Question about sports medicine standards (re: Benjamin St. Juste)

Submitted by crg on October 24th, 2020 at 12:17 PM

Addressed to those on the board with insight into college sports medical practices:

Today we will see Benjamin St. Juste line up against his old team, who placed him on medical redshirt that ended his playing career at UM.  Yet it seems apparent that he has been healthy enough to play elsewhere (and this has happened for other former UM players as well).  Here is the question: is the UM medical standard/threshold higher than these other teams'?  I assume these medical professionals communicate their findings/diagnoses - is it that common to come to this dramatic of an opinion difference in sports medicine?

Lakeyale13

October 24th, 2020 at 12:21 PM ^

No expert, but I’m sure it’s a way to “get rid” of a player that perhaps isn’t a fit for the program anymore.

 I can’t imagine another university willing to take on the risk and liability of a player playing who objectively has a condition that could cause severe harm if his playing career were to continue. 

vablue

October 24th, 2020 at 12:48 PM ^

It is clearly a kinder way of processing a kid as it allows the kid to keep his scholarship but not take up a spot on the team.  Michigan appears to have made mistake on this one, but I doubt it was of the medical variety.  That said, it’s possible that Michigan processing him also was the wake up call that inspired him to put in some work.

bronxblue

October 24th, 2020 at 1:01 PM ^

I have seen no evidence that UM didn't want to keep St. Juste, not that they had some scholarship crunch that would have led to a firm handshake.  It's my understanding that his injury were chronic knee/leg injuries and UM didn't think he'd ever recover from it properly.  Minnesota thought he could and this far he's stayed healthy.  It's similar to Pipkins, who went to Texas Tech and stayed healthy.  Maybe St. Juste just had a bad run early on with injuries and is otherwise likely to stay healthy; maybe he has some chronic injury that will flare up.  Nobody knows.  But I doubt UM looked at a good player like him, one they hyped up a couple of times, and said after two-ish years he was a bust and sent him away.

Magnus

October 24th, 2020 at 3:22 PM ^

Michigan just dealt with something similar when Drake Harris injured his hamstring year after year.

How long do you hold a roster spot for someone who has the same or similar injuries over and over?

Good for St-Juste for carving out a career elsewhere. I don't blame Michigan for cutting bait. And I don't blame St-Juste for trying to continue to play.

blueheron

October 24th, 2020 at 1:36 PM ^

"I can’t imagine another university willing to take on the risk and liability ..."

Respectfully, I'd say you lack imagination. Contemplate the SEC for a moment. (If you want, go deep into conspiracy territory and consider that Clemson and LSU may've nodded and winked at the idea of their players getting COVID-19 early to avoid messing up the season.) Do you think they have the same standards (in whatever category) as the Pac 12?

Cruzcontrol75

October 24th, 2020 at 12:23 PM ^

falcon was not well enough to play at Michigan.  Fleck and Lester gave him a shot to come back in Kalamazoo, he never looked good after rehab and he eventually medically retired.  the kid probably worked his ass off to get back on the field.  I’m glad he got a moment but sadly as happens to many the injuries were too much to overcome.  i hope he’s able to get his degree and move on after football.

Farnn

October 24th, 2020 at 12:46 PM ^

Could be a way to make roster room without cutting a player, and allowing them to get their degree.  But on the other hand, players may not want to hear the medical news and insist they can keep playing.  And there's a lot of unscrupulous coaches who would let a player risk further injury if they think they could help their team.

There are 3 players under Harbaugh I recall facing pressure to take a medical and balking at the offer, Ondre Pipkins, Matt Falcoln, and St. Juste.  All 3 had a history of injuries and it would be reasonable for a doctor to recommend they no longer play.  Meanwhile, Fleck has had some bad press about him this summer regarding overworking players and not caring about their well being.

Without knowing the actual medical diagnosis from Michigan it's impossible to say how legit the medicals are but I don't think there's a case to criticize Michigan for overly designating players to take a medical against their wishes either.

OwenGoBlue

October 24th, 2020 at 12:52 PM ^

Different diagnosis is common but it's hard to tell on a case by case basis if it's that or if a guy was processed.

If they light St. Juste on fire today I will yell at the TV that he is a bum who was processed. I'll go back to generally rooting for the guy on Sunday. 

Wolverine 73

October 24th, 2020 at 1:01 PM ^

Doctors can differ in their diagnoses the same way lawyers can view facts and reach different conclusions or brokers can look at stocks and disagree on whether one is a buy or not.  Some doctors, lawyers, brokers etc. are more conservative than others.  It shouldn’t be surprising there might be medical disagreement about the wisdom of someone continuing an athletic career.

johnnywalkerblue

October 24th, 2020 at 2:30 PM ^

As a former athlete, I can tell you flat out that we don't like being told we can't do something.

Medical experts probably weighed in and told St. Juste of the risks he would face playing again.

As an athlete, I am sure he heard that and said: "F that.  I'm gonna prove them wrong."

And he has.

crg

October 24th, 2020 at 3:03 PM ^

Completely understandable from his perspective.

My question is that two teams of medical professionals (not just one individual) at each school, with presumably comparable levels of competency and professionalism, came to such dramatically different conclusions.  Something does not seem right here - not necessarily in terms of unethical behavior (although possible), but more in terms of fairness to the students.

Dr. Detroit

October 24th, 2020 at 2:31 PM ^

Glad for St. Juste to get healthy enough to play well.  It's a shame it wasn't in AA, because he would look really good with the winged helmet today and there wouldn't have been nearly the gloomy talk with him as #1 CB.

mooseman

October 24th, 2020 at 3:03 PM ^

I've been on both sides of this. I've told kids they shouldn't or can't play and years ago I doctor shopped to find someone who said "Ok" after my surgeon said no.

There is room for differences of opinion and I have no illusions either about teams using these decisions to trim rosters.

Bottom line: who knows.

WorldwideTJRob

October 24th, 2020 at 3:10 PM ^

This is big time college football. Michigan needed scholarships, St. Juste was injured. So they medically redshirted him to create room. St. Juste felt he still could play and Fleck gave him a chance. The season before St Juste was behind Hill, Watson, Ambry, and Long on the depth chart. Plus, they had Gray and Green coming up behind him. If they would’ve known what they knew now, probably would’ve kept him on the team.

MGoStrength

October 24th, 2020 at 4:53 PM ^

This is a guess from the outside looking in.  That being said I do have a master's degree in exercise science with a concentration on performance enhancement and injury prevention.  It is beyond my scope of practice to diagnose injuries, but well within it at avoiding them and recover from them through exercise.  I have also worked as a college S&C coach at three different universities including one division one football program, but never a P5 football program. 

I say to highlight that I've worked with athletes as a college S&C recovering from and dealing with injuries so I see how these things happen.  And, my best guess is the UM sports med staff did this more to serve their own needs than the student's.  I'd guess this was probably a way to offer a firm handshake.  St. Juste said it was not his choice and he never planned on being done playing.  So, while I'm sure the UM staff had enough evidence to make the call valid, I'd also guess they had enough evidence to allow him to keep playing at UM if the UM coaches wanted him to.  If this was hypothetically Charles Woodson recovering from the same injury history, he'd still be at UM playing.

growler4

October 24th, 2020 at 5:36 PM ^

Often times in medicine, things are not always black and white. Physicians can look at the same condition but differ on the potential for adverse outcome with continued sport participation.

In situations such as this, there are judgments to be made in conjunction with individual and institutional risk assessment. An athlete and his/her family may be willing to assume a certain degree of risk in order to pursue an athletic career but one institution may not be willing to assume the risk while another might.

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