Edwin Jackson just threw a no-hitter against the Rays. Congrats to him.
Stateline for Jackson: 8 walks, 6 strikeouts, 1 hit batter, 149 pitches thrown.
wow. hated to see him go, glad to see him pitch a good one.
That's good for him I liked him in Detroit.....the only question is whether or not his arm is going to fall off...150 pitches holy shit.
Pitch counts have always baffled me. Pitchers pitch once every 5 days, I can't follow the logic of having a limit. My brain is not as sharp after working 10 hours as it is after 2, yet my employer is not telling me to go home after 2 hours. I know the stats guys are going to throw numbers out there to counter my beliefs, but i still hate hearing about this magical number. Good for Edwin and bad for the Rays to be hit less again. I am not saying one pitcher should play per game, but until they either are fatigued or lose their stuff. Anytime Verlander goes over 100 pitches a big deal is made and looks like he has been just fine (knock on wood)
Some guys have proven they can handle the load and a guy who has been around as long as Jackson might be able to also. I think a lot of it depends on how many innings it takes you to throw said pitches. The more times you're throwing 100+ in 5 or 6 innings, the more likely you are to put real wear and tear on your arm and increase the likelihood of injury.
You just need to keep it within reason, and it depends a lot on the pitcher. A pitcher like Verlander or CC Sabbathia, who are tall, strong pitchers with clean mechanics can go 120 every so often and not be damaged by it. Someone like a Lincecum or Scherzer who are maybe a little smaller or have a more violent delivery, or even less developed arms like Porcello or Kershaw, shouldn't be putting that much strain on so early. There's also the matter of high stress situations, pitch types, theres a lot of factors that foul it up and make it incredibly inexact.
That being said, 150 pitches is stupid. I know he had a no hitter, but keeping someone in for 150 pitches is something that Dusty Baker would do.
Clean mechanics can keep you healthy regardless of how big you are. Lincecum has almost flawless mechanics (small timing flaw late in his delivery) and has had a relatively high workload the last couple seasons.
Lincecum has clean mechanics, just a strange delivery. It's mainly his size that worries people. It's the sole reason he went 10th in the draft, he had absolutely sick numbers coming out of college, 125.1 IP, 1.94 ERA, and 199 K's.
I read an article by one of the espn.com writers where he asked MLB GM's which young pitcher they would most like to build around, and Lincecum was tied for 9th, despite being the most accomplished pitcher out of all those eligible. There are GM's who still don't trust his size and mechanics, and his fastballs dropping velocity isn't doing anything to convince them they are wrong.
Here's the link for anyone interested. It's fairly interested for those interested in the future of young pitching. It was written before Strasburg was called up, which is why he doesn't show up.
8 walks. I wonder what the record is for baserunners in a no-hitter?
Do you guys remember that guy who pitched a no hitter and lost? Turns out, they changed the definition of a no hitter and stripped him of that too! Damn, sucks to be that guy.
i think he was the last to pitch a no hitter and lose. but faye vincent decided to arbitrarily decide that you need to go 9 innings. he also took away a few rain shortened no hitters. to me, a complete game no hitter is a no hitter. period. it's an official game.
Not by one pitcher though, but the Angels lost a no hitter in interleague play 2 or 3 years ago. They pinch hit for Jered Weaver in like the 7th inning because they were down 1-0, and didn't allow a hit after he left.
11 hour long tennis match and a near 150 pitch no-hitter. What a crazy week.
When AJ Burnett threw his for the Marlins, I think he walked 9, and I think there's been no-no's where 10 or more have been walked.
Wasn't that Dontrelle? I think you got the wrong ex-Marlin
Edit: Nope, looks like I got the wrong ex-Marlin. It was Burnett
Steve Barber- Baltimore Orioles-1967
Jim Maloney- Cincinnati Reds-1965
Both pitchers walked ten runners each.
ESPN put up a graphic that shows the most pitches thrown for a no hitter. Jackson's was the highest, followed by Randy Johnson at 138.
Man, no-hitters are so common place these days, hell, even a perfect game isn't a once in a decade occurence anymore. Wake me up when we get a perfect game with 27 strikeouts.
It''s awesome that he threw a no-hitter... but I think it's even more impressive that he allowed a baserunner per inning and still came away with a shutout.
Also with how many perfect game/no-hitter's this year how many no-no's and/or perfect games does Stephen Strasburg throw in his career? Without steroids or greenies in the game I feel like barring injury Strasburg could rack up one a year... lol.
149 pitches wow!
That's most pitches I've heard of anyone throwing in my lifetime...(18+ years)
Condensed version is Austin Wood, former Texas reliever and current Tiger's minor leaguer, came into a 2-2 game in the NCAA baseball regional, a day after pitching 2 innings in relief the previous day. He then proceeded to pitch 12.1 innings of no hit baseball, and finished with a line of 13 IP, 2 H, 0 R, 14 K's, and 4 BB. He threw 169 pitches! Just a sick performance, although it might have taken its toll on his arm, as he was on the DL last I saw.
Sort of a strange note, he actually relieved Chance Ruffin in that game, who went on to become the Tiger's second round pick this year. Tiger's love them some Longhorns, which is a pretty good place to get talent from. Now if they can somehow find a way to get Junjmann...
175 was the most thrown by a college pitcher this year if you include the estimated list. I saw a 168 that was verified. Matt Igel threw 153 against Michigan this year in game 2 of their weekend series. By my count, there were at least 20 games with more pitches in Division 1 of the NCAA this year.
Which makes me think again, why do some of these kids even bother going?
If I was a big time high school prospect, and I went anywhere in top ten rounds, I'd be gone. Some of these kids are turning down multi-million dollar signing bonuses, just to get a better deal in 2 years. Screw that, I'll take a million, put 100,000 locked away in some account to pay for college should I flame out, and not risk some college coach killing my arm with a 160 pitch game.
Generally, you want to keep the pitch counts low on the younger guys, and keep an eye on the innings totals of those under age 23. There are mounds of statistical evidence showing a direct correlation between high innings totals under age 23 and arm injuries. That's why the Tigers kept Porcello's IP down last year, and should do so again this year.
Same thing with guys coming out of college. You want a case in point? Kenny Baugh. The Tigers drafted him out of Rice in 2001, and that same summer he pitched his way to AA-Erie, not even 2 months after he was drafted. Shortly after that they discovered that after they drafted him, the jackass that manages Rice's baseball team made him throw 171 pitches in a College World Series game. I'll give you one good guess who showed up the following spring with a dead arm.
Nate Cornejo had the same issue, although with different circumstances. The idiots that ran the Tiger organization saw that he put together a 16-3 minor league record AT AGE 21, also in 2001. They brought him to the majors that season, and he went 4-4 in Detroit. Sure, he won 20 games between the minors and majors, but at a steep cost. He threw 159 IP in the minors that year, and another 42 in Detroit for a total of 201. The year before? 168 at age 20, and 174 at age 19. Guess what happened to his arm?
Keep the innings and pitch counts down on the kids, or you can sit there and sew their arms back together. Your choice. And at the cost of these arms nowadays, I know which one I would choose.
Lincecum also began his career at a later age. At 22 he was drafted, and he threw 31 innings, plus whatever he threw in college. I'll throw out a wild guess of 100-110 innings in college, so he was at 130-140 that year. At 23 he threw a combined 177 innings between the minors and majors. Borderline for that age group, but not excessive.
I would contend that his inning totals were not excessive at a younger age. For some reason 23 seems to be the magic age. I'm not a doctor, so please don't ask me to explain it.
Bob Gibson didn't top 200 IP until age 25. Same with Nolan Ryan and Jack Morris. Whitey Ford did it at 24, and Steve Carlton hit 200 IP in a season at age 23. Sandy Koufax? Age 25. (Thanks, Baseball Reference :D)
Basically, the safest thing major league franchises can do is to keep the innings down (and, theoretically, the pitch counts as well) at young ages, especially under age 23.
As a Rays fan who lives in the Tampa Bay area, I can say that Jackson has broken our hearts on numerous occasions. The only thing that was different tonight was that he was wearing the opponents' uniform.
When he pitched here, he would routinely follow a great outing with a putrid one. When all is said and done, he is a .500 pitcher that teases fans with his "potential" but never fulfills it for more than a few outings at a time. I am happy to see him get a no-hitter, even against my home team, but I still think both the Tigers and Rays were correct to not keep him around.
I would guess that batters just aren't hitting as well, what with the steroids crackdown.