OT: FIFA censoring in-game replays
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/world-cup/story/_/id/5335440/ce/us/fifa-ce…
The gist of it is, they're saying they shouldn't have shown the replay of Tevez's offside-by-a-mile goal. It's pretty much telling the fans "we're right even if we're wrong" and I think in general it also shows a lack of wanting to fix refereeing errors. So they turn to a 1984-esque way of doing things and just choose to not show what just happened to fans. Sure, the ones on the right side of the field will know what happened, but the ones on the other side won't have a clue. Less rebellion happens before the game is over...
Thoughts?
If this happened in a different sport I would be upset. But if the result is less violence from the fans then I am all for it.
out of sight, out of mind mentality is pathetic and a cop out... fifa thinks that they have such a perfect product in soccer that they feel they don't have to fix the smallest of issues... every major sport in the world has replay now or some sort of computer system that helps out the officals with calls (ie: tennis)... why fifa thinks they are above everyone else is beyond me...
On the surface, it appears that this is some sort of conspiracy. However, I think you overlooking the very realistic possibility that FIFA has made this change in a response to potential violence.
There is no doubt in my mind that the referees are getting death threats as a result of horrendously blown calls, and in some parts of the word these threats are not to be taken lightly.
Those who watched the 1994 World Cup certainly remember this.
If this is the driving force (eliminating violence based on bad calls), wouldn't the more appropriate decision be to allow instant replay? Since, you know, they could then get the calls right instead of masking the fact that they blew it.
Do you work for FIFA because I can't see anyone other than a fifa rep using that irrational line of thinking. No offense to you but that is just common sense IMHE.
Adding replay to fix FIFA will be a long drawn out process and not something that gets fixed during the World Cup. Simply removing replays from the stadium to avoid fan violence is not irrational, it's common sense. They fixed the problem before it happened, and that is smart.
Imagine if you had a country with less than admirable fans like Mexico get screwed, they play the replay, and then all hell breaks loose. Then everyone would be on FIFA for being dumb enough to incite the riot by showing the replay in the first place. This is the quick, easy fix to avoid those problems.
There are places in the world where they have had to install chain link fencing around the field and in the seating areas to keep fans separated and away from the players. Yes, some soccer fans do get that crazy in other places in the world.
my point is they aren't fixing the problem with the game, they are addressing a problem with the fans. The problem with the game will continue, it is just some people won't get to know about it until they see the replays on TV.
This does address fan violence, which is a good thing. However, replay would fix both, which is better.
But as I said, replay won't be suddenly added in the middle of the World Cup, so that isn't going to happen. The next best option to avoid the violence is to just get rid of the in-stadium replays altogether. If they want to address official replays later, that's an entirely different matter to be dealt with.
but I have heard many people on this thread referring to the violence in soccer being the driving force behind this decision (which echoes what fifa has said). My question is where is all this violence people keep talking about? I haven't seen any evidence of it at this WC. It is a serious question.....have I missed something?
No, as far as I know there hasn't been any issue. But fan violence in soccer is far from a new concept, and FIFA is just fixing the problem before they have one. Neglecting to do so could be far more costly later.
This is why I think there is an alterior motive at play. As you said, violence is hardly a new concept in soccer. In fact it was probably at its peak more than a decade ago and fifa did nothing at the time.
Fast forward to today and you have fans behaving themselves much better and a WC where there have been no violent attacks of any sort. However, you have had dozens of absolutely horrible calls, many of which have impacted results.
Now Fifa comes out and says they are going to stop showing instant replays in the games at the stadiums, to curb the violence that has not even been an issue.
To me this is fifa trying to get the public off their back about the replay issue by throwing them a bone. All the while hoping that the noise about replay will not resurface once the WC is over nad the majority of the views stop caring about soccer for 4 more years.
Maybe it is just me, but I think if fifa really cared about violence they would have done this over 30 years ago when fan violence was at its peak. Also, the violence has rarely been about a call and more often is simply about rowdy drunk fans letting off steam. Whether they won or lost many soccer fans used to riot during and after games.
A brutal combination of incompetence, arrogance, and corruption.
you won't get an arguement from me on that.
Wel, yes, but they have previously stated that they don't want to consider changing. The argument is that they should change in the future, but they don't want to.
Do you work for FIFA because I can't see anyone other than a fifa rep using that irrational line of thinking. No offense to you but that is just common sense IMHE.
You state that I lack common sense and am irrational but you sugar coat it with "no offense?" Are you offending me or aren't you? Have some fucking stones.
As far as your response goes, instant replay doesn't exist in soccer right now. I'll compare a soccer ref's blown offsides call to disallow a goal in the World Cup to Jim Joyce's blown call at first base for the last out in Gallaraga's perfect game. In both situations, the need for instant replay in the respective sport is apparent but in neither sport will it be added over night. Also, in both situations, there were/are threats of violence due to the call and how it affected the outcome of the game. Unfortunately, in soccer, violence is at a whole different level.
If you want to argue about what FIFA could and should do for future World Cup events, have at it. If you want to discuss the absurdity of the level of violence in soccer, be my guest. But don't question my intelligence for simply pointing out a potential different line of reasoning to FIFAs decision.
So the NHL does a lot of things wrong, but I think that this is one area they get things right.
Remember a few years ago the bush-league screening that some player was doing to a goalie in the playoffs? NHL made sure it was banned before the next game.
I know other sports move slowly (often too slowly) but hopefully these issues get fixed in the offseason
Because soccer is very low-scoring, replay should have been instituted a long time ago, as a blown call on a scoring play has the greatest likelihood to impact the result of a game (or standings) of any major team sport. Meanwhile, FIFA officials are making colossal mistakes during the most heavily watched sporting event in the world and they are spending their time reprimanding stadium officials for showing a screw-up on replay in the stadium instead of simply making the obvious remedy to the actual problem.
Also, with regard to the violence issue (which is another discussion in its entirety, but could be resolved by playing the cup in countries where a) the host country's fans can be relied upon to refrain from violence and b) the security services used by the host country can be relied upon to be effective), it seems that the best way to curb violence is to review calls and show them to the crowd so that the calls are corrected and the fans can see that the ultimate decision is correct. Instead, FIFA has chosen to allow controversy to reign, which carries a higher risk of violence from the crowd, albeit not as high a risk as there would be if the crowd was immediately made aware of how badly an official screwed up with no remedy in place to correct a call.
because I meant no offense. If I wanted to insult you I would have done so plainly which I didn't. Now you have clearly taken offense so I apologize for that.
I think everyone agrees that this isn't something that would or even should happen overnight, but what FIFA did is give the public some BS to try and get them through this WC. Violence in soccer has been going on for decades and FIFA has never cared about it before and it is probably less rampant now that it has been for 10 years or more.
I think what FIFA is doing is hoping this will satisfy the viewing public for the remainder of the WC. I believe that they think everyone will forget about all the blown calls of this WC once it is over and they can go back to ignoring the problem for another 4 years, at which time the problem will present itself again on the global stage.
Violence has not been a problem at this WC (at least not that I have seen) so why are they addressing this? IMHE this is all about the referees blowing call after call and very little to do with violence.
Finally....have some fucking stones? What are we in elementary school here?
Finally....have some fucking stones? What are we in elementary school here?
Junior high is perhaps a better comparison.
The violence stems from a sense of injustice done. It looks like a conspiracy to the fans on the short end of the call.
If it is felt that justice is done, in an impartial technical way (video review, goal line sensor) then there will not be violence.
I'm not sure how this would prevent off-field violence. Escobar wasn't killed in the stadium - he was killed a few days later, back home in Colombia. The only thing this does is prevent people at the game from seeing a replay of a bad call. FIFA is powerless to stop people from viewing replays on TV or the internet.
Somewhat, but its not like they're trying to cencor the replaying of the actual event to everyone, pretending like it didn't happen. They are trying to eliminate replay from interferring with the live event, whether that be through players not arguing on the field between plays and slowing the game, or fans not going crazy and getting someone killed. I really don't have a problem with it. When they start telling ESPN that they can't show replays for the broadcast or anything like that, that is when a line is crossed in my opinion.
Soccer will never be a major sport in this country. The officiating is moving progressively downward toward boxing type quality. The major sports expect more from officiating in the way of reforming how the game is called. FIFA seems to offer nothing to improve how the game is called.
Basketball.
The FIFA refs are freaking gods compared to the morons in the NBA. They should use replays though. They were available 0.25 secs after the goal and using it would have added far less time than running over to the sidelines and talking to the side judge.
In basketball, teams score often enough that a few bad calls are less likely to impact the game. A single blown call in soccer, however, has the potential to drastically alter the result of the game, group standings and tiebreakers, and, in the case of a wrongly-applied card, the ability of a player to participate in future games.
See above as exhibit 1. There is nothing that pisses Americans off more than (1) obvious non-transparency, (2) blatant disregard for injustice. Thank you FIFA, I now don't have to worry about soccer for another 4 years.
Look at the NBA for instance. Since Wade's FT shooting exhibition in the finals a couple years ago, the NBA ratings have tanked (obviously LA-BOS finals helps bring the numbers up, but in general ratings are down). As a general rule, I think American viewers dislike sports where the refs greatly influence the outcome. Americans like freewill and control. The reffing in this WC has definitely inhibited this.
FIFA spokesman Nicolas Maingot said Monday that replaying the incident was "a clear mistake."
The mistake here is obviously replaying the incident, rather than making the right call on a scoring play in a very low scoring sport...
FIFA does not tolerate idiocy nor incompetence. Rather, they demand both.
There was also an obvious goal in the England Germany game that was not allowed which could very likely have changed the outcome of that game. No replay is a joke, especially when the playing field is as big as a soccer pitch with 1 referee.
And FIFA defenders say that the game shouldn't be slowed down to replay controversial plays, all the while blokes are rolling around on the ground during the middle of the game as if they have been shot- and they game can be stopped as they practice their thespian skills.
There are actually four referees that can make the call. (The sideline judge at half field was just given authority this year)
but many tiimes refs won't take the time to get their input.
Ok, people need to read the article.
They are saying they shouldn't have shown the replay in the stadium. This is the same thing the NCAA does. It's a crowd control issue. They are in no way defending the incorrect decision by the AR.
but I'm more upset that this is their first response to the bad calls, instead of 'We will investigate ways to correct this in the future'. From the standpoint of preventing violence in the stadium, this is a good move that I agree with. However, as a first response to what happened, it sends the message that FIFA doesn't think their current system is broken, which it clearly is. Until FIFA accepts that their system isn't perfect and can be improved, nothing will happen. I just hope it doesn't take a controversial goal in the finals to make them see the light.
That's agreeable.
A general rule of officiating organizations is to publicly back the officials in judgement calls. But these officials will face disciplinary action. Also, I don't think it's reasonable to expect FIFA to come out and announce replay will be instituted (in the future) in the middle of the World Cup. They shouldn't make any rash decision, not matter how logical it may seem to be.
Wait until the tournament is over. Evaluate. Then try to figure out what to do.
My problem isn't that they won't change it mid-tournament. I agree that would be a terrible move. However, I do think that they should voice their opinion on considering it for the future. Instead, they say "nope, it's perfect as it is and we are not changing it". It's not so much the action as it is the way they are dealing with it.
I feel like soccer purists are like baseball purists on steroids. I personally would call myself a baseball purist, and the HR replay even bothers me. Adding replay for out/safe calls would really drive me batty. I imagine soccer purists have the same feeling, and the idea of adding replay to the "beautiful game" would destroy some of the essence of it in their eyes.
Why do you oppose reviewing homeruns? Or out/safe calls? It seems to me that when you have a system that makes it more likely that the only people who impact the result of a game are the players (and managers, coaches, fans, etc.), then that system is superior, so long as it doesn't cause excessive delays to the game (and in baseball, that's difficult to do, considering that the games take 3 hours anyway).
Oh I get that it seems like a backwards way of thinking, and I certainly don't try and push the views on others and make them agree, because that's a lost cause. I suppose just being someone who grew up being fed baseball and played from tee ball to college year round, I'm just entirely accustom to the game the way it is. The idea of taking the human element out of the game where bang-bang plays have to go to a review system to move on seems strange. To me at least, all those calls even out in the long run, and the best team will win regardless (which is where most will disagree and the problem circles back). I really don't have a good way of explaining it, it's just a change to something I treasure, and that's uncomfortable.
With that said, GET OFF MY DAMN LAWN YOU KIDS!
Exactly. Have any of you been to an MLB game before? You never see replays of controversial calls right after they happen. They never allow fans to react and explode like that, and FIFA is getting rid of the replays to avoid violence and fans erupting in anger. They can still see the replay later and be pissed about it, just like in baseball.
Everyone who's making this about FIFA being non-transparent is totally missing the point. That is still true, but that is not what removing immediate replays from the stadium is about.
Makes me think of the 2009 Notre Dame game, for which the in-stadium scoreboard repla operator deserved credit for catching Micheal Floyd's left foot grazing a couple of blades of white field turf, ledading to the overturning of a TD.
Maybe our point is that they should just review goals, rather than censor replays so that the crowd doesn't know whether or not the call was made correctly.
Also, is this a new rule by the NCAA, because we put up replays of controversial plays all the time last year and weren't reprimanded, if I remember correctly.
happen if the game isn't even officiated right. From everything i have read they are bascially telling everyone to suck it.
because they are afraid of a riot. I have been at plenty of sporting events where the replay shows the original call was wrong but I dont run on the field and attack the ref.
You've never watched a soccer game in a third world country
I hope I never do
Part of the reason FIFA is claiming they won't implement instant replay in the World Cup is because they won't be able to implement it in all qualifying matches. Once they make it available in the World Cup, fans will expect it for all matches and I guess that's not feasible. At least according to FIFA officials. I think that's completely ridiculous, but that's one of the arguments FIFA is making...
Hockey figured out this would be a good idea... one person, each net, looking only for goals before color photos.
Why can't FIFA?
Pic is actually from an M game... no idea which one
I think one of the European leagues tried this last year. I think there was still a blown call or two and FIFA decided it wasn't worth the trouble. Or something like that, at least.
Can any actual soccer fans confirm/deny?