OT: Talking Cars Tuesday - Brand Nevers

Submitted by JeepinBen on

Lots of families have "their" brands. It's why many of us are Wolverine fans. Some folks fathers were Ford Truck guys, their father was a Ford Truck guy, etc. Infiniti even has a commercial taking a dig at BMW with this brand loyalty ethos at its center.

So - are you a brand loyalist? And/or is there something that you'll NEVER buy again? (this crowd seems to like the hate, so I mean, what did that Ford do to you?) Let's hear some stories

WolvinLA2

May 17th, 2016 at 11:44 AM ^

I was a Prius driver.  Some of us don't like paying more for gas than we need to, especially those of us who drive a ton for our jobs and live in big, spread our cities like Los Angeles.  Don't judge, homey.

My brand "never" is Dodge.  I'm currently driving a Dodge Journey because my current employer gives us a company car (which I love, so I'm not complaining) but if I were spending my own money I'd never touch this piece of shit.  My wife also had a VW Routan which is just a rebadged Dodge Caravan and it was awful as well.  I'd say stay away from anything Chrysler, just to be safe.

Also, my wife recently traded that minivan in for the new Mini Clubman and she loves it.  And although I never thought I'd like Minis, I think it's pretty cool too.  

JeepinBen

May 17th, 2016 at 11:49 AM ^

It's good at what it does - point A to point B. I think that it's a cycle - those that drive a prius rarely are those that enjoy driving... so the thought is that they're not as good a driver.

Re: Minis - it's a BMW under there, so it should be fun. Only thing I have against minis is the  price premium - but again, if you get a deal, who cares?

WolvinLA2

May 17th, 2016 at 11:59 AM ^

You're making a lot of leaps there, my friend.  I love driving, but most of my time is either spent with 2 kids in the back or in traffic, so spending money on a car with a lot of quickness just doesn't make sense.  And some people find themselves in the point of their life where they value practicality over fun.  I don't think that says anything about how much they enjoy driving or how good of a driver they are.

WolvinLA2

May 17th, 2016 at 12:23 PM ^

They certainly aren't. Just like the shoes I wear most aren't good for playing basketball, that doesn't mean I don't like playing basketball. But sometimes you have to prioritize other things because of your lifestyle. To me, access to the carpool lane has more value than "fun to drive." That does mean I don't enjoy driving or am bad at it. If I could have afforded a Tesla, I would have drivien that, but most of them time you can't get everything you want. And as much as many "car guys" would like to think so, what kind of car you drive doesn't always say that much about you.

Trebor

May 17th, 2016 at 12:12 PM ^

I used to own a WRX, which was a lot of fun. Except the 22ish mpg on premium gas, with a 60 mile round trip commute to a job I hated. Eventually, around 140k miles, it was time for something new because I was looking at probably 3k in repairs to pass Pennsylvania's annual safety inspection. So I bought a Honda CR-Z because it was the cheapest low mileage used car that gets good mileage and has a manual to trick myself into thinking it's fun. And found a dealer giving me way more than the car was worth on trade in.

Then of course I got a new job in Oregon, to which I can easily bike to work, and wish I had my fun car again. But the moral of the story is, sometimes you have to make a sacrifice when it comes to your car, especially if you have a finite budget.

drjaws

May 17th, 2016 at 5:15 PM ^

Chevy's/GMCs look extremely stupid in my opinion, and every Ford I have ever owned had electrical problems.

The only truck I have ever owned that looks awesome and doesn't break down after 100,000 miles is a Dodge Ram.  I have owned a couple well over 100,000 miles and the only thing I have ever had to replace was front bearings/hub and rotors.  My brother only owns Ford trucks and is always having a cylinder go out, transmission issues, spark plug ejection (probaly related to bad cylinder), head gasket leaks . . . .

JeepinBen

May 17th, 2016 at 3:04 PM ^

So I don't mean to argue with you more, but I get to "Well, actually" so "Well, Actually!"

At 95MPH the Prius is probably better (and worse!) than lots of other vehicles. One thing the Prius has going for it is its shape. It's extremely aerodynamic, which would make it use less energy at higher speed. At 60mph, 2/3rds of a car's energy is pushing air out of the way.

That said, the prius has heavy hybrid batteries that it lugs around. Weight is bad for just about everything (acceleration, handling, braking, fuel economy). It's part of what got Ford in trouble when they had to edit the CMax's MPG numbers - it's less aerodynamic than the Fusion despite weighing the same.

The interesting thing about Hybrids in general is that they tend to be best <50mph. The batteries can only provide so much energy, so as you increase your speed above 50ish, the engine has to provide all the additional energy. The atkinson cycle isn't tuned to be effecient up there, so between the weight and everything else the change in efficiency from 50mph-70mph would be worse in a hybrid than a conventional car. (With the Prius's aerodynamics, I'm guessing it gets about 40-45mpg at 75mph despite the weight. About on par with a similar, small conventional gas car)

Howeva - in city driving (like WolvinLA2 does in LA) hybrids shine. The battery can both motivate and charge well, and you'll get better mileage than anything conventional. Which goes back to Wolvin's point - get a car that suits your needs. If your needs are long, fast (70+ mph), highway trips a diesel probably makes the most sense (if VW didn't ruin it in the US). If you drive in the city a Volt or Prius or CMax, etc. would get you the best economy.

WolvinLA2

May 18th, 2016 at 12:38 AM ^

Yeah, I took his comment to mean she was going 95 for a handful of seconds to pass him, not cruising at that speed for an extended period.  The gas mileage of any car isn't all that different if you got 95mph for a quarter of a mile or less.

HermosaBlue

May 17th, 2016 at 6:22 PM ^

Priuses themselves are fine, if unexciting.  It's all the smug emitted by their drivers that I can't stand.

As a former LA resident, I too drove a hybrid.  Just not a Prius.

Agree with WolvinLA2 that the Dodge Journey is a POS.  FCA is trying hard to rehab that brand after it slipped into sheer mediocrity over the past 15 years.

 

 

BlueinOK

May 17th, 2016 at 11:41 AM ^

My family is Ford all the way. Everyone has a Ford. The only one who doesn't is some family that married in. They just don't understand the Ford loyalty. 

JeepinBen

May 17th, 2016 at 11:46 AM ^

Why? Legitimately curious, I think the story behind the loyalty is always interesting. Ever test drive something else?

Part of the VW buying for us has been the dealership, they're just so great to work with, and are the opposite of your typical "salesman"

Benoit Balls

May 17th, 2016 at 12:11 PM ^

when I was born we had a Ford van, then we got another Ford van. The farm trucks we had were Fords. My Dad (who grew up in Ferndale in the 50s and 60s) HATED GMs for many reasons (he was a believer in built in obsolescence).

As I set out on my own, my wife and I became Ford people. We had a good relationship with a salesman at a nearby Ford dealership, who was friends with her Father.  I didnt trust him, but he also knew I wasnt a sheep. we had a mutual respect.  From 2001-2011 we went through 4 different Fords purchased from him (2 Escapes, a Taurus and an F-150).

With my wifes last Escape (a 2011) we had problems with the AC system. Apparently, on those models, the method for removing the mositure from the system produced by the AC was a "desscant bag" which amounted to a heavy-ish cardboard "bag" full of dessicant crystals (similar to the silica crystals you might find in a shoebox). Welp, because the made the "bag" out of cardboard, and its main job was to deal with moisture, the cardboard eventually molds, and then breaks. This releases the dessicant cryatals into the AC system, and rots the entire system out from the inside. The repair job was anywhere from $1800-$2600.

In my research, i found out a number of people had this issue. Ford knew about this issue and didnt issue a recall because it didnt affect safety.  This issue affected us in 2014.  We had purchaed the vehicle 42 months earlier.  Unfortunately, my wife had a job for a couple of those years that required a lot of drivving 9which is why we got her a new car, safety, reliability etc), and we also moved from Cleveland to Columbus and did a lot of shuttling back and forth, so we were already knocking on the 100k door. We were wout of warranty due to mileage.

I went to the dealer. I went to corporate. iIargued that the mileage doesnt affect the AC system, and since we were withing 48 months, and were loyal customers, they should at least cut me a break on the repairs.  They wouldnt budge.

I will never buy a Ford again.

Benoit Balls

May 17th, 2016 at 1:45 PM ^

 The first Taurus was bought by her parents so she'd have a reliable car to drive to and from college, the first Escape was her law school graduation gift (I financed) and the2nd Escape we got because the first Escape had 98 k miles on it, was 4 years old (driving to political events all over the staes adds up the miles), and she had a job where a candidate for Lt. Governor rode in her car a lot (and she put 40k miles on it during that campaign alone). I had my F-150 for 9 yrs

(and dont talk to me about using her personal (and brand new) car as a mule for those slimy motherbleepers. I love my wife, she has a passion, end of story.

And if we're being hyperspecific it was 2001-2015 (when we sold Escape 2) and 4 cars for 2 people in 14 years...Im sorry, what was the question again?

xtramelanin

May 17th, 2016 at 4:38 PM ^

2 fords, a VW, and a dodge.  had a gmc immediately before ford #2. 

as an aside when i lived in socal i bought a used lexus and i will say it was by far the nicest car i have ever owned.  flawless performance, quiet, large, pretty fast, even got 30 mpg. 

carolina blue

May 17th, 2016 at 11:41 AM ^

Dad worked for GM for 30 years. At the employee discount , never saw the financial reasoning to drive anything else.
Driven plenty of rent a cars by other makers and they are all pretty ok I guess, with the noted exception of any Chrysler. They are garbage.




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AFWolverine

May 17th, 2016 at 11:43 AM ^

Loyal Honda owner and driver. Will never own a Nissan Quest again. Ate my patience and pocketbook away too quickly. I will never own a Chrysler either.

Kermits Blue Key

May 17th, 2016 at 11:43 AM ^

I will never buy a Toyota. I admit that they're probably nice enough cars, but I've raged at so many idiots on the road driving beige/gold Toyotas or Prii that I just can't see myself joining that club. 

JeepinBen

May 17th, 2016 at 11:44 AM ^

My wife and I both have VWs. They give a great supplier discount, and it was the best option for me (4 doors, manual, sporty, mature = GTI). We got her car for a steal after the diesel scandal broke. My Mom also has a VW (Supplier Discount), and Dad has an Audi (4 doors, manual trans). Without the great deal my wife probably wouldn't have gotten a VW. They're a big customer for my company, but so is everyone, so I don't feel that loyal.

I don't know that I'm "anti" any one company in particular, but I dread Nissans when I get rentals. I just really dislike CVT transmissions, and that's all they do. And they're bad. And Nissan should feel bad. I would not buy a Nissan (except maybe a Z, if I could convince myself that a coupe was OK).

JeepinBen

May 17th, 2016 at 11:51 AM ^

I'm 29. Married, no kids. I wanted a hot hatch/something sporty with 4 doors. When compared to others in the set (Focus ST, which I test drove, Subaru WRX, Etc) it's the least "Boy Racer" and, with the leather I have, basically an Audi-esque interior. I'm going to have this car till I'm 35... I didn't want  something with a huge wing.

Hail-Storm

May 17th, 2016 at 12:50 PM ^

and just upgraded from my boy racer car (Mazdaspeed 3) to family car (ford explorer sport). I am still keeping my speed3, but need the extra space for the 3rd kid on the way. Sport has a nice engine that gets up and goes, so still a nice drive.

In regards to loyalty, I don't have a lot.  I have really liked Mazdas so far and I am a fan of Ford over the last 8-10 years as they've upgraded their lineup. 

I'm glad you had good dealings with VW. I loved the way my wife's turbo beetle drove, but oh so many electrical problems.  My checkbook did not appriciate that. The dealerships (Suburban in Farmington Hills) also treated my wife like crap when she was trying to get everything fixed. My parents have had a much better experience though with their VWs and dealerships. 

maineandblue

May 17th, 2016 at 11:55 AM ^

I got a GTI back in December and am pertty happy with it. Really wanted a BMW or Audi wagon, but they don't make them in manual anymore. Thought about a WRX wagon, but that's a place I'll never go again after I had the engine replaced on my '02 in rally blue (prettiest car I've ever owned) and it died again after 2 years. Really wanted a Mini Countryman because I like the looks better than the GTI and I like an extra 1.5 inches of ground clearance (I do a lot of camping), but the interior was just nowhere near as nice/sophisticated as in the GTI. 

MaizeAndBlueWahoo

May 17th, 2016 at 11:57 AM ^

I had a Nissan Altima not too long ago as a rental and liked it.  Reason: I drove the 90 or so minutes from Dulles to Charlottesville and the fuel needle stayed on F.  So I said, hmm.  I tooled around town for a couple days, during which the needle finally moved.  I filled up before I left Charlottesville, avoiding the expensive crap next to the airport, and on the drive back to Dulles, the needle once again stayed stuck on F.

Somewhere there's a traveler who went to the Hertz at Dulles Airport and came back saying "fricking Nissan, their fuel economy is bullshit."

gopoohgo

May 17th, 2016 at 11:48 AM ^

GM.  The bailout left a bad taste in my mouth, and how they sat on the ignition issues (and used bankruptcy laws to skirt liability) doubly so.