QB controversy – is the concern misplaced? Why not play both?
Cade or JJ? JJ or Cade? Are you team Cade or team JJ? Etc. etc.
Why is the QB position somehow immune from rotation or being shared? Tradition and history from the time when the T-formation made the QB the key player in the offense seems to be one factor, but hasn’t the development of football suggest that IF there are two skilled QBs on a team why not play both of them, especially if their strengths are complementary.
Consider we had two great running backs last year, Hassan Haskins and Blake Corum. Neither seemed to diminished or “stunted” by having to share time with the other. This year we have the same situation with Donovan Edwards and Blake Corum. No one seems to mind, worry or care.
When QBs actually called plays it might make a big difference, but it has been 30-40 years since the last NFL QB did so with regularity (e.g. NOT just during hurry up or 2 minute drill time). With overhead observation and awareness of substitution packages, today, most teams would not want the QB to try to call the whole game. There are too many factors to track.
The offensive team already has to adjust to different personnel packages and when people can rotated in and out, so why not the QB?
If it is a question of “getting comfortable with the receivers” – ok, then work on that in practice. The RBs have to get comfortable with the OL and seem to manage.
Running the ball from the QB position will lead to hits and hits lead to injury – that is inevitable, so if you got two QBs, play them.
If one QB is overwhelming better – then it makes sense to go with the best player, but in a rare case like we have here (and like we have with the RBs) why not try to make the most positive of the situation rather than hide behind ‘well it is tradition’ and ‘if you have 2 QBs you have no QBs saying’. Play them both and make opposing defense work harder!
Go Blue!
September 8th, 2022 at 9:24 PM ^
Diary?
that said, JJ seems to be way better. Time will tell, but a way better guy is usually the one to go with. This is all said as a huge Cade fan.
September 9th, 2022 at 9:41 AM ^
No, the IDEA of JJ seems way better in peoples minds, not is better. Dude hasn’t even played a complete game, nor played anyone with a pulse as a starter. If chosen as the starter he will then have the opportunity to show if he is better. Playing one of the worst teams in D1 will only help make up the minds that we’re already made up.
September 9th, 2022 at 10:42 AM ^
Agree with you Ftown. Just like JJ's poor performance in the MSU game isn't everything, Cade's poor performance against CSU shouldn't be everything either. Both have had bad and good games. Cade is steady and has shown excellent decision making over the ups and downs of a full season.
Reminds me of our QB during the only national championship season we've had in 70 yrs (other than we threw the ball deep more that season). (Btw, this is not to suggest that Cade can win us the NC this yr. I've already resigned myself to the fact that Bama takes it this year.)
September 9th, 2022 at 1:51 PM ^
Just like JJ's poor performance in the MSU game isn't everything,
Poor performance?
3-4-23 yds - 1 td - 0 interceptions
1 for 1 for touchdowns in the red zone.
September 9th, 2022 at 4:11 PM ^
Jon, I wasn't talking about stats but actual game play. If you rewatch, JJ seemed lost that game.
If you want to focus only on stats, it seems like cherry picking not to mention at all that he also had two fumbles that game and the loss of the second one came at a crucial point in the game.
September 9th, 2022 at 5:21 PM ^
In post-game, Harbaugh explained that a mistake by Corum, not McCarthy, caused a fumble.
And BTW, in the waning moments of the game, UM was driving for a go-ahead score when McNamara threw an INT. Game over.
Sort of amazing to see how much people forget about what happened in that game.
September 9th, 2022 at 5:41 PM ^
he also had two fumbles that game and the loss of the second one came at a crucial point in the game.
I don’t think we should hold fumbles that aren’t lost against players any more than we should hold dropped interceptions against them. The fumble that “JJ” did lose that game, was entirely on Corum. JJ did everything he was supposed to. According to the head ball coach himself.
September 9th, 2022 at 12:55 PM ^
JJ is not "way better" or this wouldn't be a discussion.
We have to stop with this foolery as if Harbaugh isn't going to play someone who is way better at football over someone who is, by definition, way worse.
Harbaugh has provided ZERO indication at any point in his coaching career that he is willing to do that.
I love both guys, I think JJ should be the starter, but this notion that he's clearly better and somehow we see it but Jim fricking Harbaugh doesn't and/or is willing to sabotage his own team...it's beyond bizarre. It's fucking crazy talk is what it is.
September 8th, 2022 at 9:24 PM ^
You do not understand the quarterback position
September 9th, 2022 at 12:24 AM ^
As the saying goes, if you have 2 QBs, you have none.
September 9th, 2022 at 7:57 AM ^
But it is also said that if you have one QB, you are only 25% to a full back
September 9th, 2022 at 2:25 PM ^
That's math, right?
September 9th, 2022 at 9:54 AM ^
The Buckeyes did have a good deal of success platooning Joe Germaine and Stanley Jackson in the late 90s. Both had their strengths according to Cooper. Boston was their primary receiver.
it is rare to see. But it has been done. Although it was considered controversial at the time and they didn’t win the NC, they were top 10 though.
September 9th, 2022 at 10:37 AM ^
One of the reasons we upset them in 1996 was Cooper outsmarted himself and started Germaine in The Game instead of Jackson
September 9th, 2022 at 5:23 PM ^
But UM won in 1997 when Jackson started instead of Germaine--and tOSU was scoreless until Germaine entered the game.
September 10th, 2022 at 8:46 AM ^
A man named Woodson erased all errors.
September 9th, 2022 at 1:02 PM ^
Kinda like Bama who won a national championship with Jalen Hurts and Tua, right?
Two QBs = 0.
Oh, ehhh, wait.
No, every situation is different. If those 2 QBs are Steven Threet and Nick Sheridan...okay, there's a point to be made.
This ain't that.
September 9th, 2022 at 7:53 PM ^
And 1994 Nebraska with Tommy Frazier with another QB whose name I cannot remember.
September 9th, 2022 at 7:57 PM ^
Double
September 8th, 2022 at 9:27 PM ^
Did you listen to Cade’s comments post game? A QB platoon isn’t a good long term solution. The QB position just isn’t built that way. There’s very few positions like it in sports. The closest analogy I can think of: imagine pulling goalies for shifts the way you do the rest of the skaters. It’d probably ruin the confidence & rhythm of your starting goalie and cause them to give up more goals.
September 9th, 2022 at 8:08 AM ^
For a baseball reference, the Tampa starting pitchers are complaining that they are being pulled in the sixth inning or earlier. It’s in their DNA to want to throw 90-100 pitches, especially when they are in their rhythm.
September 9th, 2022 at 9:05 AM ^
I actually think an appropriate (and not realistic or legal) baseball analogy would be to have two different hitters rotating in and out of the batter's box during one at bat. One guy gets a pitch or two, then you switch for one or two, then switch back... Neither guy would benefit from that, even if they're both great hitters.
It partially the sort of nebulous "rhythm" thing but also learning from the information you've gathered. A big part of both hitting in baseball and playing QB is processing what the other team has done so far, using that to predict their future behavior, and reacting accordingly. It's why hitters generally fare so much better against a pitcher the second time through a lineup.
I think good QBs learn a lot early in a game and use it to exploit a defense as the game goes on. The more you're rotating in and out, the less information you're giving both QBs to react to. And, you could say that applies to all positions but the other ones rotate just fine. That's kind of true, but I don't think any position processes as much information as a QB or has as much to gain by exploiting that in the way they play.
September 9th, 2022 at 12:28 PM ^
No, the comparable baseball example would be a platoon system for certain positions which many teams employ. Clearly, that doesn't work for starting pitching although MLB teams now stretch their starting staff in certain games by going with an opener, a non-starter who is then replaced by a spot starter or long reliever who then pitches the bulk of the game.
That is essentially the idea behind a two-qb system, (using the best abilities of two players to improve the performance of one position) which Michigan used last year but which Harbaugh seems not committed to this season, putting the job up for field efficiency testing. We know the performance standards being judged, and the relative strengths of the competitors, and one's ability to succeed in certain contests the other hasn't fully experienced --yet. So, until one is decided as the starter, we have a two-qb system, by default, until we don't.
September 9th, 2022 at 12:48 PM ^
Lost in my note above is the ego of a starting pitcher is similar to a starting QB. They don't want to be pulled before they are ready, shake of catcher until they get their pitch, etc.
Agree with both your points as well. Changing a batter might be more applicable as a pinch hitter who comes off the bench cold.
September 8th, 2022 at 9:28 PM ^
Play the QB that gives you the better chance to win. If you take said QB out and replace with the lesser chance to win, that’s just dumb.
September 9th, 2022 at 8:44 AM ^
JJ is better. Play him. He is way more explosive, better arm, better runner (which helps everything about the offense), not afraid to pull the ball and go. He does everything better than Cade. LAST YEAR he was a freshman. He has learned, gotten better. This is Alex Smith vs. Colin Kaepernick. Who won that battle? What was the result? Going to the Super Bowl...
September 8th, 2022 at 9:31 PM ^
Running backs rotate because they will typically wear down over the course of a game and season with too many carries. Rythym is important for a quarterback. Reps are important and if you're at a position where you physically capable of playing an entire game and are clearly more capable than the back up it makes sense to give that person all the reps. If the level of play doesn't suffer and the skill sets are unique rotating makes sense. Most people calling for JJ think him being in a game all 4 quarters every down gives this team a better chance of scoring more points. We'll find out in a few weeks.
September 8th, 2022 at 9:32 PM ^
Maybe wait till after this weeks game to see if JJ plays as uninspired as Cade did before determining them to be equal.
September 9th, 2022 at 4:46 AM ^
This will all play out in Iowa City. The QB will emerge from that game, no matter who the starter is prior.
September 9th, 2022 at 8:47 AM ^
My guess is McCarthy is named starter after Hawaii. 3 games to settle into running the team like a starter before Iowa. Iowa is the Midterm exam.
McNamara will get reps the next 3 games. Hopefully he continues being a Captain in case that Midterm gets failed.
September 9th, 2022 at 2:31 PM ^
The qb controversy will be settled well before Iowa.
September 8th, 2022 at 9:36 PM ^
They’re not equal with regards to the offense we want to run. We want to run the ball the majority of the time and one of them adds nothing to the running game while the other adds to it.
September 8th, 2022 at 9:41 PM ^
Perrin Black or Perrin Nitro Black. Which to drink? Ahhh why not both?
September 9th, 2022 at 7:45 AM ^
unlike a lot of what I just read..... this makes perfect sense to me. cheers
September 8th, 2022 at 9:43 PM ^
Play both at the same time!
Instead of splitting the baby, mash the QBs together.
Okay, I admit it, I'm genius, Solomonic in my wisdom.
September 8th, 2022 at 9:52 PM ^
You’d need an ambidextrous center and running back the size of Jerome Bettis. It could work.
September 8th, 2022 at 10:43 PM ^
"ambidextrous"
Not that there's anything wrong with that....
September 8th, 2022 at 10:35 PM ^
I’ve dreamed of a two QB offense called the double-barrel shotgun since I was in grade school 30 years ago.
September 9th, 2022 at 7:46 AM ^
line up in the wishbone..... both QB's and 1 RB....
no one will know what to expect.... it might be just crazy enough to work.....
or not
September 9th, 2022 at 8:46 AM ^
2 QBs at the same time
September 9th, 2022 at 8:04 PM ^
@Newton.... Jesus did that make me laugh!
September 9th, 2022 at 2:39 PM ^
Like, mashing them together worked so well in The Fly. Just sayin'.
September 8th, 2022 at 9:50 PM ^
I have two bosses. It’s a pain in the ass for me and them. I have to learn how to do everything two different ways. They have to worry about me not remembering how they want things done. Nobody is happy.
September 8th, 2022 at 9:57 PM ^
That actually is a pretty good analogy for why NOT to have 2 QBs. Aside from the fact that if QB A is run threat and QB B isn't it kind of telegraphs to the opponent your play, which is a decided disadvantage.
September 8th, 2022 at 11:06 PM ^
And here's something else Bob, I have eight different bosses right now.....
OK, that doesn't really add anything, but I only clicked this thread to see the neg count for the OP and the responses anyway.
September 8th, 2022 at 11:48 PM ^
I beg your pardon?! (sits forward from casual lean back in chair)
-8 bosses...
8?!!
-8 Bob...
September 9th, 2022 at 12:01 AM ^
so that means when I make a mistake, I have eight people coming around to tell me about it.....
September 9th, 2022 at 8:16 AM ^
I'm my own boss....and when I make a mistake I still have 8 people telling me what I did wrong.
September 9th, 2022 at 7:05 AM ^
Good luck with those TPS reports.
September 9th, 2022 at 2:34 PM ^
When you have two bosses you have no bosses. Ancient Chinese proverb.