OT: John Thompson: Butler/VCU Natl Champ = All-time Cinderella
I disagree*.
While Butler, an 8-seed like 1983 NC State and 1985 Villanova, would tie for the lowest seed to win the championship, there are no Houston or Georgetown juggernauts filled with the best 19-22 year olds out there. You could fill up all of the 2011 at-large slots with players that would still be elgible but have left for the NBA. Early entries just from 2010
1983 Houston Roster
Talent you won't find on present-day college rosters
Other supporting NBA-level talent
1985 Georgetown Roster
Talent you won't find on present-day college rosters
Other supporting NBA-level talent
The '83 and '85 upsets were from a 30ish team beating a #1 that was fully loaded w/ the best 19-22yr olds. By contrast, Butler, or VCU is more like a #50 winning a tournament of only #20 and down.
*In fairness to John Thompson, he was asked this question on-air and just gave an off-the-cuff answer.
So boring.
The consideration that 1-seeds now aren't like 1 seeds then is an interesting thought. And how am I going to kill the next 15 minutes as I've already seen the Mgoblue videos on practice twice.
Michael Jackson.
Butler is the perfect Cinderella IMO. A #8 seed from the Horizon conference. Who would expect a national title opportunity?
Of course he's going to say that. Just like we want some other I-AA team to beat a top 10 opponent so people don't have to bring up the App State game.
Have a laugh at Jim's new Vest
We can always point and laugh at VT for losing to Boise State and then JMU.
Georgetown came to play but Nova was just on fire all game long. It was once in a lifetime great game by Nova. I think they shot 71% for the entire game which is amazing. This is the same Nova team who got killed by more than 15-20 points against Georgetown. 9 out of 10 times, Georgetown would win this game.
I think it would be the all time upset. The reason is Butler is a Mid-major school competing against the big boys. I don't remember any Mid-major school winning a National Championship. Heck I'm not even sure the Horizon league is considered a mid major?? It's not like the NC STate team that won the title in 1983. It may have been an upset based on record but at least that was an ACC school puling off the upset. If Butler wins it would be very very special.
UNLV a mid-major school?
That team is what the Fab 5 would have become as Juniors and Seniors. It would/could have been a 4-year run not seen since UCLA.
Oh wait, the Fab 5 never existed...
Butler should have been at least a 4. They made the title game last year, and don't really qualify as a "Cinderella." VCU, though, may have been the all-time Cinderella. My vote, though, goes to Texas Western, beating mighty Kentucky with a then-unprecedented NCAA Championship Game lineup of five black starters in 1966. They may not have been a Cinderella team on the floor, but they certainly were in a social sense.
Talk about "shock the world..."
While a great story, that Texas Western team was nearly undefeated, ranked #1 at one point, and should have been a shock to only the outwardly racist southeastern part of the US (we liked our racism much more covert in the rest of the country). A social statement for sure, but mostly because of who they beat (uber-racist Adolph Rupp), and certainly not a Cinderella.
Butler qualifies as a big time Cinderella, though I think I'd take NC State as the reigning all-timer. Certainly VCU would have been more of a story, but the statement Butler is making this year (and last) is that the BCS conferences get too many bids. There's good basketball everywhere and teams are making legitimate noise for more attention (VCU and George Mason also helped this cause).
And let's not forget Butler is doing this after losing a lottery pick and two key seniors, with no super frosh to fill the void.
My son goes to Cleveland State and we went to the Feb 5th game against Butler. If somebody had bet me after that game that I was watching this year's National Champion play they would've made a LOT of money.
I'm with JT on this one. If Butler wins it all its the all time upset for the ages.
My dad's a Cleveland State alumnus. He's been filling me in on the Cleveland State basketball saga. CSU did pretty well in the tournament in the mid-90s, I think, but they've regressed a bit since then. Apparently CSU was a high NIT seed this year but lost, at home, in the second round.
Butler was in the national title game last year. They are one shot away from going for back-to-back national championships. The Cinderella treatment is a one time thing. Like Gonzaga and others before them, Butler is now just another good team that happens to play in a smaller conference.
I can't say I agree. How many people thought that Butler would make it far this year especially losing their best player to the draft? You didn't hear anything about them all season. If they continue to find some success in the tournament then you will see them become Gonzaga but after only two years? I think Cinderella still fits pretty well.
They would have won the Championship, probably winning every game by 20...
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<br>Then they all would have gone pro.
I don't get your point that Reggie Williams and David Wingate are "talent you won't find on present-day college rosters." Career 8-12 ppg scorers in the NBA don't exist on college rosters? I'd agree with the Drexler/Olajuwon/Ewing argument.