OT-ish: G5 Realignment
Looks like the AAC is taking tv markets over strongest athletics. Taking applications from UTSA, UAB, Rice, Charlotte, FAU, and…North Texas. Leaving: WKU (my hometown team), Marshal(?!), MTSU (some recent down years), and La Tech. As well as liberty and James Madison.
I don’t know that for group of 5 you want markets over sos, thoughts?
October 18th, 2021 at 8:27 PM ^
It's actually a better fit for the AAC after they swung and missed on those Mountain West Teams.
October 18th, 2021 at 8:34 PM ^
You always want markets. Success can be fleeting and at the g5 level it’s also mostly meaningless
October 18th, 2021 at 8:34 PM ^
Markets if the rest of your league is going to pull the markets up.
You also need markets because you lost some of your bigger markets.
Last, they're playing the long game that one of the "markets" blows up like UCF did.
If Charlotte or North Texas have a "dominant" stretch, they're going to be the new UCF and Cincinnati. Won't happen in the short-term, but those schools have the potential to be something relatively major.
October 18th, 2021 at 8:35 PM ^
UTSA football having its best week ever.
- Sitting at 7-0 for the first time.
- Ranked in the AP poll for the first time.
- Upgrading conferences to the AAC.
So happy to see them succeed.
October 18th, 2021 at 8:53 PM ^
If WKU could play defense…this team would be special. Pushed Army and Indiana to the brink, kept it “respectable” against MSU and an interception away from upsetting UTSA.
October 19th, 2021 at 1:50 AM ^
If my grandma had a beard she’d be my grandpa.
October 19th, 2021 at 4:11 AM ^
Not necessarily true, my Memaw has a beard and she’s still a women.
October 19th, 2021 at 10:34 AM ^
You got that slightly wrong. The original saying emanating from Yiddish is: "If my bubbe had beitzim she'd be my zaide."
if my grandma had balls she'd be my grandpa.
October 18th, 2021 at 9:14 PM ^
The AAC is already in Dallas so I’d say North Texas probably is out.
UTSA, Charlotte, UAB, and FAU are my picks. Rice just doesn’t care enough about football.
October 19th, 2021 at 1:27 AM ^
I think they’re betting SMU leaves soon
October 18th, 2021 at 9:23 PM ^
They are going to expand their way into irrelevance.
October 18th, 2021 at 9:31 PM ^
Should go after Coastal Carolina
October 18th, 2021 at 9:44 PM ^
I like how people think an AAC record should give people access to the playoffs when that conference is looking to resemble a mix of the pre-realignment CUSA and Sun Belt.
October 18th, 2021 at 9:58 PM ^
Hmmmmm. A lot to digest here. I always like talking about "conference realignment."
I'm not big on this idea of chasing after markets. That's what C-USA did, focusing on markets vs. program strength, while the Sun Belt generally did the opposite. And now the Sun Belt has become the better conference of the two.
Yes, UCF, Cincinnati and Houston were successes for the AAC, teams in markets. But looking more closely at them, they did have some unique circumstances:
- Orlando was an underserved market (only 1 pro-sports team), there was an opportunity there. I think that's a reason they've succeeded whereas USF in Tampa languishes.
- Houston is absolutely huge. Top 5 MSA in America. Chasing markets means more when it's a market THIS big.
- Cincinnati benefitted from being the clear #2 University in a big state with a lot of talent. As discussed here before, the city of Cincinnati has a bit of an anti-OSU tilt, which helps the Bearcats.
Looking more specifically at the 6 schools the AAC is supposedly targeting:
- FAU --- I mean, they're more popular in the Miami/FLL market than FIU. But that's it! Seriously, they rank about 10th in the market.
- Charlotte --- They'll forever rank behind the NC ACC 4, Clemson, and the 2 pro sports teams. Tough for them to break through.
- North Texas --- Huge market and technically in the Metroplex but Denton is closer to the Oklahoma border than Downtown Dallas. This isn't like Houston where the campus is actually in Houston.
- Rice --- SMU, Tulane and Tulsa will like this add, it's a peer school. Navy likes it too because it further increases Texas exposure. But Rice does have an athletic cap, they're simply never going to really have high resonance in Houston as a whole.
- UAB --- 3rd place in the state but it's a football-crazy state and I do think this is a good add. New stadium. A bit under-rated as an academic school: they won't be in the AAU any time soon but their medical school and medical research will be looked on favorably by other AAC Presidents. In the long-run, they actually benefitted from Tuscaloosa trying to torpedo the program back in 2014.
- UTSA --- Definitely a good add.
I guess if it was me, I'd add UAB and UTSA --- then add Rice too if it would keep a number of the other AAC schools happy. I'm not high at all on the other 3.
October 18th, 2021 at 10:07 PM ^
Man, I’d like to see the AAC bring in all the 2nd tier Texas teams (UTSA, UTEP, Texas State, Rice, UNT) and really lock up the state while making for lots of fun rivalry games. This won’t happen, but it would be cool
October 18th, 2021 at 10:04 PM ^
Why doesn’t the MW and the AAC merge?
October 18th, 2021 at 10:06 PM ^
Utah State and South Florida (not to speak of Hawaii and East Carolina!) probably shouldn't be in the same conference.
October 19th, 2021 at 10:49 AM ^
Hey, West Virginia's in the Big 12, so why not?
October 18th, 2021 at 10:11 PM ^
Just thought about basketball too. Wichita State can't really be happy with these proposed adds.
October 19th, 2021 at 8:39 AM ^
Memphis is sitting here thinking, "Hey, I thought we left Conference USA ten years ago!"
October 19th, 2021 at 7:42 AM ^
Not sure why they didn't go to 12 rather than 14. Even with the large markets added, there's a cost to diluting the potential for existing rivalries.
I don't see all three of the MAC/Conference USA/Sun Belt surviving, though the MAC seems quite stable with more of a long-term connection between the schools.
Though what we haven't seen is a long-term reckoning over the COVID situation and other changes in the academic world (a huge drop, nationally, in total student numbers over the last decade or so). Will schools start dropping varsity sports at some point soon? There are some schools, like Akron, that are in very serious financial trouble. They dropped three sports, fired about 100 professors and another 100 full-time staffers last year.
Akron studied this issue with an eye toward dropping football, and their conclusion was that it couldn't be considered based on the costs of leaving the conference (MAC schools must field a football team, by rule).
This is interesting reading: https://www.uakron.edu/president/docs/athletics-review-working-group-recommendations.pdf
It shows how athletics are funded in the MAC. When you see how this all works, the bigger picture comes into better focus.
October 19th, 2021 at 8:19 AM ^
Curious that they wouldn't have pursued Old Dominion. They're in a Top 40 market (1.8 million people) and in an area that has no professional teams (one of the most populated areas in the country without one) and have no FBS schools to compete with. The football program is still relatively new and the men's and women's basketball programs have at times been quite successful.
October 19th, 2021 at 1:58 PM ^
That's a huge stretch insinuating that the residents of Hampton Roads / Tidewater area care about Old Dominion. I've never lived there but have spent a lot of time in and around the area , I could be wrong but I don't think too many people view Old Dominion as the team of 'southern Virginia'.
Plus that area is full of military transplants and it's one of the most spread out 'metro' areas in the country.
October 19th, 2021 at 6:12 PM ^
I've lived here for 12 years and there's a decent following. Yes it's a transient area because of the military but all 2 million residents aren't from other areas. Old Dominion consistently sells out games and they've recently had to expand the (small) stadium due to demand.
October 19th, 2021 at 8:28 AM ^
As well as liberty and James Madison.
James Madison is an FCS program and I don't recall hearing that they would be moving up to FBS. That would pretty much exclude their inclusion. As for Liberty, despite their success on the field, I don't think any conference invites will be forthcoming for the foreseeable future.
October 19th, 2021 at 10:41 AM ^
JMU is in the middle of nowhere. It's a beautiful nowhere, but there are no major TV markets within two hours. It doesn't seem to fit the model the AAC is going for.
October 19th, 2021 at 11:04 AM ^
I was just trying to figure out if I missed JMU moving up. I guess I'm not crazy
I guess I don't get why Liberty is so anathema to the other smaller leagues in the south and southeast. Like I get why nationally they aren't popular, but I don't see why a bible belt conference wouldn't invite them
October 19th, 2021 at 11:57 AM ^
You'll have to ask those bible belt conferences why none of them extended an invite to Liberty several years ago when they announced their plan to move up to FBS.
October 19th, 2021 at 12:13 PM ^
True about James Madison. They are a strong program though, I didn’t think Georgia State would have much success and they’ve held their own. Liberty…I haven’t looked to see what the hang up is other than Hugh Freeze, I just know they came in swinging last year and haven’t looked bad.
Since the perceived lack of sos is what holds most g5 schools back in the rankings I, personally, would grab the strongest athletic programs. It appears the AAC is trying to change the g5 perception by becoming more visible.
October 19th, 2021 at 12:43 PM ^
Liberty's on-field results are indeed strong. I think the reason(s) for them continuing to be independent have more to do with issues off the field (i.e. the perception of the university).
October 19th, 2021 at 8:28 PM ^
Because they are a religious school? Are they that much different from BYU, Notre Dame, etc?
October 19th, 2021 at 1:50 PM ^
Not much to add except that I had a buddy that went to Marshall and have been to two games their. Really great time in Huntington. They feel like a MAC school.
October 19th, 2021 at 8:29 PM ^
Hell, I thought they were a MAC school. For real.
October 20th, 2021 at 10:37 PM ^
Same here. I had to look it up just to confirm they never were in the MAC. Found out their last coach was Doc Holiday. It’s too late for the whole movie, so now I’m off to watch YouTube to watch Val Kilmer killing it in Tombstone.