The origin of MSU's Renaissance pipeline.
http://spartannation.com/Hondo%27s_House/flash/COACHWATTS062109.html
Pretty fascinating to watch. The end is especially humorous when the guy goes off the deep end with the lies. Almost sounds like a remix of Teddy Ginn BSing about it being Lloyd Carr's fault that the UM/Glenville relationship ended.
tons of politics in high school football. This coach is just pissed that RR and his staff probably won't play the dirty politics and kiss his ass like Dumbtonio has. And the fact this guy seems to think CArson Butler had NO ROLE WHAT SO EVER in screwing up his own career just goes to show you that this coach is smoking some pretty potent crack.
"dirty politics"? Hilarious.
I'm sure the Cass Tech pipeline to UM is just as "dirty". I don't think DickRod can take the moral high ground over Dumbtonio on this one.
Ah, I always love when one of our special friends from the RCMB stumbles over here and squawks.
I'm sure you're right about the Cass Tech pipeline. I'd expand on that point further, but I'm off to watch some video of former Cass Tech and University of Michigan standout Vernon Gholston. But good luck to MSU this upcoming season. I bet MSU's pass rush will have trouble in the UM game, what with former Cass Tech standout Joseph Barksdale anchoring one of Michigan's tackle spots.
....Oh, wait.............
EDIT: I shouldn't chastise petty Spartan fans for browsing the site; at least Brian makes $0.003 for each of his page views.
Dumbtonio?
What did actually happen between Glenville and UM?
Nobody's quite sure. Some say Ginn believes that Carr unjustly put Pierre Woods in the doghouse in his senior year. Some say it was because Ginn Jr. had a bad day at UM's camp and wasn't offered a scholarship as a DB and left in tears. Me? I tend to believe it's all a bunch of BS and daddy Ginn was just looking for an excuse to steer his top kids to his favorite school - OSU.
the ginn jr. factor
UM didn't offer Ginn Jr.? Either you're right, or Michigan's staff was criminally stupid.
They did, but not right away at camp. He took an official visit to Michigan eventually, but the ship had basically sailed at that point.
just trying to stand up for his players, even if hes wrong about it. Plus hes talking to a MSU reporter so you can expect the conversation to be slanted in their favor.
You are my favorite poster.
hopefully your a hott chick with lemonade and daisy duke denims?
I didn't hit "REPLY", so that was intended for the OP.
or whatever. whatever. ya know? whatever.
"Renaissance" is coincidentally an interesting word to use associated with MSU recruiting.
MSU lands a quantity of three 4-star recruits for 2009 (Norman, Baker, Caper) (for the first time probably since Darryl Rodgers was HC) and everyone in East Lansing is high-fiving and backslapping each other as if the world is being finally put to rights.
If only it were so simple.
It takes years to see the fruits (or rotted roots) of any coach's recruiting labors.
Just ask Rich Rodriguez what remained of Lloyd Carr's 2005 No. 2 ranked recruiting class and how much it helped him in 2008-2009.
One class does not a Big Ten champion make.
H.S. coaches certainly do have a measure of influence over recruits. MSU's football program is better. No question. However, I'm not yet sold on the idea that MSU is kicking Michigan's teeth in seven ways to Sunday on the recruiting trail.
I do think MSU will field one of it's finest teams in the Big Ten this fall (with new QBs an all). But in terms of knocking out Michigan, I firmly believe - and the evidence more than suggests- that Dantonio and Co. have all of there work still ahead of them to convince.
That was a well thought out, intelligent, and coherent post. The only thing is that with the additions of Gholston and Hicks, the 2010 recruiting class looks to be pretty good too, which adds some measure of consistency. But other than that oversight, I totally agree with everything you say. And no one is saying MSU's recruiting is, as you say, "kicking Michigan's teeth". We're just glad someone has given us something to hope for. We've been devoid of that for too long.
However, I disagree with what you say about the MSU team this fall. I believe our defense will improve slightly, but our offense will take another step back. I'm predicting 8-4 because our schedule is so easy.
Perhaps you don't say anything like that, but there are plenty who post on various boards who are more than happy to proclaim that MSU now owns the state and is the dominant team. After one win and a decent recruiting class still rated lower than what Michigan brought in. Those are the folks we make fun of, because those delusional fools deserve it. MSU will likely have a similar or better record that Michigan this year, and after this season I'd expect Michigan to move back on top with 9+ win seasons again. If Rod puts up a 6 win season in year 3, Ann Arbor Torch & Pitchfork will be in for a record sales year.
I don't think we'll be seeing any more 4-win JohnEl-esque seasons out of MSU though so long as Dantonio can consistently bring in classes in the mid 30s to mid 10s as he's doing.
Point taken, but why care what rando people on MSU message boards say?
duh, it's all Rodriguez fault that Butler punched that Notre Dame player.
Rodriguez totally should have teleported from Morgantown when he was the WVU coach to stop the St Patrick's Day Nerd Massacre!
yeah that too. if anyone was "done wrong" it was the nerd that Butler beat the shit out of.
the nerds! won't anyone think of the nerds?
Speaking of the St. Patrick Day Carson Butler Rampage, I saw Carson and another football player yelling and banging doors as they walked through West Quad at 3:30 or 4 AM that morning (don't quote me on the time, it was well passed 12 AM though). I opened my door to see what was going on and saw 2 huge football players clearly drunk and decided it would be a wise decision to go back inside my room and continue the beer pong game I was playing. Just after I shut my door I heard a guy from the basement floor yell "Shut the fuck up, we're trying to sleep here assholes". Butler was right in front of my room at that time (floor 1) and he ran as fast as he could downstairs to find the guy that yelled that. Well, he did find him because that guy had his chain lock on his door and was making his point clear that he was sleeping. The angry sleeper guy somehow got the door shut with his roommate before Butler kicked, and slammed, and donkey kicked, and punched the kids door in for more than 30 minutes. It was like someone was using loud bass for their music very early in the morning.
So, this is about the time I realized Carson Butler was a psycho.
I have other stories about Butler being a complete dumbass (i.e. him vs Crable fight in which Crable destroyed him), but I will leave that for a rainy day.
In conclusion, Butler = psycho, Butler = wild animal, Butler = uncontrollable.
Not, RR's fault.
Crable vs. Butler?
I would've loved to have seen that.
Ya, I guess it was pretty intense. I heard this story through a good source, but what basically happened (I'll keep a short story shorter) was Carson was drunk and disorderly at a party and started to cuss out and disrespect Crables girlfriend. Crable did not take kindly to this and the fisticuffs began.
I wasn't there, but wish I would have been because that is a heavy weight title fight.
There are funnel schools everywhere. Glenville loves OSU, Cass Tech favors UM, Renaissance is becoming a MSU staple. That happens. What I will say, and this has been said before, is that until MSU starts recruiting nationally (and not just MI and OH), they are going to have a hard time becoming a consistent national presence. That's why I find the coach's quote about Dantonio wanting to lock down Michigan for MSU. Unless you reside in a football hotbed AND you can lock up the top talent consistently, I think MSU will field consistent 2nd-tier Big Ten teams like Iowa, Illinois, Wisconsin, and Purdue - usually decent, occassionally great, but usually traveling to central Florida or San Antonio for a bowl game.
As for this particular clip - what do you expect? Guy obviously likes MSU, MSU has made an effort, etc. But kids go where they want to go, and they usually want to play for winners. If UM turns it around this year and is at least at the level of MSU, I suspect at least some of his kids will ignore his overtures for MSU and go to UM if the offer is made. As for his views on Carson Butler - the guy obviously knows Butler and likes him, so of course he is going to overlook the mountain of evidence against Butler and blame it on RR. What people forget, of course, is that there were a number of kids who bitched and left MSU when Dantonio took over, but because the program was so bad at the time it did not receive much press.
EDIT: Final note - tried reading some articles on spartannation.com, and was shocked just how bereft of detail many of them were. When discussing certain players, there is a lot of "he plays with fire" and "he'll be as good as Laurenitis" without any, you know, information or facts to back that up.
Spartan Nation is run by one lunatic fan who's constantly derided on the RCMB. He used to be the sports anchor at the WLAJ, the poorly-run and low-rated ABC affiliate in Lansing. He was recently fired (I'm told by a friend who works there) because he was donating money to the MSU athletic department, which makes him a booster, which means he should not have been getting media credentials for games and such.
Rediscovered this thread while back-researching the Renaissance thing and was surprised to find us talking about Hondo Carpenter, who's the Sparty who donated the pics for last year's HTTV. Yeah he's an MSU homer, just like we're Michigan homers--now he's a blogger because blog readers expect you to be a homer. It isn't any more weird that he gets credentialed than that Ace does.
He's also a guy who's nice to Michigan fans, and that's why he gets derided on RCMB so much. Brian was too rough on Hondo on the front page at this time. I figure he didn't know the specifics of Criswell and Butler. The coach, Watts, turned out to be a really bad dude.
So, he says that not only Butler, but another kid whose name I didn't get, who is a grad assistant, were "done wrong."
How does giving a kid a GA position constitute "doing him wrong?"
I hope RR figures out a way to do some damage control. You can't have a vocal, fairly successful PSL coach bad-mouthing your program.
is trying te generate a lot of static. We know:
1. If Carson Butler was a responsible young man and player he would still be in Ann Arbor.
2. We know Butler will not be with the Green Bay Packers long.
3. I wonder what Andre Criswell has to say about his former HS coach's views on him being done wrong.
4. Since perception is reality, especially in the PSL, RR should take note of what Dantonio is doing there and offer services about and beyond what Sparty is doing.
5. John L. Smith is still trying to locate Detroit on his Rand & McNally road atlas
about Butler not being with the Packers for long. He is one hell of an athlete. Packers have Finley and Lee and if Butler can get his personal stuff straightened out and they coach him on how to block, he has the talent to take that 3rd tight end spot. Besides, how much trouble can you get into in Green fucking Bay, Wisconsin. Is he gonna go out into the woods and punch a mountain goat?
No mountain goats in Green Bay, yo.
But are there nerds?
Carson Butler is a good athlete. He is also lazy when it comes to blocking (it's not that he doesn't know how) and has a bad attitude. There are a lot of good TE's that come out every year. I don't think he'll be there long.
take a dump in someone's laundry basket.
From experience... many, many hot blonde hair,blue-eyed Dutch descendant single (and married for that matter) woman in the area just desperate for some guy that does not work in a paper mill !!!
Football players are preferred....
Didn't Lloyd Carr also have trouble with Carson Butler? He was a very immature kid.
Carr booted him off the team in the spring of 2007, only to reinstate him that fall.
The grad assistant from Renaissance High School was my 9th Grade locker partner Andre Criswell. I went to that high school and went to U-M along with about 50 of my graduating classmates. As far as I'm concerned there is no recruiting pipeline from Renaissance to MSU, I knew Carson in high school, he was a dumbass who kept getting into trouble, so did his twin sister. I wasn't surprised when he left because he's not a team player.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgTAdxAorUg
I'm not sure if I'd call it a pipeline yet, but if MSU can lock down Lawrence Thomas in 2011 the moniker might be appropriate. There is a definite, STRONG, anti-UM and anti-RichRod slant coming out of the program. Ishmael Thomas is one we might have a shot with if we offer.
I too would like to see Rich do some damage control with these kids, but only because I went to Renaissance and can't stand to see this happening.
BTW, Carson left the team for personal reasons, not because RichRod ran him off.
The truth is, Watts is a mediocre coach who takes top-flight talent and turns in lackluster seasons year in and year out. It still bothers me to hear him say that he's hopeful LT will go to State, because it signals to me that this kid is not only hearing anti-UM stuff from his teammates, but also directly from a coach I'm sure he respects greatly.
From speaking to a couple coaches who have played against teams like Southeastern, Renaissance and even Cass Tech over the past few years, I think "mediocre coaching that turns in lackluster seasons with top-flight talent year in and year out" is a common occurrence in the PSL.
This is definitely true. Cass Tech had tons of talent last season and couldn't even win the PSL. Renaissance had Norman, Dixon, Hicks, and a lot of MAC-level talent, and underachieved tremendously.
Charles, is that you in those videos? If it is...uhhhh...did you really attend a PSL school?
looking in, I would have to agree with this. These schools are turning out division one athletes each year, and shuld be winning state championships with them. Now, I am an outsider, as ohio high school football is what i am familiar with, but if you've got two or three kids like this every year, you should be winning your fair share of games.
Be it coaching, facilities or whatever, the PSL teams never do well in the playoffs. I believe only one Detroit team has won a Division I/Class AA state title.
Anyone else find it funny that this anti-Ann Arbor tripe starts off with an ad proclaiming Cottage Inn the best pizza in East Lansing?
Sounds like a "what have you done for me lately" kinda coach.