaints?
October 9th, 2023 at 8:36 PM ^
This is like having Lamar Woodley, Alan Branch and Mo Hurst on the same team. And may as well add Ojabo as well, represented by Derrick Moore.
October 9th, 2023 at 8:46 PM ^
OT: Every time I see your avatar, I read your post in Chris Jericho’s voice.
October 9th, 2023 at 8:48 PM ^
MacGregor is doing a halfway decent Hutchinson too, what with all the batted passes and Hutchinson-esque lack of blatant holding calls
October 10th, 2023 at 7:04 AM ^
Best DL since 1985, at least.
October 10th, 2023 at 10:03 AM ^
Woah. I want to see us get to the meat of the schedule before making such a declaration.
October 10th, 2023 at 8:13 AM ^
Waiting for Moore to have Ojabo level production, you can see the raw talent but he needs to cash in on more sacks to be in the same breathe as Ojabo. They are also different types of players, Moore doesn't work out of a 2 point stance from what I can tell and I don't remember Ojabo routinely having his hand in the dirt...used differently scheme wise from what I can tell. I'm hoping for more of a Brandon Graham type player out of him given his measurables and skill set.
October 9th, 2023 at 8:39 PM ^
Mason Graham is a wall by himself.
October 9th, 2023 at 9:33 PM ^
And only a sophomore too. That’s hard for me to conceptualize with how physically imposing the kid is and how dominant he’s looked. Even with one hand.
October 9th, 2023 at 10:01 PM ^
The play where he pounced on that dude like a tiger on a water buffalo really captures it.
October 10th, 2023 at 10:03 AM ^
Wrestling, especially at heavyweight just pairs so well at the lineman level. My son wrestled 220 and made it to state. Got sent home pretty quickly, but as a dlineman in D2 in Ohio was pretty much unblockable. Baseball was his sport, so he committed as a sophomore but could have played somewhere like BG or Toledo had he show interest. Graham is a special dude and we get to watch him take the next step, if that’s even possible. All I know is the gelatinous asses at OSU are gonna be pissing their pants come November. Penn states line really has no shot at slowing him down.
October 10th, 2023 at 12:22 AM ^
I get Kris Jenkins is special but I honestly thought and still believe that Graham is better NOW and younger.
What an embarrassment of riches
October 10th, 2023 at 2:45 AM ^
He's the true freak, nobody I can remember except maybe Mike Martin, stared as a tfrosh DT and played to the level he was at. He's even better this year too.
October 10th, 2023 at 9:27 AM ^
Mike Martin was also a state champ wrestler, Terrance Taylor wrestled too. Other than Rob Renes I'm not sure of any other wrestlers that played Dline for UofM. They all turned out to be decent, I guess....
October 10th, 2023 at 10:06 AM ^
See my post above. Mike Martin, if memory serves only wrestled 1 year and won state. That’s just not even in the realm of comprehension. I wrestled from the time I was 8 and never made state.
October 10th, 2023 at 10:25 AM ^
I think it was 2 years but could be wrong, I coached against him and he manhandled one of my best 285's ever who placed 4th that year. Dude was a freak, he might have been like Gable Stevenson had he wrestled his whole life. Saw him at a networking event recently and Martin has really trimmed down.
October 10th, 2023 at 12:04 PM ^
Saw him at a networking event recently and Martin has really trimmed down.
It's pretty crazy what some former linemen (both DL and OL) look like after they hang up the cleats. Just goes to show that many of them are not playing at anywhere near a natural weight, but rather have bulked up for the sake of the game...
October 10th, 2023 at 7:47 AM ^
Our own Steve Emtman
October 10th, 2023 at 8:16 AM ^
Wrestlers be like that....
October 10th, 2023 at 9:08 AM ^
He's a top 10 pick easy.
October 10th, 2023 at 10:10 AM ^
He’s our version of Gilbert Brown, who was one of my all time favorites. I wasn’t even a packers fan. Something about an unblockable side of beef draws my eyes to the tv every play.
October 9th, 2023 at 8:41 PM ^
Give me your all time Harbaugh defense line including edges. I'll do 1st team Gary, Hurst, Mazi, Hutchinson. 2nd team Ojabo, Graham, Jenkins, Winovich. 3rd Team Danna, Wormley, Glasgow, Paye. Honorable mentions: Taco, Willie Henry, Mike Morris, Wormley. This was tough. I thought about swapping Jenkins instead of Mazi or Ojabo for Gary. No Grant yet because I think it's too early.
October 9th, 2023 at 8:50 PM ^
Hutchinson, Hurst, Graham/Grant, Ojabo
Opposing QB's would never know peace
October 9th, 2023 at 9:39 PM ^
I'm only able to understand this in the context of asking me to make a team with $15.
October 9th, 2023 at 9:40 PM ^
Good list - can't find much to argue with... except -- no way Danna makes it for me. He was only around UM for 1 season, and while I think he's a damn fine representative of UM in the league and has had some success there, no way he contributed more to UM or even at his peak was a better player than any of those honorable mentions
October 9th, 2023 at 11:05 PM ^
He was only here for 1 year but when he was playing on Sunday night football he said University of Michigan when they do their starting lineup introductions. I like him even more for that.
October 10th, 2023 at 8:30 AM ^
LOL. Yes even though the announcers said his prior university.
October 10th, 2023 at 9:10 AM ^
Wow, no Woodley? Before Hutch he may have been the best DE ever at UM.
October 10th, 2023 at 9:33 AM ^
Hutch, Woodley, Hurst, B. Graham
October 10th, 2023 at 12:29 PM ^
1st Team: Hutchinson, Hurst, Graham, Gary
2nd Team: Ojabo, Glasgow, Jenkins, Winovich
3rd: Taco, Henry, Mazi, Paye
Honorable Mention: Danna, Morris, Wormley, Ryan
Yes, I already think Graham is 1st team DT... he should clear Hurst by the end of his career. Also, this is only for the Harbaugh era obviously.
October 9th, 2023 at 8:50 PM ^
It might the best crop of DTs on one Michigan football team.
In the Harbaugh era, I think the 2016 team's defensive line as a whole was stacked. Chris Wormley, Ryan Glasgow, Maurice Hurst, and Bryan Mone at DT. Taco Charlton, Rashan Gary, and Chase Winovich at DE.
October 9th, 2023 at 8:55 PM ^
2016 was a crazy defense and DL, but Gary was injured all year and Hurst wasn't peak Hurst yet.
The robbery in Cbus will never be forgiven.
October 9th, 2023 at 9:04 PM ^
He wasn't peak Hurst yet, but he was a junior with 5 sacks and 10+ TFLs. Most teams don't have a single guy like that. Hurst did that as a backup in 2016.
2016 was Rashan Gary's freshman year, and he played in every game. I think the shoulder injury became a problem more during the following years.
Michigan was rolling out Maurice Hurst, Chase Winovich, and Rashan Gary in their 2nd team.
October 9th, 2023 at 9:14 PM ^
I don't recall Gary being hurt all year. He was a freshman, contributed well.
Hurst was great in 2016. He did split time with Godin; Michigan played Glasgow most snaps and split snaps between Hurst and Godin most of the time. Hurst was a monster already.
And Wormley was a dominant SDE.
The DL was the best element on the team, but the whole defense was impressive. Nobody had solved Don Brown yet, and Michigan was deploying Peppers and (edit: Jourdain Lewis, of course) behind that DL.Sometimes I think about some of those vintage teams and feel like they compare favorably to this year's roster, and I wonder why this year's team *seems* to have it so much easier. Some of that may be rose-colored-glasses looking at the past. Some may be scheme--Don Brown was uncrackable in 2016, but Minter has far more tools in the toolbox. But, really, a lot of the difference is that Michigan's offense is just way better.
Being honest, I'd love to see Brian/Seth quantify some of these defensive position groups relative to each other, using grading and maybe some film and even just a touch of "feels."
It *feels* like, if he stays relatively healthy, we will tell our kids that Mason Graham is the best defensive tackle we've ever seen at Michigan.
October 9th, 2023 at 9:18 PM ^
Hugely superior quarterback play is the difference. Confidence when the quarterback drops back that he can put the ball in the right spot or make a good play with his legs is the difference from 2016 to 2023.
October 9th, 2023 at 9:50 PM ^
The Newsome injury against Wisconsin which dominoe'd into Speight's shoulder injury with a backup tackle ultimately derailed that 2016 season - even though we really had OSU beat even with an injured QB - if not for some absurdly one-sided officiating.
The Iowa game that year was a horrific loss that cost us the playoff as well. That team healthy could have won the national title.
October 9th, 2023 at 10:06 PM ^
I think the team as a whole is faster. This is the fastest Michigan team I can recall seeing. The WRs, the RBs, even J.J. with his wheels, the way the whole defense closes on the ball.
October 9th, 2023 at 10:13 PM ^
Leon Hall was about a decade or so earlier. I'm assuming you are thinking of Jourdan Lewis?
October 10th, 2023 at 12:56 AM ^
Good catch, yes, I was thinking of Lewis and putting Hall's name on there.
October 10th, 2023 at 2:24 AM ^
Just think if Willie Henry had decided to stick around. He may have proved to be the team’s best DT in 2016 and a all-league player.
October 10th, 2023 at 9:11 AM ^
I'd take Brandon Graham and Woodley over any of those DE. Recency bias?
October 10th, 2023 at 1:43 PM ^
I came here to say this. Charlton, Winovich, Hurst and Glasgow were special.
October 9th, 2023 at 9:00 PM ^
Mason Graham will be the best dlineman to ever have played at Michigan
October 9th, 2023 at 9:12 PM ^
That’s a HAWT take. Hutchinson, Brandon Graham, Mark Messner and a few others might want to have a word with you.
October 9th, 2023 at 9:15 PM ^
Lamar Woodley and Glen Steele
October 9th, 2023 at 9:15 PM ^
Mason has the ability to surpass the latter two.
Aidan Hutchinson was a deserved Heisman runner-up and it would take a superhuman performance to exceed him.
But I'm willing to give bonus points for a national championship.
October 9th, 2023 at 9:36 PM ^
Just seemed like each and every time the QB dropped back, Hutch was in the position to get a sack or at least alter the play somehow. Ojabo was also a big part of that and I don’t know if we will see such a dominant edge rush duo for the Wolverines.
October 9th, 2023 at 10:16 PM ^
And Hutch is still doing it in the NFL as well.
October 9th, 2023 at 9:41 PM ^
Those 3 are definitely part of the all-time D line in my opinion and then the last spot is hard to determine. Graham has the potential to join them if he's a first team All-American next year.
October 9th, 2023 at 9:59 PM ^
Bold but not without merit.
I think Mason is on his way to becoming the best interior d-lineman in the Harbaugh era.
His wrestling skills just seem to make o-lineman helpless.
Wrestlers tend ro have exceptional leg strength and hip balance combined with push/pull arm strength.
It’s kind of hard to compare edge with interior imo. What Hutch did was extraordinary.
Gary is the player I would really like to have seen coached by this more sophisticated defensive staff.
October 10th, 2023 at 12:56 AM ^
Any lineman prospect with wrestling background is worth a closer look. They just know how to use leverage.