In reply to by lbpeley

coldnjl

April 12th, 2015 at 11:10 AM ^

He wasn't a great fit....the bowl streak ended, the idea of defense ended, beating good teams ended. It was unfair how he was treated, but at the end of the day, he didn't win. 

On the converse, Hoke was welcomed...but he still didn't win. Both are gone.

lilpenny1316

April 12th, 2015 at 1:10 PM ^

LC had the primary assist on that (using hockey terms).  Sparty took us to OT twice in consecutive years (2004 & 2005) and we needed a Sparty collapse to win in 2007.  Sparty was going to be favored to beat us in 2008 anyways.  Mallett was likely out the door anyways so we would've been breaking in Threet or Sheridan anyways.

And to complete my awful hockey analogy, LC and RR assisted but Dantonio scored the goal.

Double-D

April 12th, 2015 at 1:40 PM ^

1. Losing seasons and losing to MSU over time minimized the Michigan name and brand and made it easier for kids to choose a school that was not in the shadow of the bully.
2. RR failed to recruit our own back yard and gave Dantonio roots in the base.

LC could be a pretty long discussion both good and bad. Both Izzo and MD are good coaches who would never have had all of the successes they have had without our own failures to help them along the way.

snarling wolverine

April 12th, 2015 at 2:48 PM ^

Sparty took us to OT twice in consecutive years (2004 & 2005) and we needed a Sparty collapse to win in 2007.

I don't think that's a fair point. During the 1980s and '90s, MSU beat us about once every 3-4 years. Lloyd beat them six straight times from 2002-07, so it's questionable to argue that our position in the rivalry was weakening.

Also, I don't think it's at all a certainty they'd have been favored in 2008 with Carr around.  He never lost a home game to MSU.  With Carr still around, we wouldn't have had as much attrition and there wouldn't have been the problem of guys not buying in (especially on defense).  I think Carr probably could have squeaked out 6-7 wins.

This isn't to say that it was all RichRod's fault either.  It was a combination of a lot of factors.

 

lilpenny1316

April 12th, 2015 at 3:15 PM ^

That's all I'm saying.  I don't want to rehash all the games against Sparty, but in 2002 they played for a lame duck coach whose starting QB was suspended.  They were a mess.  Every year after that, minus 2006, Sparty could have won those games.  I understand a win is a win, but Sparty was a competent HC away from making some of those close games tilt in their favor.  

I'm only basing that 2008 game and who'd be favored based on Mallett.  I think he was out the door regardless.  But I agree this would have likely been a bowl eligible team.

The Mad Hatter

April 13th, 2015 at 8:53 AM ^

a lot of the players on that 11-2 team were Lloyds recruits.

As for the QB's that RR inherited, maybe he should have worked harder to develop them or adjust his offence to suit their admittedly limited talents.

Jim Harbaugh is solving a similar problem by bringing in a grad transfer.

Michigan4Life

April 13th, 2015 at 3:00 PM ^

and adjusted his offense to them. RR passed the ball more in his first year than he ever had when he was at WVU.  He had to install his system so there would be growing pains but would reap benefits for the long run.  Also, if you seen RR's offense in the past from Tulane to Clemson to WVU to Michigan. He adjusted his offense according to the QB's talent level. They air it out with Shaun King. Balanced with Woodrow Dantzler. Run heavy with Pat White.

Plus, RR encouraged open competition which means the best player play which he did with Tate and Shoelace. 

Cali Wolverine

April 12th, 2015 at 12:46 PM ^

Fact....Rich Rod was treated like shit at Michigan, fact...Rich Rod did not perform at Michigan...partially because he was treated like shit, partially because he sucked at Michigan and was a crappy fit.

All I know is Harbaugh is our coach now...and I would put my money on his career trajectory from this point on at Michigan over Rich Rod's at Arizona. Why do some still dwell on this turd, and how some turds treated him.

HARBAUGH, HARBAUGH, HARBAUGH

UMxWolverines

April 12th, 2015 at 9:47 PM ^

That team doesn't go 11-2 if Tressel isn't forced to resign. They SHOULD have beat us. MSU was a much better team than us that year as well. If we had played Wisconsin we would have been destroyed.

That season was a combination of luck, easy schedule, and the fact that Mattison got us to play pretty good defense

UMxWolverines

April 12th, 2015 at 9:47 PM ^

That team doesn't go 11-2 if Tressel isn't forced to resign. They SHOULD have beat us. MSU was a much better team than us that year as well. If we had played Wisconsin we would have been destroyed.

That season was a combination of luck, easy schedule, and the fact that Mattison got us to play pretty good defense

UMxWolverines

April 12th, 2015 at 9:47 PM ^

That team doesn't go 11-2 if Tressel isn't forced to resign. They SHOULD have beat us. MSU was a much better team than us that year as well. If we had played Wisconsin we would have been destroyed.

That season was a combination of luck, easy schedule, and the fact that Mattison got us to play pretty good defense

MGoNukeE

April 12th, 2015 at 10:41 AM ^

"dude... except for the bad press associated with his buyout that Michigan forced upon him, Braylon's hell-raising about the #1 jersey issued initially to a defensive back, Lloyd Carr's meeting with the players reminding them of their transfer options before he became coach, and being denied the budget to bring Casteel with him, he was welcomed just fine until he went 3-9."

FTFY

MGoNukeE

April 12th, 2015 at 6:04 PM ^

that Rodriguez was not "welcomed fine" at Michigan. Good; I agree that Michigan could have finished better than 3-9 despite these obstacles. 

snarling wolverine

April 12th, 2015 at 11:49 AM ^

The media, yes.  But I don't think many fans had a problem with him when he was hired.  I was at the Utah game in 2008 (his debut) and there was a lot of excitement in the air.  Even when we lost, people were pretty encouraged by the performance.

 (That Utah team went on to go 12-0 and we took them down to the wire . . . odd to think about in retrospect.)

Honk if Ufer M…

April 12th, 2015 at 3:47 PM ^

He left WV sleazy, he came to Michigan sleazy. He was an asshole to the ex coaches and he was an asshole to the players & to all sorts of people. Fuck DickRod. Fuck his incredible series of worst this in history, worst that in 40 years and worst one thing or another every fucking week, and fuck the continuous bullshit about how he got fucked!

MGoNukeE

April 12th, 2015 at 11:50 PM ^

I can't convince you that you're wrong because you've already made up your mind. For someone that still uses 'dickrod' like they're in middle school or feels so butthurt about RR's tenure, you will attempt to discredit everything I say.

An MGoTrial would be pretty dumb, but internet forums are prone to pretty-dumb things anyway. Part of me wants you take you up on your offer, but only if you're willing to find a 3rd party or parties to act as judge/jury. They have to be neutral to the issue though, so good luck finding, well, anyone that doesn't have a biased opinion about RR. I also want to see a list of charges and evidence that indicts RR. It doesn't have to be too formal or anything--I'm no lawyer--but this should be enough to allow for both sides to make their case as complete as possible.

Honk if Ufer M…

April 19th, 2015 at 3:17 PM ^

"I can't convince you that you're wrong because you've already made up your mind."



First of all the trial I mostly facetiously suggested, was basically about the things I said, not really on RR's tenure itself even though I phrased it that way. My bad there I guess.



 Most of what I said is simply factual and can be looked up, the stuff about his continual negative record breaking. The stuff about his leaving sleazy, I don't remember much of the details anymore, but I remember what my impression was at the time based on news reports of the events. If you have no other info on that aspect than I do then it will be a matter of our perceptions and arguments about what is or isn't sleazy. That would involve researching and rereading a bunch of crap that I don't know if I'm that interested in or not, haha. I think we've both made up our minds but that doesn't mean my mind can't be changed with good enough evidence or arguments.



As far as coming sleazy, part of that is tied into the leaving part, but aside from that, firing all the assistents publicly and stating that they could interview if they wanted to stay was both sleazy and stupid IMO given that he didn't have his own staff he was already bringing.



Why not just interview them first to find out who even wanted to stay or not, and then just evaluate them on whether they could coach his plans or not, if he liked them etc., and then decide who to keep or not? Even if he already knew he didn't actually want to keep them it's more respectful then firing them first, publicly, without even talking to any of them yet. What would be the harm in that? If I felt that was treating them badly then I bet so did all the high school coaches, scouts, people in the progam & athletic dept who had good relationships with those coaches and that must have hurt recruiting.



The other thing was, and you're the one downing me for language, he was swearing at his players and berating them as a matter of course. From what I understand, not in a Bo way, where he would swear out of anger based on something you did or said, but just in an abusive/drill sargeant way of referring to people as shitheads, assholes and dumbasses for no reason and humiliating people without cause or just cause.



"For someone that still uses 'dickrod' like they're in middle school or feels so butthurt about RR's tenure, you will attempt to discredit everything I say."



I suppose I use "dickrod" like I'm in middle school, although in my day we had junior high not middle school, but I also use it like I'm an adult who swears & is willing to name call when it seems like the thing to do.

This guy was using much worse language to and about his players. Goose/Gander.



 I didn't mean it in a juvenile beavis/butthead kind of way or for immature sexual connotations, but just as a way to call him a dick, which is no different than asshole or bad person or mean person. I would never use a silly term like dickrod as a matter of choice for no reason, but in this case it came naturally because of his nickname. If he didn't have the nickname I'd have just said he was a dick or an asshole and you wouldn't have the same impression.



This guy rubbed me the wrong way from the start in many ways for many reasons and I think he was an asshole to people. I think an asshole should be called an asshole sometimes. Calling him dickrod as both a mocking of his nickmame and as a form of calling him an asshole is mildly amusing, to me at least, and pretty mild as far as name calling or insults go, objectively I think. I mean if he wasn't called RichRod and I made that up out of the blue it would probably be less mild, but when it's as much a play on words for the semi-humor of it as it was purely name calling, nah.



One of the reasons I like this blog is that language isn't censored and intelligent people use or read "bad" language without it being cause for idiots to discredit people when the substance of what they're saying is legit.. usually anyway. People here are usually smart enough to understand that the cliche repudiations of people that swear are utter bullshit, such as it being a sign that they have a poor vocabulary or that they lose the argument because of it or shouldn't be listened to because of it, etc., void of other reasons.



"An MGoTrial would be pretty dumb, but internet forums are prone to pretty-dumb things anyway. Part of me wants you take you up on your offer, but only if you're willing to find a 3rd party or parties to act as judge/jury. They have to be neutral to the issue though, so good luck finding, well, anyone that doesn't have a biased opinion about RR. I also want to see a list of charges and evidence that indicts RR. It doesn't have to be too formal or anything--I'm no lawyer--but this should be enough to allow for both sides to make their case as complete as possible"



I didn't really mean that I wanted a mock trial, I just used the phrase mgotrial because people here make up a lot of words that begin with "mgo." What I really meant was, since I was being downvoted, point out to me where I was wrong in what I said and why I deserved the negs using facts or good arguments, and we could hash that out & try to get to the truth of it.



I do want to have a mock trial on some call in political talk shows I listen to because that's much more serious & the hosts are doing real harm to real people and the planet & I know that if given the chance I could prove to the audiences that they're being conned and lied to and led down destructive paths and I could offer great alternative ideas.

Honk if Ufer M…

April 19th, 2015 at 2:05 PM ^

I already added a personal knowledge story that wasn't public and I'd be very surprised if there had been previous inside stories on that particular subject but I could be wrong. I have other inside stories too because I always know lots of Michigan athletes. Even though I knew some football players during the RR dark age I don't remember hearing anything one way or the other about him. On the other hand I heard things from athletes in other sports who had encounters or observations to report on, including from friends and girlfriends of FB players.

 

Tater

April 12th, 2015 at 10:18 AM ^

Rich Rod is in a great place right now.  I'm happy he landed on his feet.  He has had no problem competing in the Pac 12, though USC and Oregon are going to be difficult to beat due to their, uh, "active" boosters.