Pepto Bismol

February 12th, 2016 at 9:45 AM ^

Allow me to veer off on a tangent.

It drives me crazy when people have a problem with the Journey lyric "Born & raised in south Detroit".  Immediately, they'll exclaim "There is no South Detroit!  You mean Windsor!"

No.  There is definitely a "south Detroit".  If you look at a map, it would be the southern part of Detroit. 

There exists a University of South Florida.  Would you say there is no South Florida?  "You mean the Caribbean Sea!"   No.  I mean south Florida.  The southern part of Florida.  I definitely do not mean whatever is to the south of Florida.

There is an area called South Central Los Angeles.  "You mean Anaheim!"   No.  I don't.  I mean the southern part of central Los Angeles.

Tin Cup had a short follow-through to help him navigate the winds of West Texas.  "West Texas?!  Surely you mean New Mexico!"  No.  I mean the western part of Texas.  Not whatever is to the west of Texas.

How about East Carolina University?  "There is no East Carolina!!!  You mean the Atlantic Ocean University?!"   No.  It's a university located on the eastern side of North Carolina.

And on, and on...

 

South Detroit = the southern part of Detroit.  Not whatever is located to the south of the city of Detroit.  So the next time Journey plays at the Joe, shut up about it.  You sound dumb.

 

(deep breath)

I feel better.  Thanks.

 

Oh.  To stay on topic, Dantonio is a turd...or something.

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ST3

February 12th, 2016 at 10:04 AM ^

people actually think that means Anaheim? They better not let Snoop Dogg hear them say that.

Growing up in East Lansing, I often heard the joke, "I'm going to LA for spring bring, Lansing Area."

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MI Expat NY

February 12th, 2016 at 10:32 AM ^

Au contraire.  The point is that nobody outside of Journey has ever referred to any part of the City of Detroit as "South Detroit."  (I also notice you change the capitalization of "South" to make it seem like Journey was just talking about a geographical term and not a named region or neighborhood).  Thus, when people hear someone mention "South Detroit," as this term referrs to no part of the city of Detroit, it must mean something else.  Thus the joke "you must mean Windsor."

Similarly, the problems with South Florida and East Carolina aren't necessarily that regions couldn't be described with those terms.  The problem with USF is that it really isn't located in South Florida as any residents of the state would recognize the term.  Similarly, ECU, with the context that the states of North Carolina and South Carolina exist, the joke is that ECU is pretending to be from a third Carolina state.  Obviously it is named as such because "East North Carolina University" sounds even more silly.

I'm not sure what you're talking about with South Central, but as that has been a recognized part of LA for a long time, I'm not sure it fits with your South Detroit argument.  I admit to being ignorant of the West Texas statement.  

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LSAClassOf2000

February 12th, 2016 at 10:52 AM ^

I am one of the SE Michigan natives that is slightly irritated by the "south Detroit" thing, although only when people try to pass it off as a neighborhood or area designation and not a random geographic designation. Journey was going for a line (about someone who is a bit rough around the edges and streetwise), which is fine, but it seems to create some confusion nowadays as to what we call what in this area, if you will. 

In reality, unless you are going to draw a line referencing, say, Ford Road (which is the "zero line" for Wayne County's east-west survey roads anyway) or another east-west street and say that everything south of that line is "south Detroit", then it doesn't really exist. Southwest Detroit, on the other hand, is a well-defined, well-understood designation encompassing several platted neighborhoods.

Of course, there are the Downriver communities, which aren't Detroit but are south of it certainly, at least as the Detroit River flows. For those unfamiliar with the region, I guess I can see it. If you live here, saying "south Detroit" doesn't mean anything to anyone, that's all. 

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Pepto Bismol

February 12th, 2016 at 12:10 PM ^

...Poppycock.

 

I understand your point, but just because it is not a universally used, specifically drawn, easily identifiable region does not mean that it doesn't exist.

If we're having a conversation, or if I'm writing a song, and I say that I hail(!) from the 4th Quadrant of Michigan, are you going to tell me that it doesn't exist?  You can't be from the 4th Quadrant because NOBODY calls it the fourth quadrant.  You must be referring to mathematics.

It DOES make me a weirdo.  It DOES make me sound like an outsider to the locals who have never heard it referred to that.  But it does NOT mean I'm from Canada.

 

I am from the very area you speak - luxurious Downriver.  I am well aware that "south Detroit" is rarely used, if ever.  But it does not mean that a "south" part of Detroit does not exist.  And it certainly doesn't mean "Canada".

Perhaps the version of Steve Perry singing that song spent but a few early formative years in the city, and looking back at his home town on a map identifies his old neighborhood in the area of "south Detroit". 

It's his song.  It's his weird terminology.  Sounds like he grew up around Fort & Shaefer. 

Not Windsor.

 

 

Regardless.  I'm glad we're finally getting to the bottom of this.  :-)

 

 

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MI Expat NY

February 12th, 2016 at 1:12 PM ^

I think you're failing to note the difference between "south Detroit" and "South Detroit."  The former uses a geographical modifier in conjunction with the city of Detroit.  The latter is a proper name indicating that, if it exfisted, others would recognize what is being named.  I agree that one could pull out a map and say, "see this part here, this is the southern part of Detroit and is what someone saying south Detroit could mean."  However, South Detroit, as a proper name, has no meaning to anyone and thus does not exist.  

Journey was clearly referencing South Detroit, which people jokingly call Windsor or whatever.  Nobody disputes that you can't make up some definition if you wanted to do so.  Rather, they're saying that no such place with the proper name South Detroit exists.  They are correct. 

There are lots of places where all cardinal directions aren't or can't really used to describe portions of a region.  The writers of the song just happened to pick out one such location for the song.

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Mich OC

February 12th, 2016 at 1:25 PM ^

Why are you so sure it is "South Detroit" and not "south Detroit"?  Were there officially released lyrics?  Can you hear the capitalization when you listen?  

According to Wikipedia

"The song includes a reference to Detroit, Michigan which has a long and rich musical heritage. The lyric "Born and raised in south Detroit" has been misconstrued by some as being a reference to a non-existent city named "South Detroit" as well as areas that lie south of Detroit."

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Pepto Bismol

February 12th, 2016 at 2:07 PM ^

You've posted this twice now.

You say "Journey was clearly referencing South Detroit".  I don't have the official Journey lyrics in front of me.  If this is available to you, please share.

If not, then you're assuming, same as I am. 

 

Meanwhile, you state, "There are lots of places where all cardinal directions aren't or can't really used to describe portions of a region. The writers of the song just happned to pick out one such location for the song."

Humor me and head over to Google Images and search for "Map of Detroit".

You're trying to tell me that you are NOT able to identify the southern part of the city? 

 

 

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FauxMo

February 12th, 2016 at 3:45 PM ^

"Just a city boy, born and raised SOUTH OF DETROIT" would have worked just as well rhythmically, been factually correct, not referred to a place that doesn't exist, etc. You and Steve Perry are both wrong...

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FauxMo

February 12th, 2016 at 1:01 PM ^

"Perhaps the version of Steve Perry singing that song spent but a few early formative years in the city, and looking back at his home town on a map identifies his old neighborhood in the area of "south Detroit"." But Perry has admitted in an interview he knew nothing about the area, and just happened to be there on a tour stop as he was writing the song. He used "south Detroit" because it sounded the best lyrically, the most "authentic," nothing more. Now, I know songs are like poetry and poets are given some license. But we are not talking about randomly mixing up words in an interesting new way. He is referencing what seems to be a real place someone was "born and raised." A place that, on any map I know of, CANNOT BE FOUND! Think of it this way: Someone could visit Detroit for the first time, rent a car at the airport, type "South Detroit" into the GPS, get sent into Southwest Detroit (i.e. Mexican Village, a real, quite dangerous place), and DIE! LIVES ARE AT STAKE HERE!!!

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Pepto Bismol

February 12th, 2016 at 1:55 PM ^

First, I know the history of the lyric. That has no bearing. 

Just because he is referencing a place to be born and raised doesn't mean he is referring to a proper city.  He could have said South Ann Arbor, or South Lansing or South Kalamazoo.  And if he did, I would have assumed the southern side of any of those cities.  And I CAN find that area on any map of Michigan. 

In fact, it's MORE descriptive to give a more specific direction within city limits than to give just the city as a whole.  ESPECIALLY if the city as a whole does not even exist.  "south Detroit" is much more specific than the fictional "South Detroit".  If I try to reach "south Detroit", I will at least end up along Fort St. somewhere.  If I try to reach "South Detroit", I will never even begin traveling since my destination is fictional.

 

So did Steve Perry mean "the south side of Detroit", or did he mean a fictional city on par with Never Never Land?  I assume the former.

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CalifExile

February 12th, 2016 at 11:22 AM ^

For some reason you remind me of this:

In a 2009 interview, The Plain Dealer music critic John Soeder asked Don Henley if he regretted writing the lines "So I called up the captain / 'Please bring me my wine' / He said, 'We haven't had that spirit here since 1969'" because wine is fermented while spirits are distilled. Henley responded:

Thanks for the tutorial and, no, you're not the first to bring this to my attention — and you're not the first to completely misinterpret the lyric and miss the metaphor. Believe me, I've consumed enough alcoholic beverages in my time to know how they are made and what the proper nomenclature is. But that line in the song has little or nothing to do with alcoholic beverages. It's a sociopolitical statement. My only regret would be having to explain it in detail to you, which would defeat the purpose of using literary devices in songwriting and lower the discussion to some silly and irrelevant argument about chemical processes.

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Primo

February 11th, 2016 at 9:39 PM ^

I read his comments as actually trying to flag the practice and potentially get it outlawed. I mean, if he was excited about pursuing it, why would he couch it as "well I guess it's legal so we should consider it"? He is trying to get UMs plans scuttled.



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