Opposing Defense Philosophy vs Michigan?

Submitted by WalterWhite_88 on November 16th, 2022 at 6:32 PM

Given Michigan's incredible game and seemingly weak passing game, I'm wondering why opposing defenses don't just stack the box against them to try to stop the run and leave the cornerbacks in man-to-man defense (w/ 1 safety for additional help) to at least make Michigan prove that they can do damage with their passing game? I mean, with the way Michigan continues to pave teams, why not try to go all out to stop the run and see if it works? Is it just arrogance/cockiness on the part of opposing DC's who think they can stop Mich's running game with a 6 man box? Or are they really worried about Mich's passing game for some reason? 

I know I'm oversimplifying things and it's more complicated than that, but I'm just curious what others smarter than me think about the best way for an opposing team to defend us. 

MaizeNBlueTexan

November 16th, 2022 at 6:40 PM ^

Sorry, I don’t have any answers. 

This has puzzled me as well. Why not sell out to stop the run and just live with the consequences?

My only guess is a blown assignment on a pass is a TD. Blown assignment’s on a run play still has to get pass the LBs, any dbs in the area, and the safety?

 

MGoOhNo

November 16th, 2022 at 8:00 PM ^

See, e.g., Indiana who tried this and made it work, for exactly one half. After which, it failed to work.

But, similar to UM offense, at this time in the year, your team is mostly what it is. Most coaches aren’t trying to switch offensive or defensive philosophy and scheme away from what they feel most comfortable with…

stephenrjking

November 16th, 2022 at 6:40 PM ^

Not a bad question, honestly. Though I'm told Nebraska played a lot of single high (we'll know more when the offense UFR posts tomorrow) and Michigan wasn't going to open the bag of tricks against them.

A large number of teams have banked on Michigan grinding down in the red zone and played softer defenses to avoid giving up big plays that can easily go for TDs with Michigan's speedy athletes. That, of course, is just fine with Michigan.

The question ultimately comes down to what Ohio State does. I haven't seen enough of them to be able to observe their defensive strengths, so I'll wait until Alex writes them up next week. They can play soft and bank on Michigan failing in the red zone. Or they can try to crowd the LOS and try to force Michigan to pass (which still doesn't always work) but expose themselves to bigger play options.

Michigan has access to a number of good man-beater concepts that they simply haven't bothered to use lately. Think mesh with Schoonmaker or Bell crossing over the middle, or even pretty simple slant stuff that creates lots of space. Michigan is *really happy* to get man coverage and send three guys deep and attack a good matchup underneath. They don't even need to strike deep downfield to exploit that kind of thing.

Also, if you cheat in to the box too much, Michigan will attack you laterally. Bubble screens with fast receivers and lots of space on one play, three TEs on another. Michigan has the diversity to do this... and keep in mind that Michigan has shown a good ability to do this already. 

And if there are formations that give receivers better releases and better downfield options in the tank, that's when we'll see them. 

It's an interesting chess match. Michigan keeping within striking distance into the third quarter will be absolutely crucial. It's what the macro-philosophically similar 2018 team could not do. It's what 2021 did, and this team has some hope to be able to do. Maybe.

MaizeNBlueTexan

November 16th, 2022 at 7:01 PM ^

+1 Insightful

I almost always agree with your posts and I appreciate you taking the time to write this up.
What you wrote makes sense to me. 
I never played or coached at a high lvl. I did go 12-0 in the 4th grade so if I stuck with it Id CLEARLY be a 1st or 2nd NFL rounder (jokes).

Im more of a reader…so are there any source materials you would recommend for someone that wants to expand their X’s and O’s knowledge?

I love this site, so saying “pay more attention to UFRs” is acceptable. Its just hard for me to see what is the “right” call BEFORE a play happens. If someone holds my hand and explains it, it almost always clicks.

 

Twitch

November 17th, 2022 at 7:25 AM ^

SpaceCoyote has a blog called Breakdown Sports.  Chris Brown has a few books.  Cody Alexander has some great books about defense.  There is a ton of books out there.  Just go to Amazon and look up those two authors and branch out with their "customers also bought" suggestions.  I, myself, have about a whole book shelf full of them.  But for me, Twitter follows have been the most helpful because it's always accompanied by video.

XM - Mt 1822

November 16th, 2022 at 7:31 PM ^

to add a tiny bit to this, you are going to also want to send backers on a regular basis and maybe even try cover-zero since michigan has good, but not phenomenal receiving corps.  set your edge hard, maybe even switch back and forth on scrape-exchanges just to keep it less predictable, and try and plug what you can between the tackles. 

outsidethebox

November 16th, 2022 at 9:28 PM ^

I saw Nebraska walk both safeties up several times...there were nine in the box and the corners were in pretty strong press coverage-Michigan did not care...ran it for 7 yards anyway. And this is how Corum and Edwards take it to the house from 60 yards. Corum jukes the first guy then breaks a tackle and he is off to the races. Both Corum and Stokes were very close to doing this against NE. 

I think Jim likes the odds of the Michigan running attack versus the OSU passing attack-believes Michigan can score on a higher percentage of drives than OSU can. We will see.

 

 

1VaBlue1

November 16th, 2022 at 8:59 PM ^

The only problem I have with this answer is that we haven't seen any bubble screens or WR flairs since the first couple of games.  Same thing happened last year - we never saw them after the first couple of games.  It's like the OC(s) forget about them.  I love them in the context you bring up here, I just hope they're still a thing.

Otherwise, yeah, no arguments with anything.  Defenses need to bring 8 into the box just to slow down Michigan's run game.  It's been proven on many occasions that 7 isn't enough.  If OSU, or Illinois for that matter, want to try stopping Ronnie Bell, Roman Wilson, and Luke Schoonmaker man up all game, well, okay...

I'll take JJ's wonky pass game all day long if those guys only want three peeps defending it...

Midukman

November 17th, 2022 at 6:55 AM ^

Excellent analysis! Yes we aren’t great going deep but we attack in so many other ways. Pre snap motion is so easy to overlook but we do it so well that it opens up anything we wanna do. Not to mention our blocking schemes are exactly what you’ll see any given Sunday. If JJ could just connect on 1/3 of his deep shots moving forward it changes our identity into a CFP team in a flash. 

Casanova

November 16th, 2022 at 6:54 PM ^

TBh, I am worried about OSU switching to a bear front like Virginia Tech did to urban meyers run-oriented offense in 2014. 

I think we need to see solid situation passing in this Illinois game.

 

turtleboy

November 16th, 2022 at 7:05 PM ^

With the number of gaps Michians run offense creates, combined with our TE threat, and JJs legs, its a lot safer for inexperienced college defenses to sit back and play reactive in the backfield than to expose themselves by committing and then getting busted. Edwards has found recent success in his run game by waiting for defenders to commit before cutting or picking his gap, than to simply burst through the line like he did earlier in the season. 

The Homie J

November 16th, 2022 at 9:01 PM ^

The sheer number of weird and ever shifting gaps you have to cover on defense against this offense really makes this offense as dangerous as a high flying passing offense.  I'm seeing a lot of the college football world fret about our lack of passing because I don't think they realize how badly this run game can outmatch you in a instant.

If you fling everybody at the line of scrimmage, you better hope that Harbaugh didn't see that coming, doesn't have an answer on the spot (like say, an OL that can detect your blitz and redirect in a flash), and can't make you wrong even if you were right.

Harbaugh has finely tuned this year's run game to the point where a defense can do everything right, and Blake Corum still ends up 4-5 yards from where he started.  If he does that every play, you lose, simple as that.  The second you cheat up, you're gambling like Penn State that you covered every gap correctly (something most defenses will screw up), that your guys didn't get blown off the ball anyway, and that JJ McCarthy didn't see this happen, and throw it over your head or run past you as you tackled Corum.

Midukman

November 17th, 2022 at 7:00 AM ^

Unfortunately for Nebraska, it was varsity going against the freshman in the trenches. They did a good job of neutralizing the big sprint to the end zone but we’re getting bulldozed for 5ypc. They could have had an extra 2 defenders and probably fared the same. Olu is our KW3 this year. 

Needs

November 16th, 2022 at 7:30 PM ^

I think we're likely to see what happens if teams do this on Saturday, because this is exactly how Illinois has played all year. Man to man across the board with a single safety playing very deep. 

bighouseinmate

November 16th, 2022 at 7:32 PM ^

I would tell you to rewatch the Indiana game. Obviously the level of competition caveat applies, but routes were open constantly and JJ was hitting the receivers regularly for big chunks. The lone interception was partly a bad decision and partly bad luck but the passing game was working well that day. Why? Because Indiana was stacking the box and running run blitzes the whole game. 

GRRBlue

November 16th, 2022 at 7:39 PM ^

Did some UM guy do Heather Dinich wrong?  Every week she negs UM.  She’s chatting up IL pass and run defense.  Someone out there ‘fess up. 
 

M-Dog

November 17th, 2022 at 6:31 PM ^

ALWAYS with her.  It's uncanny to the point where I had to look up her bio. 

She went to Indiana Univ, went to high school in PA, covered Penn State football as a journalist, and covered Maryland basketball as a journalist.

That's enough adjacent contact with Michigan that she probably just does not like Michigan.  

It shows.

CMHCFB

November 16th, 2022 at 8:21 PM ^

You need to have the athletes to do it. You can win a conference title being one dimensional, but it won’t win a national title.  Starting in Columbus, UM is going to need an answer through the air. 

UMForLife

November 16th, 2022 at 8:22 PM ^

From what I have seen, Michigan is still good at short and intermediate throws. You cheat too much on those with a stacked box, one of those WRs or DE or TE is going to take it to the house. We are too worried about our passing game because of down field throws that didn't click in the last few weeks and issues in RZ. 

Then they go to have a good passing game inside RZ and some great PA. 

I think crowding the LOS will not work against Michigan as they may open up their short, intermediate throws and play action game. Down field throws might still click by OSU game. 

mexwolv

November 16th, 2022 at 8:54 PM ^

Because JJ is a good passer on shorter routes and he is a great runner.  Sure, he hasn't shown the ability to connect on the long rputes but that doesn't mean opposing teams will totally disregard the threat.  That and the fact that Michigan runs using different looks and formations, so it is almost impossible to consistently stop the running game.

Illinois has a decent defense, will have to wait and see what strategy they implement and if they are successful or not with it.

BoxLunches

November 17th, 2022 at 1:31 AM ^

By no means am I a smart guy, but this is my take

Stacking the box to stop the run does help against inside the tackle runs, but it often gets confused with blitzing the QB. It is first about plugging holes. If the SS comes up to add to the numbers as you say, it leaves one-on-one coverage without much help and, with the skill set of Michigan's receivers, outside runs/passes are one missed tackle or one block away from taking it to the house. Michigan receivers can sure deliver that block. And one-on-one with no safety help is almost pitch and catch.

Playing man coverage without safety help is asking for it and a big risk to let the score get away from them quickly, so coaches are just hoping they can guess correctly, keep it close, and hope crazy stuff happens. I don't think it is arrogance, they are just trying to stay in the game.

(I wonder if our receivers blocking so well and often is why I don't see real separation on their routes? Do they like sticking DBs so much that they let 'em hang around so they can pop 'em? :)

canzior

November 17th, 2022 at 10:13 AM ^

I think some teams are stacking the box. And what it looks like is that the run concepts are creating and moving gaps which throws off run fits.  The neck sharpies and Jdue on Twitter both showed how this worked against PSU. An extra TE, and 2 pulling guards can add 3 new gaps that need to be covered and Corum and Edwards are good enough to hit the one that gets missed.

Buffalowing Blue

November 17th, 2022 at 11:39 AM ^

Everybody knows M is going to run a lot. Will osu be able to stop them and get off the field?  We all know JJ has missed several long throws but they havent been interceptions, so thats good.  All we need is for him to connect on 1 or 2 deep shots to change the game and we will forget about all the misses.

I'd love to see stokes get a few carries to see what he can do, and to give corum and edwards a quick break.  Having corum and edwards out there at the same time would keep osu guessing. Start both in the back field and make them guess whos getting the ball. Start them both off in the backfield and shift edwards to the slot and make osu guess if corum is getting it or will it be a pass.  

Just like last years game Harbaugh has many looks he can give them and as long as they execute and get those 15-25 yard big plays and keep osu on their heels Michigan has a great shot getting points on this questionable osu defense.

RustyCleats

November 18th, 2022 at 6:45 AM ^

It's just not a simple as stacking the box and trying to force Michigan into a 3rd and 3 every set of downs. You can do that and a couple of teams have tried, but that gets tiring for their D line and you have seen the results of that all year. The other team collapses into the 3rd quarter and Michigan runs them into the ground. 

However, OSU has a bench and can rotate. I don't know if there would be enough time in the game to wear them all down. It will have to come down to passing.

JJ has had problems with his long-ball touch this season. I'm expecting to see Michigan pound OSU once again and hit the TE with crossing routes. Donovan Edwards can really upset the apple cart and I hope he gets used. Edwards is a superstar in waiting. He can run, pass, catch, and do all with grace and ease.

I expect Michigan to keep the game close to the vest. A knife fight in a phone booth type of game. Out muscle them once again. I expect OSU to pander to the fans and go for the long ball, quick scores, and make use of their receivers. Stroud has proven he's not real good under pressure when he's being chased around. We keep the ball out of Strouds hands and the Michigan team will have a fun bus ride back to Ann Arbor.

Panther72

November 18th, 2022 at 7:13 AM ^

Opposing teams would want to stop us on first down. OSU will do their best to fit gaps and squeeze the edge and put us in 2nd and long. Easier said than done. Many teams have gone zero on us and gave up 6 yards on first. OSU has good Edge players so they will bring pressure fast on any drop back passing. Second and long brings that opportunity.

You’d think backers following the pulling lineman would be easier. But this line seals off gaps so fast with really good technique. I guess it comes from running 13 Duos and as many counters a game. They have gotten really good working together.

Individually OSU has great talent. But how well do they play team defense, keep gap integrity? 

To quote Vance Bedford “Tyson used to say everyone has a plan until they get hit in the mouth.”