Old NY Times Piece on Finding Opponent Film
This may be behind a paywall, so let me quote some of the key points from this 2013 article:
1) "Most conferences have rules that all teams must exchange game film with one another." They may face penalties from the conference if they do not share.
2) "If a team decides not to exchange video, then it falls on the video coordinator to try to get that film in some other way. "They all know we'll find a way to get it, and it just makes the job easier if they cooperate," the US video coordinator (at the time) said."
3) This tape, unlike broadcasts, shows more on the field details from all angles.
4) "Last season (2012), Michigan State accused Ohio State of editing its tapes to exclude some movement before the snap."
The entire article is a really good illustration of video exchanges being standard in the game, as well as gamesmanship for how each coach pressures their video coordinators/analysts to provide information to other teams.
For me, it does open up a couple of things:
1) Maybe Stalions really did think that it was okay what he was doing, allegedly.
2) Conjecture, but plausible: maybe Harbaugh is like every other head coach that was either referenced directly or through the example of their program, and he directed Stalions to make sure he got tape. Doesn't mean he knew how he got it, even then.
3) As a big Harbaugh supporter, I was pretty much thinking that his crossing the line SHOULD be fireable. Now, the more that goes by, the more we learn, the whole scandal seems more blown out of proportion and gamesmanship by OSU's third base coach.
October 24th, 2023 at 3:30 PM ^
It’s 2023. Athletic departments have budgets in the hundred million plus range. Players themselves can now become millionaires while in college. The entire industry is worth billions.
Yet signaling the plays - one of the more important aspects of the game - is left to a GA holding up a posterboard sized photo of Cookie Monster.
Give these guys the helmet communications they have in the NFL, let people film whatever and be done with it. So beyond stupid.
October 24th, 2023 at 3:59 PM ^
Or as, Brock Huard pointed out on the Herd a few days ago, go to a wristband system and the problem is solved (helmet communication is better but requires rule changes that coaches opposed).
October 24th, 2023 at 4:12 PM ^
"Rules changes that the coaches opposed." Lol, this should really be all that needs to be said regarding "sign stealing"...
October 24th, 2023 at 5:50 PM ^
Seems like college coaches like the idea of eliminating the huddle by having everyone get to the line and look for each position group's coach/board for their portion of the play.
This negates the wrist band or helmet comms unless every player gets one.
October 24th, 2023 at 3:34 PM ^
I made a similar comment in the "temperature" thread.
Going back a ways - to the Bo days, and - specifically, prior to the OSU game - managers from the teams (Michigan and OSU) - would meet half way between Ann Arbor and Columbus on Sunday morning prior to The Game - and exchange game film. This provided OSU with Michigan's game film, and vice versa.
October 24th, 2023 at 3:36 PM ^
This is madness. It’s almost like why even do it.
October 24th, 2023 at 3:48 PM ^
I don't know what percentage of college games are broadcasted - and, I would assume it's a pretty high number. That figure may change at the D2 / D3 level - which I understand.
The cost of "video" (digital video image capture) has gone down a great deal since the days of "film" - like Kodak used to make.
I think a simple solution (and realize this "Pandora" may be out of the box) - is to have every college football team set up a camera - with an "All 22" (or similar) view of the field and opposing sideline - for every game. The video that's recorded is stored in a secure NCAA library where it can be downloaded, viewed, analyzed, etc. by those with appropriate access rights / authorization.
October 24th, 2023 at 3:53 PM ^
where it can be downloaded, viewed, analyzed, etc. by those with appropriate access rights / authorization.
/Matt Weiss has entered the chat
October 24th, 2023 at 3:37 PM ^
Let's settle this like men.
- Fire Stallions
- Ask all future UM opponents to change their signals
- Beat everybody ass anyways
- Profit.
October 24th, 2023 at 3:52 PM ^
I know Stallions is gone, and won't be back on the field nor in the stands. That makes me sad. The more I read about him, the more I like him. He just loves our team so much that he "Lennie Smalled" us...
October 24th, 2023 at 3:48 PM ^
Today, Deion Sanders and Matt Rhule both came out and said every coach does what Michigan did in the recent tape sent out by OSU in which Stalions was standing next to Moore and Zinter in last year's The Game. Even though OSU changed their plays before the game, it still didn't matter as Michigan beat them comfortably. The NCAA and the news media are reaching a lot here to find ANYTHING.
October 24th, 2023 at 3:58 PM ^
Really ballsy of Michigan to wait until the second half to start using his info with him standing there the whole time.
October 24th, 2023 at 4:11 PM ^
The video of Stalions on the sideline is video of him doing what he was hired to do. Evidence of Stalions doing his job does not prove that Michigan was cheating in how the collected intel. Stalions very well have gone outside the rules to get the intel, but video of him being an analyst doesn’t prove anything.
I am completely fine with coming to terms that Michigan may have violated some rules, but it is the intentional intellectual dishonesty that is being employed that is killing me.
October 24th, 2023 at 3:49 PM ^
Maybe Stalions really did think that it was okay what he was doing, allegedly.
I think he absolutely believed he found a loophole. And it’s possible he’s right. The sad thing is UM might not back him up on this and will hang him out to dry. If UM really believes it’s cheating then fine. Otherwise I hope they’d argue for him.
The Harbaugh denial is what makes me think UM wants to distance themselves from Stalions.
October 24th, 2023 at 3:53 PM ^
When you're in a role like Stalions, it's understood that you will fall on your sword if anything goes wrong.
I think we can safely say by now that something went wrong.
October 24th, 2023 at 4:49 PM ^
This response would mean UM views it as cheating. And as I said, in that case, Mr. Stalions, meet bus.
October 24th, 2023 at 3:50 PM ^
There's no reason any Michigan fan should care about this. Could the NCAA overreact and vacate some wins? They could, its a dumb organization in it's death throes. But who cares, every program has vacated wins at this point and none of those fanbases correct themselves when they talk about those years.
Short of Harbaugh paying off officials or running a rampant steroid program, I can't really think of anything he could do to break the rules that I would consider a fireable offense.
October 24th, 2023 at 3:54 PM ^
Could the NCAA overreact
That is the reason to care. I agree with you on vacated wins. But they could hit us with anything they want. Yet to see what it will be.
October 24th, 2023 at 7:40 PM ^
They're not going to hit us with the death penalty or ban us from a weak ass bowl game so what can it be?
October 24th, 2023 at 10:19 PM ^
I don’t know.
October 24th, 2023 at 4:00 PM ^
Kansas basketball vacated some wins from 5 years in the past, paid a small fine and even Self survived it. All that after an FBI probe into one of the most blatant, illegal 'pay for play' schemes ever uncovered. Kansas was positively thrilled with that outcome. I don't think any of the schools implicated in that scheme paid any serious price that affected their program long-term.
Basically every single school/program in major collegiate athletics has had significant NCAA infractions. It's part of the game. I remember 15-20 years ago fans would still throw that at each other to score 'points' but nowadays knowing that teams work around NCAA rules is a bit like knowing that pro wrestling storylines are scripted. It's just the grown-up position and nothing to get excited about.
October 24th, 2023 at 4:14 PM ^
I agree this in no way should be a fireable offense for Harbaugh, but I think fans are rightly concerned that this is an unwanted distraction that opens the program up to NCAA sanctions and/ or pushes Harbaugh to the pros.
October 24th, 2023 at 4:01 PM ^
The thing about Stalions is.... they want to run!
October 24th, 2023 at 4:05 PM ^
I think Stallions was trying to justify his existence. I refuse to think Harbaugh had anything to do with this.
He has his best team ever n possibly in school history and he wants the signs off the cupcakes on his schedule....NOWAY.
Harbaugh had no clue what this guy was doing nor did it have any impact on the games. You're better off playing sound defense then guessing what 3 Pokémon cards mean on 3rd and 5.
October 24th, 2023 at 7:42 PM ^
Thank you, he's playing 3 card molly on which play to pick.
October 24th, 2023 at 4:06 PM ^
I miss real film.
When I finally come to power we're banning digital photography and social media entirely. I'm going to make Fotomat great again.
October 24th, 2023 at 4:11 PM ^
Especially the mercury, eh MH?
October 24th, 2023 at 4:28 PM ^
I'll have you know that mercury is completely safe and also delicious.
October 24th, 2023 at 4:10 PM ^
I would characterize Coach Day as "stranded on third base" rather than coaching third base.
October 24th, 2023 at 4:17 PM ^
He's a 44 year old tattletale. Dude has literally cried about three teams "cheating". Meanwhile, the successful program he inherited was built on "pay for play".
His 2019 success stemmed mainly from the NCAA bending its transfer rules to get Justin Fields into Columbus.
The Big Ten literally changed their Covid rules to get Ohio State into the championship game in 2020.
The guy is a silver spoon loser.
October 24th, 2023 at 4:38 PM ^
Blue Horseshoe loves Anacott Steel.
October 24th, 2023 at 5:05 PM ^
I remember Bo shuffling TEs Craig Dunaway and Norm Betts to get the plays in! (That’s dating me)
Technology has changed the game - it’s time to put the radios in QB helmets so we can be done with this nonsense.
Agree that the NCAA slapping Bill Self’s hand along with the hands of bagmen in the SEC, while threatening Michigan with playoff sanctions, is clearly disproportionate and unfair. Also, gotta think execs at FOX and NBC aren’t happy about an undefeated Wolverine team sitting out the postseason.
Applaud coaches like Rhule and Sanders that aren’t taking the bait. Any team that hopes they don’t have to face us is full of cowards.
Especially the guy on third base with beard dye dripping on his pants. He’s the biggest coward of them all…
October 24th, 2023 at 5:21 PM ^
I was just going to say whatever happened to sending the play in with a lineman? Maybe we just got too fancy? I think Chuck Noll used to take in the play from Paul Brown. I thought Bo used linemen too, but I'll defer to your knowledge.
October 24th, 2023 at 6:31 PM ^
As a big Harbaugh supporter, I was pretty much thinking that his crossing the line SHOULD be fireable
WTF? You wanted him fired over this piddling crap?
October 24th, 2023 at 8:36 PM ^
Well if we all wanted to scout OSU like Alex and Brian does already, here is a site with their games
https://nfl-video.com/cfb/big_ten_football/ohio_state_buckeyes_football/40
It's nothing hard to find along with folks uploading games on Youtube. I'm willing to say Stalions took a lot of Youtube videos and deciphered their plays with signals.