.....you really CANNOT stop. Good riddance, Manny.
OT: Manny Ramirez Retires to Avoid Suspension
I hope that Manny's continued use of female fertility drugs will pay off and finally allow him to become a mother.
It does seem like he has wanted to devote more time to his future family over the past few seasons....
It's just Manny being mammary!
he is one of the best players in the last 50 years and you have to respect him no matter how he played
Umm no we don't. Do you respect every cheater?
he is one of the best pure hitters of all time and as a baseball fan i respect his ability and you are aware than there were over 300 players on the initial mitchell report so you have probably supported and respected a cheater. just because he cheated doesnt mean you cant respect him if you have watched him play baseball you would understand that you either love or hate manny but you respect what he can do with a baseball bat
you have probably supported and respected a cheater.
Most of us drop our support and lose respect for players once cheating is unveiled. In case you didn't know.
Ramirez might be one the best pure hitters in the league today, but I have a hard time saying he's one the best of all time.
Maybe it's just because I think Ichiro's better and doesn't cheat.
Ichiro and Manny are completely different players and each is great in his own right, but I don't think it is fair to say Ichiro is better than Ramirez. 555 Homeruns, .312 career Avg. He averaged 39 home runs and 129 RBIs per 162 games for his career Which is pretty remarkable. I think it is completely fair to refer to him as one of the greatest hitters in history. Ichiro is a great player all around but nothing more than a fantastic singles hitter. He's only topped 30 doubles 3 times in his career and never more than 40, something Ramirez accomplished several years. Say what you want about whether or not he's a cheater, but Ramirez had a hell of a lot of natural talent too.
than RBIs (putting aside cheating, for the sake of argument here), you can look at Manny's .996 OPS and compare that to Ichiro's total of .805. For comparison's sake, Ryan Raburn is just a touch under .800. So unless you're taking cheating into account, and probably even if you aren't, Manny is way better than Ichiro.
And I don't want to hear about Ichiro's .331 batting average because even with that, he STILL doesn't even get on base as frequently as Manny did.
Manny, despite in fact being a great hitter and kind of a jovial guy, is also an ass that quit on his own team in order to get a new contract, paid little attention to defense, costing several games through comical lack of attention to getting better at it, AND he cheated throughout his career. I have no respect for him, but it's not just because he cheated, it's because he's a bad guy.
that not any of the things you mentioned had anything to do with hitting baseballs, which is what I was talking about. And I didn't forget about the cheating either. You might have noticed the word worked its way into my post.
Being an ass has nothing to do with hitting ability. Ty Cobb had a career OPS of .945 (about the same as Miggy) and by all accounts was one of the worst human beings to ever play the game. Doesn't change his ability to hit the ball.
which I didn't address because I agreed with your point. I just think there are a lot of reasons to not respect Manny, as I stated, and some are baseball related, not just personality related. With regard to hitting, facts are facts, he's elite.
Ty Cobb never tested positive for a drug that made him bigger,faster and stronger.
Manny any faster. Bigger and stronger, maybe, but not faster. Have you seen him on the base paths?
Having been a fan of Manny (at the plate only-not in the field or on the base paths) since he first came up with the Indians, I think Manny may be one of the few players who I'd believe if he said he didn't know what was in the cream/pill/shake/whatever. He's really that dumb, as anyone who watched him in Cleveland will tell you. During the OJ trial, Manny thought Tribe pitcher Chad Ogea (pronounced "OJ") was the defendant; when Ogea showed up for a game, Manny offered to hide him, thinking Ogea had busted out of jail and was on the run.
Manny has 71 WAR in 17.
Ichiro is a career .354 wOBA hitter with a career UZR of 126. Manny is a career .417 wOBA player with a career UZR of -155.
Just eyeballing it, they're pretty close.
about overall baseball players here, but I'm fairly certain the original argument was about pure hitting. If it's strickly hitting, like I'm arguing about, then it's Manny and it's not even close.
then yes, Manny Ramirez is one of the greatest pure hitters of all time. His numbers are virtually identical to Frank Thomas.
Not only do I not like that he is a cheater but I can't stand his character. I honestly think he is quite stupid. Correct me if I'm wrong but is he the first person to get caught twice using steroids? I don't even want to get started on his fielding.
The first time wasn't steroids. It was a female fertility drug typically used when players are cycling off steroids IIRC.
Uhh he took those fertility drugs to cover up those steroids. It's pretty well known.
Do you respect him?
He's won a lot of games over the years, proving that he is a good coach. Has one national championship and has made it to I believe 3 NC games. Has won BCS games and does better in rivalry games than maybe any coach in OSU history. I hate him for obvious reasons but I did respect him because he seemed less douchy than guys like Saban, Kiffen, and Spurrier. That went out the window when it came out his cheating directly led to wins. Tressel manipulated the game by playing people that he knew would be ineligable. Without those players he loses a couple of games early and their season is dead. OSU doesn't go to the Sugar Bowl and the school doesn't get the massive pay day.
I don't see how his manipulation is bad and Manny's two failed tests and countless character issues is ok because "he's a great hitter". He can be a great hitter, when he wants to be.
Michigan "cheated" when it stretched too much. Tressel might be paying players or allowing payers to be paid by boosters.
This all depends on where you think steroids fall on the spectrum. I think steroids are like stretching too much, or like throwing a spitball, not like Tressel or Pete Rose or the Black Sox.
but I also don't give a shit about steroids.
Maybe one of the best hitters. And probolly the fielder in the history of baseball.
Word. It's not like the rest of the league wasn't juicing.
Manny was always going to go out like this. Not shocked in the least. Even if it wasn't drugs, he was going to do something similar somehow.
Poor Rays...They were already 0-6 with him.
How many years before they make the playoffs again?
then in another 10 years the yanks and red sox will take everyone good from their team
In defense of the Red Sox and Yankees, they have done a fantastic job drafting and developing players from within in recent years.
Um, one or two players that have been developed in the last decade doesn't count.
Yankees: Hughes, Posada, Jeter, CANO, Chamberlain, Rivera.
Red Sox: Lester, Buchholz, Papelbon, Pedroia, Youkilis, Ellsbury, Varitek, Daniel Bard
I think its far to say that BOTH teams have done a great job developing talent.
That's more than1 or 2 players in the past 15 years.
How many key players have the Tigers developed that are still on their roster? Inge (not really a good player), Verlander (ace), Porcello (has potential), Bennan Boesch (though he has serious flaws in his swing).
The Sox traded Heathcliff Slocumb to the Mariners for Derrick Lowe and Jason Varitek in one of the great heists of all time.
I forgot about that trade (I was 6 at the time). My bad.
Homegrown Red Sox on the current roster:
That's the core of the team. The Sox have a really good farm system. The Yankees do too. They developed Jeter, Rivera and Posada, Cano and others.
THIS GUY knows what I'm talkin about
players but i dont think the yankees are as good theyve traded away a lot of their farm system in the past years (Ajax trade) but i do think they have a great GM at hand and if they dont resign cashman and the tigers dont keep Dombroski they should do their best to get him.
I realize they have much more flexibilty when it comes to payroll so they can do a lot more. But can you blame them? If the Tigers had that kind of money, wouldn't you want them to spend it? So while I think it's unfair that they have such a competitive advantage when it comes to payroll, they aren't breaking any rules*. So I don't think it is fair to criticize them for spending more than other teams.
*I am in support of some sort of salary cap system in MLB
The Rays'll be better without him, He was washed-up with the Dodgers last year even hitting-wise, fielding went bye-bye years ago.
of Manny last year was still better than most hitters in baseball.
Um, not to be a buzz kill, but I bet almost every MLB team has had a star player or former star player that was using PED's. As a Tigers's fan, I hate to say it, but I would bet the Pudge wasn't clean for large parts of his career.
As a fellow Tigers fan, I was devastated when I learned of Alex Sanchez's steroid use. It totally cheapened the three home runs he hit over his great Tigers career.
that like every player in baseball was on greenies in the 70s, a fact we've somehow conveniently purged from any discussion of PEDs.
And that we have absolutely no idea how much steroids help baseball performance.
that plenty of shitty players took steroids too, so one can argue that even with knowledge of players using, those stars were still the most naturally gifted hitters in the game, whether they had roided or not.
Bonds allegedly started using after 1998. He already had 411 homeruns. He already had been crushing balls over the wall.
To piggy back on your comment, steroids are not going to help you hit a ball. You have to have the hand eye coordination. Roids might help you hit it farther and HGH might help you recover from injury faster, but neither is going to make your hands swing a bat in such a way that it hits a little round ball.
Doesn't matter how big of an advantage it is, it's still an advantage. You go against the rules you're going to be called a cheater,simple as that.I will never understand defending people who cheat.
After Red Sox manager Dan Duquette signed Manny to the biggest contract in club history he was nervous about his investment. He watched the first few weeks of the season and noticed on more than one occasion that an umpire had to tell Manny to take first after ball 4. He caught up with Manny in the clubhouse after a game and asked him straight up, "why are you having to be told to go to first base after ball 4?". Manny's answered that he doesn't keep track of the balls.
I'm gonna miss that guy.
some people didn't see the humor that he had but i've laughed pretty hard at some of the stuff he's done like leaving left field and going into the green monster to hang out with the boxscore guy in there. the guy could hit for mad power along for average he is just like a smaller Miguel Cabrera in the pure hitter aspect and i'd like to see him become a TV commenter because he can disect the game while doing it in a funny way. Kevin Millar said it best today on MLB network today saying how when he heard about the first drug thing he was in complete shock because the guy spent hours in the batting cage perfecting his swing then before games would study all the pitchers and help all the other players on the team with their hitting. Hopefully he doesnt just leave the game and vanish for years like Bernie Williams has done
Bernie hasn't disappeared completely. He hasn't been around baseball because he's been busy touring as a jazz guitarist. His two albums have been #2 & #3 on the jazz charts. He was also nominated for a latin grammy.
The basketball player Wayman Tisdale was also a well respected jazz guitarist cranking out 8 albums before he died of cancer in 2009.
And he shouldn't. The man hit baseballs. That's it, but he was really good at it.
I'm going out like Manny... except with Peyote.
This makes me laugh. Fabulous talent, but crazy and the crazy won out.
The guy was full of flaws, but some of my greatest sports memories as a Red Sox fan were thanks to him. His swing was pure perfection; every at bat of his seemed like must watch TV. Do I respect Manny the person? Eh, I don't know. I do know that I respect the hell out of Manny the player, and will forever be grateful for his role as one of the 25 in 04 and 07.
You said it perfectly. It's impossible not to admire the way he hit.
He should of just used HGH , at least they don't test for that in the MLB
Real shame how far he fell. Back in 2004 that guy was dangerous. Then he got dealt, but he still was pretty good with the Dodgers pre-suspension. Now he's all trash after he got busted for using female fertility drugs.
At least this shows MLB won't take crap in terms of drug abuse anymore. 100 games. 100 games! Don't drug up.