OT: North Dakota Fighting Hawks release first logo
Not bashing the Sioux if they were, but just curious as to where the decision on this came from. I think the Fighting Sioux is a much better name.
Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad
It's the Sioux...they're always fighting.
Lol jk nope, it was white people.
If I recall, some Sioux were quite happy with it and some were not.
Like any group of people, you can have multiple self-appointed "leaders" who claim to speak for everyone. It's hard to know who to listen to, so they err on the side of not offending a single person.
Of course, there are some people who take pride in being offended by everything.
So Fighting Generic's it is.
BTW, I think "Fighting Generics" would be an outstanding name. This could be their logo:
Who's gonna argue with that?
There were multiple Sioux groups who had a stake in the decision (2, IIRC). One group was OK with it, the other was not. Ergo, the name and insignia had to go.
Neither tribe was opposed to the name; one just abstained from taking an official position while the other officially supported it.
I don't think that's accurate. This article says the Standing Rock Tribal Council voted to formally oppose the name in 1992, 1998, 2005, 2007 and 2011. There was supposed to be a tribal vote on it but it never happened.
http://billingsgazette.com/sports/college/native-american-community-rem…
The tribal vote was what the NCAA wanted. It interpreted the lack of a vote as an abstention.
99% certain a bunch of Oberlin kids hopped in a van over spring break and occupied the administrative offices of ND until the higher ups gave them a crappy PC logo.
The NCAA has requested that schools with Native American tribal mascots receive approval from those tribes to keep using them, or else it will deny them the right to host official NCAA events. FSU (Seminoles) and CMU (Chippewas) are two schools that have received tribal permission.
In the case of North Dakota, there are two Sioux tribes concerned. IIRC, one voted in a referendum in favor of the name, while the other never held a vote because its tribal constitution doesn't have a provision for referendums. This was then interpreted by the NCAA as a lack of tribal support, and it demanded that UND drop the name.
Are you an ageist? Because it kinda sounds like you are.
Yeah, it got a tad bit racist when they started justifying America's political and cultural domination over American Indians.
And the tribal council of the second tribe (Standing Rock) had numerous votes opposing the use of the name and mascot.
Actually, they never held a referendum. You may be thinking of student groups who were opposed.
In 2006, the UND Indian Association student group voted 26-2 to oppose the Fighting Sioux name, and UND reached a settlement agreement a year later with the NCAA, giving them three years to acquire approval from two tribes in the state. The Spirit Lake Sioux Tribe passed a referendum in 2009 in support of using the nickname, but the Standing Rock Sioux tribe failed to ever put a referendum up for discussion.http://billingsgazette.com/sports/college/native-american-community-rem…
They never held a referendum of all tribal members but the tribal council apparantly passed several "sense of the tribe" resolutions opposing the mascot.
I think we can conclude, at any rate, that there wasn't unified support for the name, and for a public university it's probably for the best that they let it go.
I'm glad we picked an animal instead.
As someone who has lived in North Dakota and is a graduate of the University of North Dakota I can assure you that you are incorrect. The NCAA and the PC brigade needed a school to railroad and UND provided them the perfect opportunity. Why do I say this? Because UND was not offered the same terms for keeping the name that the likes of Florida State were offered.
The NCAA said Florida State had to get permission from the Seminole tribe located within the borders of Florida in order to keep the name. The NCAA told UND that they had to get permission from the Sioux tribes located in North Dakota and South Dakota. The North Dakota Sioux tribe (Spirit Lake) gave UND permission 50 years ago and are HUGE supporters of the previous name. They've gone as far as asking the NCAA to allow UND to be called the Spirit Lake Fighting Sioux which the NCAA somehow thought was racist. The other Sioux tribe (Standing Rock) is located in South Dakota was supposed to have a tribal vote on the name. This never happened as their tribal Chairman wouldn't allow the vote to take place as he was personally against the name. Surveys from Standing Rock showed that permission would have been granted at an estimated approval over 75%.
UND was railroaded by social justice warriors that were looking for a feather in their cap. We were called idiots, racists and hostile by people that have never even stepped foot into the state and noone paid any attention because, frankly, its North Dakota. If what happened to North Dakota had happened to a big time power 5 school the NCAA would have burned to the ground.
Just a final tidbit of information, the Fighting Sioux logo was created and designed by a Sioux native (obviously a racist one).
Sorry, but any take that includes the phrases "Social Justice Warriors" and "PC brigade" is a take I receive with a grain of salt.
/delicately walks away
My boss is a UND grad -- his answer is a vehement no. Contends this is all NCAA PC bullshit.
I thought I heard there are two predominant Sioux tribes. One totally cool with it and the other couldn't come to an agreement with the university, and thus there's some NCAA rule that says if you can't get agreement from the tribe you have to switch? That is ringing a bell and would make sense as to why FSU is allowed to carry on unimpeded
They did a pretty nice job on that. A little on the "generic sports team" side, but not ugly by any means. Simple and classy.
Meh. If you are forced to make a change like this, why go so generic?
Red Men => Red Hawks. Fighting Siuox => Fighting Hawks. (And what's with "Hawks" as the PC safe zone?)
*Yawn*
Opportunity wasted.
The worst was EMU going to Eagles. Blah. EMU Emus would have been amazing.
Indeed. Total missed opportunity.
certainly biased. But, I think down the road these tribes may regret calling for this change. On the positive side, use of these names seems to me to help keep alive their tribe's history. Plus, who knows what licensing opportunities might be economically advantageous to both parties. To me, better to take the Seminole tribe's approach and work out a unique relationship like they have with FSU that honors the culture and sets guidelines for continued respect in use of the name. (That having been said, I also can see where the name "Redskins" would be not be acceptable under any standard, despite it's long being in use in the NFL.)
I'm one quarter Chickasaw and I think it's bullshit. Also most other american indians don't care about the name Redskins and many are fans. That one 99% Navajo school's mascot is the Redskins. I think it's a source of pride that your tribe was so respected and prominent in the area that a school would name themselves the Sioux or the Seminoles or the Chippewas.
I was filling out some paper work a few weeks ago and I was asked about my ethnic hertiage. The woman who asked commented, "How shameful. This software is brand new and they still use the term "American Indian" instead of "Native American." She refused to believe me when I informed her that many Native America groups REFER TO THEMSELVES as Indians. Then she asked what my answer was, and I said, "Oh, I am an American Indian."
While I don't care much either way, it's amazing to me the amount of sanctimonious blowhards that truly believe they are morally superior when they point this stuff out.
You don't get it man, the PC crowd is morally superior to us. Only they know what's best for all minority groups, not the people of those groups.
Guessing you've been negged by @FolkstyleCoach
Troll on all you SJWs!!!!If you have seen me post on here before you might notice that negs and SJW's don't concern me much haha.
Also, just incase you were unaware before you made it your signature, George Bernard Shaw DESPISED Jews. Thought they were the scum of the earth.
I didn't know that. Thanks for the info. Removing my signature now.
It's a reversed bell curve... the most outspoken 10% get their way. The other 90% be damned.
But, I think down the road these tribes may regret calling for this change.
In most cases, it has not been the tribes themselves asking for name changes. It's been the NCAA and various other organizations.
It's okay. Though I think that Sioux logo is gaudy as fuck.
Logo is meh.
Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad
If you think about it, a lot of sports teams have very generic names. How many teams are named after Tigers? Lions, Birds, Panthers, Bees, Bears, Horses, etc. The names have been around for so long that we don't think of them like that.
Yeah, but they tend to have a good reason for the name. When you go from something cool like Fighting Sioux to something blah like Fighting Hawks, you've been "forced" to change by offended social justice warriors, so you get shell shock and decide to make absolutely sure nobody is offended. It doesn't matter if nobody likes the name, just so long as nobody hates it.
and decide to make absolutely sure nobody is offended. It doesn't matter if nobody likes the name, just so long as nobody hates it.I mean...shouldn't that be the goal of every sports team name? It's just a name. Shouldn't bring any negative attention.
I'd argue the goal of a sports team name is to give the fans of that team - or really, people associated with it - something to identify with and rally around. If nobody likes the name or wants to fire up for it, that means the name is a failure, regardless of who it doesn't offend.
Maybe "goal" was the wrong word to use. But I think a team name should be offensive to 0% of fans. We're never going to have to worry about changing the name "Wolverines," and that's how it should be. In a few years "Fighting Hawks" will seem completely normal.
I will sort of miss the Fighting Sioux logo because it is a pretty classic look in its own way, but the new one isn't bad really - very clean but with some good lines in it. If we had been talking classic logos and not helmets, I am sure their old look probably would have made a lot of lists, as it should have, in my opinion.
Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad
Wasn't that Montana?
WD, the North Dokata fans don't like your take on their new logo, and they're not afraid to tell you about it:
