OT: ACC Rejects Cal & Stanford, ND pushed for them
The ACC voted against adding Cal and Stanford. However, 11 in fact voted in favor of adding them led by Notre Dame who somehow gets an ACC vote. 12 schools are needed and they can revote needing to flip only 1.
This had fueled speculation that the 4 schools who voted against it want the ACC blown up to land somewhere else. However, it could be as simple as not wanting the long travel distances for nonrevenue sports.
The 4 schools that voted against it are Clemson, Florida State, North Carolina, and North Carolina State.
I feel bad for the Pac4, but they are unlikely to add more than they take from a major conference.
P.S. how truly independent is Notre Dame if they get a vote and need the ACC scheduling to fill out their schedule with decent teams midyear?
August 14th, 2023 at 8:19 AM ^
To Hell with Notre Dame.
August 14th, 2023 at 8:41 AM ^
ND wants the ability to control their schedule… and, with these opponents slated to play ND this season - Tennessee State, Central Michigan, NC State, Duke, Navy, Louisville, and Wake Forest - I understand why they cherish their “independence”.
My hope is - the three more visible games - Buckeyes, USC, and Clemson - result in a perfect 0-3 record for those contests.
August 15th, 2023 at 9:22 AM ^
I'm ok with a scenario where ND beats OSU.
August 14th, 2023 at 8:23 AM ^
If my understanding is correct, I’m surprised by Clemson and FSU - since, I thought adding teams to the conference would void the current media agreement - and associated GoR, which is the real issue.
That North Carolina voted against is interesting - and, with the potential addition of Stanford and Cal - would push the Tar Heels a bit down the list of strongest academic institutions in the conference. My view is - Duke is the strongest academically - as Vandy is in the SEC, and Stanford is in the PAC.
Regarding ND - nothing surprises me, period. I think ND should be considered for the ACC CCG - and require ND to potentially play in it - as all other P5 teams who belong to a conference must do.
So, I guess - the ACC is really 15 teams - that’s a nice even number.
P.S. - I hope the Chips start their season 3-0 this year.
August 14th, 2023 at 8:39 AM ^
I believe the GoR is legally distinct from the media deal, and in any case, I don’t believe adding members voids either. The same way adding UW/UO doesn’t void the Big Ten’s GoR or media deal — it just triggered the clause requiring Fox to good-faith renegotiate to reflect the new added value.
August 14th, 2023 at 8:42 AM ^
Thanks.. I appreciate the clarification you shared.
August 14th, 2023 at 9:50 AM ^
15: the evenest odd number. Or the oddest even number.
August 14th, 2023 at 11:26 AM ^
If my understanding is correct, I’m surprised by Clemson and FSU - since, I thought adding teams to the conference would void the current media agreement - and associated GoR
My guess is that their lawyers don't see a way that it would void the current deal -- but perhaps further, the more teams the ACC adds, the harder it is to gather up the majority of schools to break the grant of rights early
August 14th, 2023 at 8:23 AM ^
If I were in charge of an ACC school I'd be pissed at ND for 2 reasons.
1) They get a full member vote even though they don't play football and the vote in question is in relation primarily due to football.
2) That ND is pushing for Stanford and Cal to be included when they themselves won't join. If ND cared about preserving the ACC they would join and bring in Stanford and Cal as the condition of joining. That would in effect at least save the ACC in the short term, although FSU at the very least would still want to bail. The money just isn't there and the conference is falling further and further behind every year.
August 14th, 2023 at 8:27 AM ^
It does seem the ACC is moving in a direction also known as.. the Death Spiral.
August 14th, 2023 at 8:44 AM ^
Is ND really saying.. “Hey ACC.. grow the conference - and maintain your media agreement for $25M / year. We’ll settle for an independent media agreement with NBC that will give us twice (or more) than the teams in the conference.”
Oh, don’t forget - we (ND) are looking at a new apparel agreement too.
August 14th, 2023 at 9:09 AM ^
Just another bad deal the ACC leaders made. First one being their TV deal with ESPN.
August 14th, 2023 at 9:49 AM ^
The fact that the ACC ever allowed that half-in/half-out deal with Notre Dame that was entirely favorable to Notre Dame, was arguably the start of the ACC death spiral. The conference gave away more than it had to, and advantaged an individual school, which started giving the OTHER individual schools ideas that they can't forget easily.
August 14th, 2023 at 8:48 AM ^
Am I being too cynical or will ND stay "independent" as long as it's dependent on the $$$ of NBC (or equivalent)?
August 14th, 2023 at 8:54 AM ^
Vet, you’re not being too cynical. And, remember - ND is only independent in football - they’re in the ACC for most other sports.
August 14th, 2023 at 9:32 AM ^
Kinda, my understanding is the NBC deal won't ever pay as much as the B1G or SEC media rights deals. But it does pay enough to allow them to be independent for now.
August 14th, 2023 at 9:43 AM ^
MEZ - agreed - the ND agreement with NBC will not pay as much as the B1G or SEC. However, that agreement is ONLY for football. I'm pretty sure ND has an agreement with the ACC for media rights that cover other sports - including basketball. So, I'd guess that ND gets "something else" from ESPN as part of the agreement for "other sports" where they are an ACC conference member.
I'd also assume - with the ND donor base - raising capital for improvements won't be a significant issue in the future - as it's been in the past.
P.S. If you've visited South Bend - the cost of living is a bit lower than it is in other B1G cities. So, the dollars will go further.
August 14th, 2023 at 11:20 AM ^
Notre Dame gets $17 million a year to be a partial ACC member, which includes a minimum of 5 ACC vs Notre Dame football games.
August 14th, 2023 at 9:48 AM ^
I *think* this is right. They may get a good deal next time that contract is up. They won't get 90-100 M like the B10/SEC will toward the end of this contract, but they will get more than 50M, which is more than another other conference.
I know many think it's inevitable that ND joins the B10 at some point, but (depending on the next NBC contract), if they don't see a red flag with the B10/SEC contracts coming AFTER they lost their HC to LSU for $$$$ reasons, I don't think anything will ever bring them into a conference.
Purple face should have been the canary in the coal mine for ND athletics. He went to LSU for several million more than what ND wanted to pay a pretty successful coach. And that was BEFORE the SEC contract w/ ESPN that will balloon from 50-55M/school now to 100-110M in 7 years. You can coach in South Bend for relative peanuts or the B10/SEC for 15-25M/yr for a HC, 5M/y for Coords and 1M/yr for all assnts.
August 14th, 2023 at 9:57 AM ^
Agreed - though, there were several reasons beyond salary for Kelly seeking to leave South Bend. One aspect was the admission standards - which, though ND lowered - they didn't lower far enough (in Kelly's opinion) to get the level of talent he felt was needed to compete for a national championship.
There were also some "off the field" issues with players in the past that didn't sit well with the "powers that be".
I'm not a fan of Brian Kelly's - but, he knows how to coach.
The one thing about Kelly's tenure that definitely "irks" many ND alumni / fans is - he surpassed Knute Rockne as the all time winningest coach (in number of total wins) for the Irish.
August 14th, 2023 at 9:00 AM ^
1. All this realignment sucks.
2. If, by some miracle, realignment ended up with Notre Dame left out in the cold and no one willing to play them - then revise 1 to : realignment has been great!!!
August 14th, 2023 at 9:07 AM ^
Interesting how the schools who voted against are the ones who have been rumored to be looking into other conferences.
August 14th, 2023 at 9:31 AM ^
It's also that FSU, Clemson, and UNC have been angling for an uneven distribution of revenue already and adding 2 schools would further divide what is a pretty small pie in terms of overall league TV money. I am sure they want to jump to the SEC or Big 10 but assuming that grant-of-rights keeps them around a bit I get not wanting to cut a check to Stanford and Cal to not bring in any eyeballs.
August 14th, 2023 at 9:29 AM ^
Notre Dame getting to have their cake and eat it to with being "independent" and not having to deal with a conference grind while still having a say in league affairs has always been strange but also not all that surprising. Yes ND is in the ACC for everything other than football but this was always a football decision and the ACC holding out hope that ND would ever come to them if they needed to join a conference is almost quaint in its naivete.
I feel bad for the Pac-4 schools left behind, particularly WSU and OSU. Cal and Stanford have the resources to gave a bigger shit about revenue sports and, save for the Harbaugh-to-Shaw eras at the Cardinal, never seemed to dedicate enough to make them worthwhile. Yes the NoCal market is a bit overrated when it comes to sports but if Stanford and Cal were bigger-time programs a league would love to have two A+ academic institutions that have access to a top-10 media market and oodles of money and companies willing to invest in them.
August 14th, 2023 at 10:08 AM ^
I feel bad for Cal, but I don't feel bad for Stanford.
August 14th, 2023 at 10:24 AM ^
so the 4 teams voting against them are clearly the ones hoping to get scooped into the SEC after the ACC implodes?. .
August 14th, 2023 at 10:39 AM ^
Let's take a quick look at those four teams...
1. Clemson - SEC - no other real conference target, already play an SEC school annually - South Carolina.
2. FSU - SEC - geographic alignment - and, they already play an SEC school annually - Florida.
3. NC State - would seem to be a potential target for ... the Big 12? As the Big 12 tries to enter the eastern part of the US.
4. North Carolina - this one confuses me. I have no idea what the Tar Heels expect - a B1G offer to join - along with Virginia? It doesn't seem like the SEC has any interest in them.
August 14th, 2023 at 11:01 AM ^
You're purely looking at Clemson and Florida State through a Football reputation lense. If you really look more deeply, then you'll see that they both make more sense to the BIG than the SEC.
-Clemson is ranked #77 in the college rankings (higher that several other Big 10 schools). Clemson brings in a new TV market (the Carolinas) and a lot of views (because Clemson is popular). Clemson is also a very solid athletic institution, and would add to the overall perception of the conference it is in. Why wouldn't the BIG be interested? The SEC only makes sense based on athletics. The BIG makes sense in every way.
-Florida State is ranked even higher in college rankings (#55), so they fit in very nicely with the BIG. Florida State brings in even more views and "fans" than even Clemson does. Florida State also brings in the state of Florida (which the SEC already has). Florida State has a very successful athletic program as well. The university of Florida DOES NOT WANT them in the SEC, and adding FSU really brings minimum value to the SEC. However, they bring in tons of value to the BIG. Why wouldn't the BIG be interested?
The two North Carolina schools would bring value as well, but they both would QUICKLY be scooped up by the BIG 12.
August 14th, 2023 at 11:41 AM ^
Why wouldn't the BIG be interested?
Neither of them are AAU members yet. There is a report that this is no longer a requirement, though.
August 14th, 2023 at 10:50 AM ^
Oh the hell with it! The B1G is at what? 18 teams now? Let's take all 4 of the remaining PAC12 teams. Then, we can divide the league into Big 10 and Pac 12 divisions, and have the Conference Championship Game in Pasadena on January 1st.
More seriously, Muffet McGraw (Retired ND women's basketball coach) had the best take on this. CFB should simply separate from the NCAA and have their own Conference/Playoff structure. Let all the other sports stay in the NCAA and go back to regionally based conferences with less demanding travel requirements.
August 14th, 2023 at 11:10 AM ^
This is where the B1G messed up in their Tv contract with Fox/NBC/CBS
Should of put something in their saying once we sign with you, you cannot sign ND unless they become part of the B1G than we can rengotiate the B1G contract.
They did everything except not allowing NBC to sign NBC which would of forced ND to ESPN/ABC and only them. ABC / ESPN could of lowballed them.
Get Arizona State Hockey to B1G and kick ND out also !
Bad move by the B1G not putting the screws on ND
August 15th, 2023 at 9:08 AM ^
Notre Dame getting a vote for football related matters. LMAO