Question about next year's D-Line

Submitted by MaizenBlue93 on

I'm pretty sure everyone agrees right now that the assumed starters on the D-Line next year are Frank Clark at WDE, Willie Henry at 3TDT, and Pipkins at NT. However, what about SDE? I know the candidates right now are Heitzman, Godin, Wormley, Strobel, but what about Taco Charlton? As a true freshman, when he's played he's' shown great poise and potential. Do you think there's any way Hoke/Mattison would switch him over to SDE? I think if the season were to start today that Clark-Henry-Pipkins-Charlton would be the best lineup right now. 

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maizenblue92

December 15th, 2013 at 8:13 PM ^

I wouldnt pencil in Pipkins at the NT position. A man of that size may take a while to recover from an ACL tear. He would also have to get into game shape. As far as SDE goes, I would say that they all will get playing time early and those that play the best will get the most later in the year. A wild guess: Wormley and Taco emerge with Strobel as the third guy. 

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AZBlue

December 16th, 2013 at 1:47 AM ^

I thought Brian mentioned the goal was that he might reach C. Roh levels of effectiveness there - undersized but solid. He may also be needed back at WLB for depth behind JMFR.

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Space Coyote

December 16th, 2013 at 1:51 PM ^

But I don't know how good of an option. Beyer is only 6'3", so he likely doesn't have that long of arms and likely will have a harder time adding good weight and maintaining his athleticism. If he can, he can be an improvement rushing the passer fromt hat position compared to some others, but I wouldn't feel comfortable with him holding up against the run.

I'd actually prefer him to cut about 10 lbs and move back to SAM, where I think he is more than servicable depth at that position and is likely a step above the next man up. Sucks for him as he's been a bit of a nomad as far as positions, but I think that's where he's needed most and makes the best use of his abilities.

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Space Bat

December 15th, 2013 at 8:17 PM ^

I was under the impression that Beyer was bulking up and playing SDE next year after playing there undersized this year when JMFR came back. Wormley I would expect to play mostly 3tech and spot at SDE. McDowell has a chance to play some SDE too if he ends up choosing us

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denardogasm

December 15th, 2013 at 8:51 PM ^

I really really hope that was just for this year due to lack of experience on the line or something. I'd much rather have Beyer back up Ryan. We need more naturally huge guys who can carry their weight easily if we want a better pass rush. This is gonna be Roh all over again. Almost zero pass rush.

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redhousewolverine

December 15th, 2013 at 11:22 PM ^

But to elaborate, why force Beyer to be something he isn't when we have even more depth at SDE next year. Heitzman, Wormley and Godin will have another year of development and weightlifting. Hopefully we can find some competent starters out of them. Plus, Strobel might be able to make an impact also. I'm sure Beyer will put his hand in the ground occasionally, but I would prefer it to be more of a situational/pass-rushing type situation, i.e. third downs and the like. Or maybe Ojemudia takes a step forward. Plus, outside of a RS FR McCray and a RS SO Gant, we will have no backups for JMFR who, although a champion, will need some rest occasionally. Would be great to plug Beyer in on those situations.

Edit: I was not implying Heitzman, Wormley, Godin, or anyone else wasn't competent. Also, this situation could be put in limbo if Henry has to start at NT cause Pipkins isn't ready. Hopefully he comes back from that knee injury ready to kick ass.

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JTrain

December 15th, 2013 at 8:18 PM ^

I will answer it the way they would in a presser...."....whoever practices the best and practices with the most consistency will EARN the right to start / rotate..."
Really tho...seems like Charlton is the physical specimen they are looking for. Not sure if his technique or "mind" is ready yet tho. What about Ojemudia?

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Lazer with a Z

December 15th, 2013 at 8:22 PM ^

I don't think starters are really that important in Mattison's defensive line. They rotate players a lot on the line. Starting literally just means, that they begin the game. 

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Magnus

December 15th, 2013 at 10:01 PM ^

You can still set a guy up for a move later. Offensive linemen study defensive linemen, so they know their tendencies. An opposing LT watches film and studies all the significant edge rushers (Clark, Beyer, Ryan, etc.). If Clark is in for a series and then Charlton comes in, the LT will know what each brings to the table...so there will be a chance to use a counter move.

It's rare that a defensive lineman plays an entire game, anyway, so I don't think this is anything odd about Mattison himself. 

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redhousewolverine

December 15th, 2013 at 11:31 PM ^

Magnus, do you think part of the heavy rotation is the fact that we haven't really have a lot of established playmakers and had a lot of youth on the line, particularly last season? Would seem there would be less rotation once a few guys emerge to claim spots, which we kind of saw later in the season as Clark and Black were playing nearly all the time. It would seem with QWash's back injury that the coaches were plugging in a lot of guys to try to figure out the working recipe.

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Magnus

December 15th, 2013 at 10:03 PM ^

I kind of hope not. First of all, Beyer's just not that great of a football player. But secondly, he's only 250 lbs. Adding 30 lbs. in one offseason is not an easy or good thing to do, and that's what he would have to add to get up to the roughly 280 lbs. that an SDE needs to be in this defense.

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Every Roh Has …

December 15th, 2013 at 8:40 PM ^

I do believe the scuttlebutt was that Wormley is moving to 3tech, but I could be mistaken. Also: I have no problem with Frank Clark and Taco both playing WDE. It's a position that gets rotation, just like most of the front 7. This isn't NCAA '14 where you just plug guys who have the highest overall grade at various positions. 

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Mich1993

December 15th, 2013 at 8:53 PM ^

I see Clark-wde, Henry-nt, Wormley and Beyer. Pipkins at NT with Henry at 3T if Pipkins is back ready to go. Hurst and Poggi will be next year's version of Henry and Wormley. Play more and more as the year goes on. Charlton will amaze here and there and play a lot by the end of the year.

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CriticalFan

December 15th, 2013 at 9:19 PM ^

Or our next big gap filler, after QWASH? Pipkins if healthy right?  Hurst and Poggi might not be big/strong enough by then.

Also would McDowell have much chance at cracking the rotation (if he comes)? Or was Taco the last of the freshman d-liners for the foreseeable future? 

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Victor Valiant

December 15th, 2013 at 9:31 PM ^

Taco is going to be a SDE by the second half of his career at least. He came in this season at 6'6 270. He did that in a half season of strength and conditioning. It's almost irrational to believe he won't be 6'6 290 by next year if he sticks with the plan he has been going with. He could be Mario Williams sized by his sophomore year if they want him to be. If they think 270 is his ideal weight, I get that, but I see him as a 285-290 lb strong side d-end that can wreak havov there or occassionally inside.

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Victor Hale II

December 16th, 2013 at 9:21 AM ^

How do you define "explosiveness"?  If you mean quickness, that was definitely his forte last I saw him in the All-Star game.  Granted, he'll be going against better players on the OL in the B1G, but I thought his ability to shoot past the OL was a definite strong suit of his. 

 

I'll be curious to see how much muscle he's put on in the past year, as he definitely looked like he needed some.

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Bo Nederlander

December 15th, 2013 at 9:47 PM ^

Don't forget about Mone. Shit, you could probably slide Henry over to 3-tech with Mone in at NT. When a kid is 6'4 338 and moves like he does, his youth might not matter much. Also consider that he's an EE and will be in A2 in less than a month.

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Perkis-Size Me

December 15th, 2013 at 9:54 PM ^

Well my first guess for starting at DE would be Da'Shawn Ha....oh wait.

No but in all seriousness, with the frequency with which Mattison rotates his D-Linemen, starting doesn't mean much aside from being on the field for the first snaps of the game. I'd guess that it'll be Clark, Pip, Henry (who I think showed some good flashes at the end of the year), and as for SDE, I really couldn't say. But I wouldn't be surprised if Charlton starts earning a lot more snaps there by the end of the year.

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avid

December 16th, 2013 at 1:12 PM ^

Seems to be the big question mark and it makes sense that the coaches are telling Malik McDowell that he would be in the mix for playing time early.

It was mentioned that Wormley would move to 3T but I wonder if he would still play some 5T if McDowell decides to go elsewhere?

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WolvinLA2

December 16th, 2013 at 7:35 PM ^

What happens with Malik McDowell might have an impact on if and where guys move.  

I like the idea of Taco moving to the 5-tech.  He's clearly big enough, so if he can hold up against the run, it would be great having an athletic guy at that spot to rush the passer.  Clark and Ojemudia are both clearly ahead of him at WDE and they're both back.  Lawrence Marshall is definitely a WDE and many are high on him, plus is sounds like Furbush will be a WDE as well.  That's too many guys for that spot, and Taco seems like the move that makes the most sense.  

A DL of Taco/McDowell - Pipkins/Mone - Henry/Wormley - MO/Marshall in a couple year would be pretty awesome.  

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