OT: Wednesday evening men’s hoops comments

Submitted by Amazinblu on March 1st, 2023 at 7:04 PM

It’s Wednesday evening - two B1G games on the agenda.

Maryland (11-7 and tied with Michigan for second in the conference) at OSU.  You can get a ticket for $2.00 plus fees.  But, it means you would need to be in Columbus at Value City arena.  FWIW, I love that name and think it’s perfect for the Buckeyes.  The game tips off at 7:00 EST.

The conference nightcap tips off at 9:00 pm EST and features Northwestern (also 11-7 in conference play) hosting Penn State.

Both B1G games will be broadcast on BTN.

Michigan takes the floor again tomorrow (Thursday) evening in Champaign against the Illini.

 

TrueBlue2003

March 1st, 2023 at 8:34 PM ^

I'm unclear about whether this is the general game thread or just big ten?  Seems like the Wednesday rooting guide should be the game thread but now I'm all like:

 

TrueBlue2003

March 1st, 2023 at 8:43 PM ^

Disaster is a bit hyperbolic but yes, it shrinks the bubble by one.  Disappointing for sure.  This isn't quite over yet though.

One thing I mentioned on the other thread, I don't get how Providence is being viewed so favorably.  Their resume isn't that good.  They could be in big trouble if they lose this weekend to Seton Hall.

And while I think Michigan would have been better off overall if Pitt climbed into the top 50, this high margin loss tonight could put them in some trouble too.  I doubt it but maybe if they also lose the next two.

bronxblue

March 1st, 2023 at 9:16 PM ^

Pitt's resume is weaker than Michigan's with a loss today; it's a Q3 loss late and if they don't beat Miami on the road that's a rough end to the year.  Pitt at this point wasn't likely to be a Q1 win for UM and so you'd rather they fall down the bubble and open a spot for Michigan.  A lot of the newer brackets had Pitt closer to a low 10/high 11 seed than the #9 seed they were aggregating in the matrix, and a loss here will be huge.

TrueBlue2003

March 1st, 2023 at 9:31 PM ^

Look, I wish you were correct, but Pitt is 4-3 (57%) in q1 which is so much better than Michigan's 3-10 (23%) that their overall resume is still clearly better.

And that's reflected in Pitt being a 9 seed on 19 of the 41 brackets that were updated today with an overall average of 9.83.  They'll drop but still not even that close to the cut line when there are six 11 seeds.  And losing at Miami this weekend won't meaningfully hurt them.

So they'd also need to lose another bad one early in the ACC tourney to even be close to the cut line and even then they're still probably safe.

And they had a very good shot to get to top 50.  They were very close to start the night, just needed to exceed expectations by a few points the rest of the way.  That was far more likely than losing to a bad team early in the ACC.

bronxblue

March 1st, 2023 at 9:54 PM ^

But Pitt being 4-3 in Q1 games highlights how weak their schedule is overall; Michigan may be 3-10 but that means they've also played 13 Q1 opponents to Pitt's 7.  And overall Pitt's only played 14 total games against Q1 and 2 teams while they've now got multiple Q3 and Q4 losses.  

I've long be suspect of the Matrix because of its clustering and the somewhat-obtuse way by which they're included.  For example, the sole 8th-seeded vote for Pitt today was from a guy who listed them as the auto-bid, which I presume means he thinks they're going to win the ACC tournament.  There doesn't appear to be any logic to that, only a vibes feeling.  To the NET/Kenpom/Torvik crowd they're a middling team that is solidly on the bubble, and so I tend to trust those over a site that probably works in the aggregate at the end but individually feels like a lot of noise.

I may well be wrong but losing to a bad ND team isn't going to help their cause and its my belief that playing so few Q1 games, even with a solid winning percentage, will hurt them.  Clemson is in a similar boat (they've got a 4-3 record in Q1 games) but they aren't close to the bubble because like Pitt they've only played 12 games against Q1 and 2 teams and they've got losses to Q3 and 4 teams.  

I don't think UM is going to back into a bid and they have to keep winning but if they close with a split and a first-round BTT win that's likely enough to get them into the tournament.

TrueBlue2003

March 1st, 2023 at 10:06 PM ^

It doesn't matter that Michigan has played a bunch more q1 games if they've lost all of them (more than all of them in fact).  You're way overvaluing SoS.  Still need to win the games on your schedule and Pitt has won a far higher % of their tough games.  The whole point of the quadrants is to level differences in SoS.  Q1 games are all Q1.  So then it's just a matter of how well you did against that quadrant.

You're arguing against the matrix which, ok, good luck.  The matrix has been incredibly accurate over the years, far more than any individual because of the phenomenon of the wisdom of the crowd which is remarkably fascinating in itself, btw.  You can't focus on what one person thinks about one data point. The whole idea is that the collective wisdom vastly outperforms individuals over the long run.  That example you gave is nothing more than noise.  There are others to the other direction that balance it out.

Maybe they get dinged more than I expect after tonight (wish they hadn't made that late comeback to make it more respectable) but we'll wait til we see the brackets.

I don't think UM is going to back into a bid and they have to keep winning but if they close with a split and a first-round BTT win that's likely enough to get them into the tournament.

I completely agree with this.  But I think the teams that Michigan will pass that are currently ahead of them will be some combo of UNC, ASU, Wisconsin, Miss St., ASU, USC, and Ok State (they need to pass at least three of those).

Pitt is highly unlikely to be left out. Even after tonight.  They had a much better chance of moving up to top 50.

bronxblue

March 1st, 2023 at 9:11 PM ^

Auburn was the second-rated 10 seed per Bracket Matrix.  If they had lost to Bama and Tennessee and then got bounced from the SEC tourney early maybe they're in trouble but otherwise that seemed unlikely.  

Pitt losing feels like it might be helpful; had the Panthers split these last two games (beaten ND and lost to Miami) they wouldn't have jumped into the top 50 of NET anyway so that's not a Q1 win and instead they're going to tumble down the bubble with a loss here.  That helps Michigan.

Michigan has to keep winning games but the idea a single game is a "disaster" is needlessly hyperbolic.  

Tunneler

March 1st, 2023 at 9:31 PM ^

How unaware do you have to be to chuck up a 3 pt attempt with a 2 point lead & less than 50 seconds to play with 25 seconds still on the shot clock?

True Blue 9

March 1st, 2023 at 9:52 PM ^

That’s a rough way to lose for Auburn. If we can get Northwestern to win, it’s actually a pretty decent night overall. UNLV winning would be icing on the cake for sure. 

bronxblue

March 1st, 2023 at 10:22 PM ^

Yeah, Key seemed to have gotten hurt heading into January and never quite recovered so maybe just not trying to run the offense through him helped them?  It's been weird.

Michigan has played well without Jett so I wonder if he makes the trip and plays tomorrow how that'll affect the team.

ak47

March 1st, 2023 at 11:58 PM ^

Michigan hasn’t played that well without Jett. We just barely beat an at best mediocre but really not great Wisconsin team at home after letting them score extremely efficiently in the second half. If we play at that level this week we go 0-2 

ST3

March 1st, 2023 at 10:58 PM ^

Pickett should’ve shot that. 3 feet from the basket. Reminded me of the GR3 play vs. PU until he passed out. Good look for Funk.